Thank you for the Wolf Mission Timer
By
10101,
Posted on: 2005-02-22 21:32 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
In my opinion, of course...
Swarms of inferior opponents are typically more exciting/entertaining than a single worthy adversary. There a places we can find this level of excitement through all stages of the game, but at 45+ we're running out of options.
If it were my decision, a simple mirror image of Dark Astoria would be placed somewhere with a lvl 40-something level restriction, & fill it with the old non-stunning wolves. Let those who enjoy something do it, let those who don't avoid it. Hell, add the option to start there in the "skip tutorial" prompt.
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True gamers don't care about getting levels. You level fast enough as it is in this game.
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Idioteraser... you made a great many presumptious and idiotic comments ... but I think this one gets to me the most. Nozybida replied line by line to your drivel in a most appropriate fashion. That has freed me to expound upon the asinine nature of this most ignorant comment.
TRUE GAMERS!?! What 133t-ist BS are you trying to spew? I am 28 years old, and have been gaming for 20 of those. I have played in RPG's and GM'd RPG's for a great many years. A great many "True Gamers" are very interested in leveling or gaining xp or otherwise generally improving their character. That is, after all, part of the GAME. You may not care about levels, but I guarantee you that you do NOT speak for me or my friends. You have joined the bandwagon of jealous whiners that want to make sure that no one has fun doing anything that you don't want to, or cannot, do.
Now, as for Statesman:
Yes, what is fun and unfun is SUBJECTIVE. Perhaps you should pay attention to the folks who like to level, or who like to herd, or perhaps to the folks that don't whine and complain about the sour grapes they cannot have.
Me? I have Fire/Fire tank well equipped to herd... but I really am not overly fond of wolf herding. Been there, tried it, kinda found it to be so-so. However, I see no reason why others that enjoy it should not be free to do so. Why must you screw with things which are not broken? You've removed something that many players consider to be a feature, or rite of passage. You have further complicated the situation for the story fanatic who is not able to whip Shadowhunter in the paltry time alloted. I do not like timed missions anyway... but I HATE stealth timed missions... which is what the wolf mission from Kemen has become.
Face it Devs and whiners: Some folks really get into story, some folks really get into power gaming, and some folks (like me) enjoy both. Let people play the game, Statesman. Guess what.. I have power leveled alts for friends of mine... with one of my portal Nemesis missions. ~gasp~ That's right.. my PL tool of choice is Nemesis or occasionally the Siege mission. I don't use the wolves. And yet, I can still see that what you have done to the Wolf missions is... well... high-handed, presumptious, and controlling. It may be your game, States, but I guarantee that you need MY money to keep it going. And by my money, I mean the fees of all your players...which will ALWAYS include people who prefer hack and slash to your content. Please just accept that.
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Pwnt and Pwnt.
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I think people misunderstand why developers interfere and make changes. I could care less how fast someone earns influence. But I am concerned when someone is doing somethingg "unfun" in order to gain levels quickly and thereby bypassing other, more interesting content. Admittedly, "fun" and "unfun" are completely subjective, so people can disagree.
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Man, i'm thankful your here to tell me whats fun and what isn't. I must be way off base, cause I accually belive i had a good time in the wolf groups i got into. Silly me.
And to belive i was missing out on content when i was in groups... and here all this time i belived i ran out of missions. Obviously i was wrong, and my contacts were just playing hard to get. (I know Indego was hot for me. LoL)
And, i'm really really glad that i'm now forced to level up all my alts from here on out with the same contect and missions and story archs and TFs. i mean, since your working on PvP right now, i'm pretty sure extra content won't be added until issue 5.. and at the rate of release, that's what, 4 months away? (i'm being generious with 4. i'm beating more on 5 or 6 personaly... DOH, did i type that out loud?)
So for the next few months my choices for fun are partaking in PvP, which, for the most part i suck at and have never really like... AND RERUNNING all my old missions with my new alts?
Can you do me a favor and give me a list of FUN, and UNFUN activites so i don't make this mistake in the future? I'd really hate to think i might waste my time and energy on activities that aren't fun, and not even know it... so i'd appreacite your help in this reguard.
KingSnake.
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Can you forward a copy of this list to me when you get it? I obviously have been participating in these "unfun" activities as well.
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Great, now a mission with an AV is timed...
