Thank you for the Wolf Mission Timer
By
10101,
Posted on: 2005-02-22 21:32 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Hah! I already had that one figured out!
*mumbles something about getting his post count up* 
[ QUOTE ]
For the people that think this is going to stop the powerleveling, the tells, or the low levels in PI,it's not. The basic fact remains; as long as there is Side Kicking, there will be powerleveling. Now if you want to make a case to remove that, there is also bad news; As long as teams with different levels can get xp, there will be power leveling
I couldn't give a rats butt if people want to powerlevel their characters. They are morons for decreasing the time they get to actually play their characters dramatically, for missing content (later to whine about how little content there is like complete hypocrits of course), and for the idiotic notion that having a high level character *means* anything to anyone else. I have news for the cretin crowd that PLs regularly - I could care less that you have a high level character. I am spending my time *enjoying playing the game* while you enjoy [Censored] yourself out of gameplay.
Putting timers on missions like the Wolf one that have been blatantly abused is a great move. I hope they keep making changes to encourage people to actually PLAY the game not stand around like the village idiot in some mision with their thumbs up their butts getting progressively stupider. If you want a reason that most people's pickup group experiences are so bad - here's the main culprit: people who get something for free without earning it, without learning from it, and without appreciating it. PLing only serves to breed reallly sh***y players.
WHat I *DO* care about though is the endless spam for influence (because they got PLed and can't afford their Enhancements or are just too effing lazy to actually earn it themselves because it all seems like so much effort after being PLed), and the endless spam trying to find other talentless cretins who are willing to act as a bridge in some stupidass PLing session.
Every minute you spend getting PLed represents some much longer period of time - probably hours in some cases - where you can't play your character. When you get to 50, there is basically *nothing* worth doing, so rushing to 50 by being PLed is the choice of idiots.
And before someone suggests it, its not jealousy. I have a level 40 Scrapper right now, and a level 35 Illusion/Rad controller, plus another 100 levels worth of alts (and probably 50 more levels of deleted alts). If I really wanted a level 50 by now I could *easily* have had it. I just don't see the need to rush, because I like my characters and the day the retire is going to be a sad one. I may end up deleting and rerolling some in fact, although I expect COV will be out by then.
This really reminds me of drug and alcohol prohibition. The law makes changes, people figure a way around them, and still do what they want to do.
There always has been, always will be drugs, guns crime, and prostitution. No matter what the establishment does to try and stop these things, they will never eradicate them completely. Same as PLing. People do what they want to do, regardless of how loud the mewling PL whiners cry their eyes out. Time the missions people use, I'll herd another mission. Hell, I don't even need them to stack to herd and kill mass mobs.
The devs have made a bad decision here. Minus 5 stars for their short-sightedness.
I wonder if they ever thought that the reason people PL is because the game is a tough grind at 30+. Maybe if the rewards for playing "the way we say!" were more substantial, the PLing will go down.
TomTrompinski, I have a prediction too:
We will PL, we will find a way, and the only reason it "hurts" other players is because the whiners whine, and voila! A timed AV mission.
Maybe if the busy bodies would play their own game instead of mine, no one would feel the hammerfist of the devs on their game.
Whiners, you brought any failer of this mission due to time constraints on yourselves. Maybe I won't herd the wolf mission, ok! I'll herd another.
I can't wait to see the PL crybabies whine when they miss an accolade because of a situation they completely are responsible for.
I think people misunderstand why developers interfere and make changes. I could care less how fast someone earns influence. But I am concerned when someone is doing somethingg "unfun" in order to gain levels quickly and thereby bypassing other, more interesting content. Admittedly, "fun" and "unfun" are completely subjective, so people can disagree.
[ QUOTE ]
I think people misunderstand why developers interfere and make changes. I could care less how fast someone earns influence. But I am concerned when someone is doing somethingg "unfun" in order to gain levels quickly and thereby bypassing other, more interesting content. Admittedly, "fun" and "unfun" are completely subjective, so people can disagree.
[/ QUOTE ]
That makes sense...
Btw Statesman: Go. Here. Please.
[ QUOTE ]
I think people misunderstand why developers interfere and make changes. I could care less how fast someone earns influence. But I am concerned when someone is doing somethingg "unfun" in order to gain levels quickly and thereby bypassing other, more interesting content. Admittedly, "fun" and "unfun" are completely subjective, so people can disagree.
[/ QUOTE ]
What about the people who ENJOY herding wolves? I've ran a few and had a blast doing it, much bigger rush than anything else in this game including the AV fights.
[ QUOTE ]
I think people misunderstand why developers interfere and make changes. I could care less how fast someone earns influence. But I am concerned when someone is doing somethingg "unfun" in order to gain levels quickly and thereby bypassing other, more interesting content. Admittedly, "fun" and "unfun" are completely subjective, so people can disagree.