Oh, let's not forget you need to defeat shadowhunter to get your Dimensional Warder badge.
Oh, don't forget you need the Dimensional Warder badge to get the Portal Jockey Accolade.
Gee, thanks for making it so if my team screws up this mission I get screwed out of a great accolade.
Way to go, Devs! 
*Edit: BTW, this has stopped nothing. People will just herd Dreck's mission instead. Watch.
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I don't see how this will lock you out of the badge. I've done this mission at least 6 times because so many people in my SG are around the same level and have had it. Last night I got it and it was timed. I don't think it was an hour, I think it was maybe 90 minutes. Either way, my team completed the mission with 20 or 30 minutes to spare.
If I've been in this mission 6 times, I can't imagine it's going to be that hard for other people to find an opportunity to do this mission more than once.
~Missi
http://tinyurl.com/yhy333s
Miss Informed in 2016! She can't be worse than all those other guys!
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You can debate theory all you want, but the results are going to be the same--80% of the servers' populations will suffer because 20% want to take the easy way out.
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That math adds up to 100%, yet this change had no effect on me. I got the timed mission and my team completed it successfully. My team had 5 people, including me. That means that they also successfully "arrested" Shadowhunter and will have that count towards the dimensional warder badge. So really, it had no effect on them, either. It also had no effect on anyone who had already complete the mission.
I don't see how this is going to cause 80% of the population of CoH to suffer. Please explain how you came by your results.
~Missi
http://tinyurl.com/yhy333s
Miss Informed in 2016! She can't be worse than all those other guys!
The Portal Wolves never counted for a badge.
Shadowhunter is one of the AVs that people fight over a dozen times like Tyrant.
Just make reset missions not give you xp for the defeated mobs.
For the naysayers just make the mission not reset until you had been logged off for ten minutes. It is unheroic to keep doing the same enemy encounter in the same location over and over again.
Wrong more Peacebringer and Warshade story arcs will be in issue 4. New temp powers and mission art will be added to issue 4.
But then powerlevlers never cared about those things.
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And, i'm really really glad that i'm now forced to level up all my alts from here on out with the same contect and missions and story archs and TFs.
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One mission was changed. That still leaves you plenty of ways to PL your alts. I don't know what level your main Hero is, so you may end up redoing some missions. But are you saying that doing the same wolf mission over and over and over for XP is somehow different that redoing OTHER missions for XP?
You can PL your alts in sewers, on monster island, in any AV missions. It's a little more work, but it's done by people every day.
My friend started an alt when my main was nearly 40. Now we're both 49. He didn't PL his alt in wolf missions, but he sure found a way to do it. I'd be surprised if other people aren't as creative.
~Missi
http://tinyurl.com/yhy333s
Miss Informed in 2016! She can't be worse than all those other guys!
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You can PL your alts in sewers, on monster island, in any AV missions. It's a little more work, but it's done by people every day.
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Well thats kind of my point, since this did nothing against power leveling, why change it? Even if the masses arent harmed by the change, if it harms one persons ability to complete this mission, then why make the change?
Statesman said it is to direct people to more fun content, but will it have that effect? Most people say no. You want to direct people to more fun content, increase the draw of that content.
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Uhhh. You know, he has the longevity of the game to worry about. Uninteresting ways to gain boatloads of XP are bad for the game. Especially with PvP elements on the way.
Really frentic, hard and exciting ways to gain even boatloads of XP are fine. Risk and reward.
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I had a wolf mission and tried to herd it (not farm it) in this regard: "Hey, guys, let's herd all the wolves here, blow them up with one nova, then finish the mission. Sound fun?"
Guess what?
It was really fun and really freakin' hard. Our blaster didn't have his inferno fully slotted and we kept dying. Must have had 8 or 9 deaths. We had a bubbler, controller, scrapper, tank, you name it.
Herding wolves was frenetic, hard, and exciting.
It was so hard, in fact, that I never did it successfully and I left with debt, not XP. Even the scrapper who was too low for the mission and was just supposed to "hide" would come out when we were all dying...and he'd die too.
Now, I suppose if I had farmed (not herded) that mission, after a while it would have gotten boring. And when that happened I would have stopped. Ie., why not do a fun mission a few times?
I also portal farmed once about 6 months ago and that was the coolest thing ever! I would exemplar (i.e., no XP) to do it again.
When was the last time you did a mission with a team of 8 on auto-healing aura at the top of a temple in Oranbega and surrounded by 1,000 mobs trying to claw their way past each other up the stairs to get you?
And, honestly, would you describe the current missions as "Really frentic [sic], hard and exciting?"
Defeat X. Defeat X again. Defeat Y. ("Oh, goodie, Y, this will be totally different from Defeating X.")
Go to Cave and Defeat All. Or find a glowie then defeat all. Run around Oranbega looking for last stupid glowie or hidden mob.
Over and over and over.
Or, you could do a Task Force, which consists of doing those same repetitive missions over and over and over non-stop for 8 hours, except at the end you get to fight an AV or something. But by then, half your team has left, and you're not having any fun anymore.
How many Task Forces have you done that you would describe as frenetic, hard, and exciting? Zero, or possibly one?
And that is the ultimate content of the game.
I have done the trials and they are hard and can be frenetic or exciting. (Like kill 150 Rikti, yeah, let me put on my party hat.) But that is because trials are short. Not long, boring, and repetitive...like Task Forces. Or mission farming.
I had a mission once that was "Go to Science Fiction Convention" and I was all excited. But it turned out to be in a run-down warehouse in Crey's Folly in the middle of sewage. As soon as I clicked on the door, the mission window changed to "Defeat all villains (Rikti)".
Um, yeah. So much for the convention.
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Where you replying to me? Okay then, let's knock these out one by one shall we.
You want to know what is silly? Complaining about lack of content when you bypass it to sell these [censored] powerleved alts on ebay.
I do think the lower level content is a bit thin, but I wasn't so much complaining about the content. In fact the entire reason I PL'ed my controller was to see the newly added content.
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Funny you can get to the new content without powerleveleing you [censored].
Leveling to 20 only takes 20 hours if you are good at the game.
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Guess what people powerlevel to sell characters.
Not I, and I suspect a lot of others like me.
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Wrong. Just look at the websites of the people that sell characters. It's a business. They are responible for most of the powerleveling. Why would someone have two accounts for themseleves on two computers?
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If you don't want to play the content which is the missions, tfs, trials then don't play the game.
I've finished every Trial, every TF except the Positron one and the final Striga one, have every arc souvenir but one, have every mission badge, have all the exploration and history badges, completed my respec missions, completed about 75% of my defeat badges, have all the special event badges. Sorry, but I don't think this applies to me either.
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Then stop saying you need to powerlevel. If you play the game as it was designed then you don't powerlevel.
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That is definitely questionable. Levels is definitely a motivating force behind the design of this game. It is the only real way of marking progress. And there are definite patches of the game where this leveling slows down. Early mid 20's (depending on build), late 30's, late 40's, are all areas where the grind really sets in.
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Grind is a state of mind. Those areas can be gotten by in a flash if you don't have the state of mind that you are just there to be there and not to have fun.
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And how the hell can you run out of missions nowadays?
LOL
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You didn't answer the question jackass. I only run out of missions when I don't want to advance fast and want my debt maxxed out 100% of the time.
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There seems to be a tendency in this game to stack drawbacks - tanker and Kheldian design come immediately to mind. Now it's extended to wolf missions. "You get this beneft, so you'll get this penalty, and this penalty, and this penalty." Eventually, the idea of risk vs. reward gets skewed and people feel punished for trying to play the game.
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I've noticed this tendency too, and find it very annoying. Statesman says that the new change is intended to make it so that less people will do rewarding but unfun things by making one of the unfun but rewarding things less rewarding. Taking that at face value, it still comes down to the fact that some people farmed the wolf missions and as a result of that the developers made a change that, potentially, impacts everyone negatively. Once again we see the phenomenon of the few ruining somethign for the many. I think that, at base, a few people finding some weird tricks and using them over and over is responsible for a lot of this Benefit-penalty-penalty-penalty-penalty business.