[/ QUOTE ]
Seriously? Ohhh wait that's right i have a level 50 who's seen "almost" everything in the game in her seven hundred and some odd hours. If i had to go through it all again, States, i can honestly say you wouldn't have my money right now.
I don't know if this is an attempt to keep people playing the game longer, but i can tell you the only reason i'm still paying my 15 bucks a month is for PvP and CoV...and that's reason enough to get another character to a higher level to assist my SG with a needed powerset.
Sorry, not buying this evening. Well i couldn't buy anyhow seeing that i dont have any influence because of the well thought out and internally tested WL p/ling. 
I think people misunderstand why developers interfere and make changes. I could care less how fast someone earns influence. But I am concerned when someone is doing somethingg "unfun" in order to gain levels quickly and thereby bypassing other, more interesting content. Admittedly, "fun" and "unfun" are completely subjective, so people can disagree.
Yep because fighting the same group of mobs over and over doing the same missions is just SO FUN
Statesman, perhaps you could host your avatar somewhere other then Photobucket?
[ QUOTE ]
But I am concerned when someone is doing somethingg "unfun" in order to gain levels quickly and thereby bypassing other, more interesting content. Admittedly, "fun" and "unfun" are completely subjective, so people can disagree.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have to ask this question also.
Since we are the ones paying to play this game and you, hypothetically speaking, work for us, please give us a better reason for changing something like this.
You telling us what's "fun" and what content we should see just doesn't sit right in my stomach. 
[ QUOTE ]
This really reminds me of drug and alcohol prohibition. The law makes changes, people figure a way around them, and still do what they want to do.
There always has been, always will be drugs, guns crime, and prostitution. No matter what the establishment does to try and stop these things, they will never eradicate them completely. Same as PLing. People do what they want to do, regardless of how loud the mewling PL whiners cry their eyes out. Time the missions people use, I'll herd another mission. Hell, I don't even need them to stack to herd and kill mass mobs.
The devs have made a bad decision here. Minus 5 stars for their short-sightedness.
I wonder if they ever thought that the reason people PL is because the game is a tough grind at 30+. Maybe if the rewards for playing "the way we say!" were more substantial, the PLing will go down.
TomTrompinski, I have a prediction too:
We will PL, we will find a way, and the only reason it "hurts" other players is because the whiners whine, and voila! A timed AV mission.
Maybe if the busy bodies would play their own game instead of mine, no one would feel the hammerfist of the devs on their game.
Whiners, you brought any failer of this mission due to time constraints on yourselves. Maybe I won't herd the wolf mission, ok! I'll herd another.
I can't wait to see the PL crybabies whine when they miss an accolade because of a situation they completely are responsible for.
[/ QUOTE ]
Whiners? Someone get this baby a bottle. The people have spoken, and they told you to STHU. Of course you won't, you'll cry like a stuck pig. But that's ok, really.
The fact that you bring up legalized drinking and prohibition just shows that you're so far from a clue, the light from clue won't reach you for 100 years.
Enjoy!
I could care less if people did wolf herding, and I feel for people that this change will be a pain for (glowies + AV in 1 hour sounds painful to me). I feel for the people who actually enjoyed running this sort of thing, though, having done it a couple of times I cannot imagine it being enjoyable in a million years.
But I don't have no sympathy for anyone complaining that they lost their easy way to PL an alt for PvP.
It's just not that hard to level alts.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
[ QUOTE ]
I have to ask this question also.
Since we are the ones paying to play this game and you, hypothetically speaking, work for us, please give us a better reason for changing something like this.
You telling us what's "fun" and what content we should see just doesn't sit right in my stomach.
[/ QUOTE ]
Uhhh. You know, he has the longevity of the game to worry about. Uninteresting ways to gain boatloads of XP are bad for the game. Especially with PvP elements on the way.
Really frentic, hard and exciting ways to gain even boatloads of XP are fine. Risk and reward.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
I think you may have Statesman a little bit wrong. As the lead designer he has this vision of the game as he sees it. He has made a package, put it all together, and put in things that he thinks people will enjoy.
There is just one problem with this model, us. We are a vast and different audience, we do things well weird, we find fun in different things, we enjoy somethings that can make other people just scratch their heads. This is not to say that we are wrong, or he is wrong. Just try to imagine Statesman as the proud parent hiding behind the door on christmas day. He sees us opening the boxes he has laid out, and enjoying our presents, but wants us to get to the box two over, you know the one with the really neat present in it, maybe a puppy. He sees his goal is to direct us to that box, but anyone who has seen a really young child on christmas morning has seen sometimes they have more fun with the box. He isnt mad that we are having fun with the box, but boy would he like us to see what is in that other package.
Add a flag to certain missions so that they cannot be reset. The state of the mission (what glowies and mobs are left) is saved whether or not you switch missions or log out. Boom! No more saving those special missions for farming (Nem. staff) or herding (wolves).
Just a thought.