I'd like to see solutions that make less people do unfun behavior but don't put additional penalties on the people who never engaged in the unfun behavior in the first place. Unfortunately, sometimes that simply isn't possible. With mission, though, maybe it is. AS it stands, each character can have no more then 3 missions at a time anyway. What if, in addition to tracking the missions that characters had while the character is offline, the game also tracked the number of mobs left alive in the mission when you last visited. Let's get a tiny bit more sophisticated and track the number of minions/lieutenants/bosses/AVs separately for each mission so that, we may not get the exact mobs right, but we can get the mobs approximately correct when you go back in. We could even recall the number of people that was in the team for the mission last so that it still adjusts the mobs based on team size. The upshot is that if you go into the mission after logging out or resetting the mission it doesn't really reset the mission. The mobs may get repositioned slightly, but there won't be any more mobs, so you can't farm missions. You can't behave in "unfun" behavior in this way. Yet, any benefits (badges, killing AVs, taking your time, doing the mission with a team of friends who don't all happen to be on when you get it, all of that is still possible.
Sounds reasonable?
Infinity:
Ellen, 50 MA/Inv Scr
February Night, 14 Ice/Ice Blstr
Guardian:
SilverSwordmaid, 29 Kat/Rgn Scr
Vicious Killer, 33 Emp/Enrgy Def
Electromagness, 40 Rad/Rad Def
Sense of Humor, 50 Fire/En Tank
Virtue:
Kickfest, 50 MA/SR Scr
Freedom:
Glorious Ending, 29 EM/DA Bru
Nozy's replies were complete and utter crap.
A true gamer is one interested in playing a game as it is meant to be played. They aren't interested in levels, xp or tables. They want to play the game to have fun and play the game as it is meant to be played.
People who care about levels are the ones that suck at the game so much they have to cheat to advance.
If you like to level play the game instead of others get xp for you.
If you like to herd go to Perez or Faultline when you are level 30. No one will care if you herd thousands of gray mobs.
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P.S. There are other missions that can and are being herded btw. Just as good as wolves. Hate to break your heart, but there is no reason you can't enjoy the game anyways. Herders aren't hurting you at all. Looks like a good compromise the devs made.
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You're sure about that? This has been demonstraitably proven throughout the MMORPG genre's history as false.
Herders hit the cap first. What do they do? Ask for high level content. Since there's a finite number of developer hours they can either ignore those people, which is a bad business practice, or devote hours to them which is less hours from people who didn't take the cheap route out.
And before you bring up the "But you get that content, too" argument two things. First, they skip the content and just cheat their way up again to repeat the cycle. Second, time and again in pretty much every MMORPG I've played (and it's hard to name one I haven't played) loads of content, some of the best content, comes out for the lower to middle levels where the developers have had time to figure out what is and isn't reasonably possible for the players to do and push the players to the limit.
Want proof of that? I can do it in 5 words:
Shadow Shard vs. Striga Isle.
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You didn't answer the question jackass.
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Wow, what a great argument, I mean what can someone really say to that? 
Like I said, I've had at least 3 times that I've had a set of contacts telling me to go see such and such, and such and such telling me to come back later.
Anyway, as any of that relates to wolf herding, does anyone really think the PL problem has been solved? Certainly I doubt any will herd wolfs anymore, good job there.
You have old story arcs you didn't finish which are preventing you from getting new ones.
Also you have had to have died a ton.
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There seems to be a tendency in this game to stack drawbacks - tanker and Kheldian design come immediately to mind. Now it's extended to wolf missions. "You get this beneft, so you'll get this penalty, and this penalty, and this penalty." Eventually, the idea of risk vs. reward gets skewed and people feel punished for trying to play the game.
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I've noticed this tendency too, and find it very annoying. Statesman says that the new change is intended to make it so that less people will do rewarding but unfun things by making one of the unfun but rewarding things less rewarding. Taking that at face value, it still comes down to the fact that some people farmed the wolf missions and as a result of that the developers made a change that, potentially, impacts everyone negatively. Once again we see the phenomenon of the few ruining somethign for the many. I think that, at base, a few people finding some weird tricks and using them over and over is responsible for a lot of this Benefit-penalty-penalty-penalty-penalty business.