[ QUOTE ]
I think people misunderstand why developers interfere and make changes. I could care less how fast someone earns influence. But I am concerned when someone is doing somethingg "unfun" in order to gain levels quickly and thereby bypassing other, more interesting content. Admittedly, "fun" and "unfun" are completely subjective, so people can disagree.
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL, ah so since you have deemed it unfun then everyone must find it unfun as well. Now I have no problem if you fixed the mission because of the PL'ing and people were speeding their alts through the low levels. I'll just move on and if I feel the need PL alts on a different mission.
Don't try to cover it up with a "Gee this is an "unfun" activity". How does adding a timer make it fun? For that matter is it simply implausible that someone may find something fun that you don't?
Like I said, fix it or don't, doesn't bother me either way, but don't be disingenuous about it. 
[ QUOTE ]
Really frentic, hard and exciting ways to gain even boatloads of XP are fine. Risk and reward.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing you never ran the wolf mission did you? This is the only mission I've been on that actually was a challange and has caused me to die 
. These missions are one hell of a rush 
So uh..doing the same wolf mission again and again is heroic then?
if ppl want to power lvel, who cares?!!! play your game, let others play theirs! it was a fun aspect of the game, and i think it's a mistake to kill it. little by little the game is being whittled away into nothingness...
For all the ppl saying the 1 hour timer for this mission will make it too hard because of the AV really need to try the mission. I'm a lvl 48 with my mission diff maxed and I still had over 30 mins to spare when I was done. I had 3 other ppl wiht me when I did the mission so you don't need a real big team. The glowies are all real easy to find so it's not like you have to really look for them or anything. Will you be able to solo this mission in an hour? Probably not but the devs don't think we should be able to solo an AV anyway so they killed 2 birds with one stone.
States, never really addressed ya before, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and impart to ya a rule of mine, you may take it for what it's worth (and believe me I do understand that you're doing what you can here, and in my opinion you're doing an admirable job of it, still...):
Any time you attempt to save people from their own stupidity (usually by creating some sort of directive or law) you are invariably engaging in a losing battle. Human stupidity will inevitably win out in the end.
As granted "stupidity" is as subjective as the terms "fun" and "unfun", swap the words out if you like, the meaning is the same: People will do as they wish, regardless.
Seat belt laws, drug laws, prohibilition... I guess it's hard for people to imagine this country without 'em, but at the same time they are severely imperfect ways that can never hope to "solve" the problem they were forged to combat.
In this particular case, the target group is "those who would bypass parts of the game they might (key word is 'might' here) otherwise find fun", and they are in a relative minority, I think, not just for reasons of philosophy, but often just for time constraints, or an extreme distaste for doing the same thing over and over and over again, regardless of the reward.
The most important thing to remember here, I believe is, just how much energy you expend addressing a problem with this minority, and more importantly: in so doing, are you endangering the "fun" of the rest of the players?
I suppose time will tell the outcome with this timer thing on the wolf mission.
The main reason that people powerlevel is that the game forces us to be become level whores. I have been playing the game for almost a year, as a casual gamer, and the game really hasn't changed that much. Everything that they have added is directly related to levels, the only reason to play the game is to level up. That problem, yes its a problem, can be hung squarely in the devs closet. If there was something to do that was special and fun at certain levels, and only those levels it would slow down PLing, but the only thing to do when you level up is get new enhancement slots or a new power. There is no reason for anyone to sit around and grind away if there is an alternative, you don't really miss much, just cookie cutter missions and perhaps a badge but exemplaring(sp?) took care of the missed badge thing. If the devs took the time to make the game fun at all levels then I believe that most people would play the game instead of PL. I also believe that there are a certain segment of the gamers that will PL however they can and there is nothing they, the devs, can do about it.
Before anyone tells me to play a different game, I would like to point out that I love this game. It has, in my opinion, a tremendous amount of potential that is still untapped.
[ QUOTE ]
Statesman, perhaps you could host your avatar somewhere other then Photobucket?
[/ QUOTE ]
And people laughed at me when I said Statesman Avatar as been nerfed!
[ QUOTE ]
If there was something to do that was special and fun at certain levels, and only those levels it would slow down PLing...
[/ QUOTE ]
The flaw in this reasoning is that the whole philsophy of PLing is that the player doing it cares little for anyhting else but levels. Thus the prospective PLer will bypass "special and fun somethings to do" at any level.
Though I think any idea to add more 'special and fun things to do' is admirable and I like it, in fact, I doubt this would curb PLing in any way. This is the way they like to play, you're not gonna change that by adding stuff they already don't care about.
I notice we have nearly identical post counts.
One more thing, I like the idea of a time limit for the first part of the mission, the wolves, but after that, the timer goes away and you can deal with Shadowhunter at your leisure.
But you'd have to adjust it to where if that mission is reset you don't have that first part with the wolves and the timer.
That might just be too complicated though, but I like the idea.