I'd like to see solutions that make less people do unfun behavior but don't put additional penalties on the people who never engaged in the unfun behavior in the first place. Unfortunately, sometimes that simply isn't possible. With mission, though, maybe it is. AS it stands, each character can have no more then 3 missions at a time anyway. What if, in addition to tracking the missions that characters had while the character is offline, the game also tracked the number of mobs left alive in the mission when you last visited. Let's get a tiny bit more sophisticated and track the number of minions/lieutenants/bosses/AVs separately for each mission so that, we may not get the exact mobs right, but we can get the mobs approximately correct when you go back in. We could even recall the number of people that was in the team for the mission last so that it still adjusts the mobs based on team size. The upshot is that if you go into the mission after logging out or resetting the mission it doesn't really reset the mission. The mobs may get repositioned slightly, but there won't be any more mobs, so you can't farm missions. You can't behave in "unfun" behavior in this way. Yet, any benefits (badges, killing AVs, taking your time, doing the mission with a team of friends who don't all happen to be on when you get it, all of that is still possible.
Sounds reasonable?
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H, this is very similar to a suggestion I posted yesterday in the Suggestions Forum -- saving mission status . I think it has to apply to glowie status as well, since those are farmable missions, too.
Note: All of this is proposed given that the devs feel that mission farming is a problem. I make no claims as to my personal opinions on farming and don't wish to enter that debate, I merely want to try to offer another solution to the farming "problem" which might be less of a penalty for everyone else playing the game "properly" (according to devs).
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You have old story arcs you didn't finish which are preventing you from getting new ones.
Also you have had to have died a ton.
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Your name is excellent.. for you are both an Idiot and you rub me the wrong way.
I am gonna go out on a limb here and assume that you were NOT sitting in Nozybida's room or apartment when his contacts turned him down. As such, you DO NOT KNOW the circumstances of his statements, and neither do I. However, I can tell you that there were times and levels between 1 and 50 when I ran out of content just as there were times when I leveled past content that I was unable to experience. I did not "die a ton" personally. I actually did not get the 2nd and 3rd debt badges until my mid- and upper-forties when I tanked Mother Mayhem for several groups of players. We defeated her many times, and, at the same time, she gave me ample opportunity to utilize Rise of the Phoenix.
In other words, yes, it is possible to run out of content at a few places in the game even when you are completing missions and story arcs.
Face it, Idiot: Your arguments are not cogent, and you must resort to name-calling when the thin veneer of legitimacy is stripped away from your comments.
Didn't see your solution before. It's very similar to my own, but I think saving the mission map and positions of everything as well as what it was, basically saving the whole status of the mission as you suggest, might result in too much data. Imagine doing that for all three missions on all characters of an account for all accounts in the game. That's an awful lot of memory.
Infinity:
Ellen, 50 MA/Inv Scr
February Night, 14 Ice/Ice Blstr
Guardian:
SilverSwordmaid, 29 Kat/Rgn Scr
Vicious Killer, 33 Emp/Enrgy Def
Electromagness, 40 Rad/Rad Def
Sense of Humor, 50 Fire/En Tank
Virtue:
Kickfest, 50 MA/SR Scr
Freedom:
Glorious Ending, 29 EM/DA Bru
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If it isn't timed, you can "repeat" the mission as much as you want. The game engine can't tell how many times you "started" the mission. Only how many times you've completed it.
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If the system carries enough bitfields on a player to track dozens of "how many clockwork gears have you killed" type integers, it can certainly carry a "how many times has this mission been reset" integer. The coding is trivial.
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It doesn't track that you killed one *particular" wolf, it just tracks numbers. Only specific bagdges (after completing missions, BTW) happen for specific named mobs.
The biggest reason they can't do it another way is disconnects. When you disconnect, all of your mission in play reset (but timed ones keep counting down.)
This really was the only way to keep farming down.
Still here, even after all this time!
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Wrong more Peacebringer and Warshade story arcs will be in issue 4. New temp powers and mission art will be added to issue 4.
But then powerlevlers never cared about those things.
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Wrong. I care about those things a lot. I'm a powerleveler.
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Nozy's replies were complete and utter crap.
A true gamer is one interested in playing a game as it is meant to be played. They aren't interested in levels, xp or tables. They want to play the game to have fun and play the game as it is meant to be played.
People who care about levels are the ones that suck at the game so much they have to cheat to advance.
If you like to level play the game instead of others get xp for you.
If you like to herd go to Perez or Faultline when you are level 30. No one will care if you herd thousands of gray mobs.
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"True Gamer".
Give me a break. As someone has already stated in this thread, all you 1337 d00ds out there who are "true gamers" can suck a lemon. I've been playing video games for 16 years, and I don't need your BS about "True Gamers". Your constant cursing and repetitive replies have most likely invalidated you to everyone but those like you in this thread.
You've got alot of nerve to try and tell people how they should play the game they're paying for just like you. Get a grip pal, mind your own business, and go "true game".
One more added to my ignore list.
I'm putting this "idiot" on ignore as well. He doesn't know anything about gaming.
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Wrong more Peacebringer and Warshade story arcs will be in issue 4. New temp powers and mission art will be added to issue 4.
But then powerlevlers never cared about those things.
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Oh, great. WarShade and Peacebringer story arches. (I'd beat on one if your lucky.) And new art? *GASP* well in that case, i'm ready to roll my 10th alt and finish the Bonefire quest so i can see the pretty new art in the mission!!!!
Temp Powers? Oh gooide.
Let me lay it out for you kid/dude/oldtimer/whatever.
I've played since release. I've lvl'ed to 50 in 7 months, i've played well over 700 hours, and i have...
Completed 30+ story archs.
Found 100+ badges
Ran all but, maybe 2 taskforces.
Gotten all but, 2 Accolades. (I'm missing Vanguard and Archmage)
Completed EVERY trial. (Hollows, TV, Eden, and Sewer.)
Completed straga. Ran it's TF's.
Completed the Hollows.
Ran evey mission in the Shadow Shard...
Been a memeber of 3 Hammi Raids, all victories.
Taken part in Both Sever Wide Evens, (Halloween, Winter Loards)
Defeated every AV in the GAME, maybe twice by now.
And Level up an WarShade to 27 (who did my Straga island stuff.) till i couldn't take it anymore because he was a debt magnent and i wanted to rip my hair out..
Formed 2 SuperGroups, and am now in the process of RPing, YES RP'ING a superhero Duo with my brother, who i might i add i talked into playing this game with me.
There is very few, IF ANY content i haven't seen/done in this game. I love this game, but for an MMO it's pretty short...
Now basically i'm into Toon Building. I've ran through a few dozen alts looking for one that catchs my attation like Zero did, and, i think i may have finilly found one. (The Duo partener ship with my brother has breathed new life into this game.) But NOW, i no longer have the option of PLing me and him PAST crap we've already done, and in my case, 5 or 6 times now, to a point in the game where it's more intresting. (I've only been through my late 30's to 50 once.) BUT NO, it apperently ISN'T fun (wish someone would have told me that...) and thus, i'm now force to level my alt with the same old contant i've had the last 5 times i've done it... and the only prospect i have for NEW conten with my NON epic Alt is new ARTWORK AND TEMPEROY POWERS...
I'm bubbling over with antapisation..
KingSnake.
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
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True gamers don't care about getting levels. You level fast enough as it is in this game.
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Idioteraser... you made a great many presumptious and idiotic comments ... but I think this one gets to me the most. Nozybida replied line by line to your drivel in a most appropriate fashion. That has freed me to expound upon the asinine nature of this most ignorant comment.
TRUE GAMERS!?! What 133t-ist BS are you trying to spew? I am 28 years old, and have been gaming for 20 of those. I have played in RPG's and GM'd RPG's for a great many years. A great many "True Gamers" are very interested in leveling or gaining xp or otherwise generally improving their character. That is, after all, part of the GAME. You may not care about levels, but I guarantee you that you do NOT speak for me or my friends. You have joined the bandwagon of jealous whiners that want to make sure that no one has fun doing anything that you don't want to, or cannot, do.
Now, as for Statesman:
Yes, what is fun and unfun is SUBJECTIVE. Perhaps you should pay attention to the folks who like to level, or who like to herd, or perhaps to the folks that don't whine and complain about the sour grapes they cannot have.
Me? I have Fire/Fire tank well equipped to herd... but I really am not overly fond of wolf herding. Been there, tried it, kinda found it to be so-so. However, I see no reason why others that enjoy it should not be free to do so. Why must you screw with things which are not broken? You've removed something that many players consider to be a feature, or rite of passage. You have further complicated the situation for the story fanatic who is not able to whip Shadowhunter in the paltry time alloted. I do not like timed missions anyway... but I HATE stealth timed missions... which is what the wolf mission from Kemen has become.
Face it Devs and whiners: Some folks really get into story, some folks really get into power gaming, and some folks (like me) enjoy both. Let people play the game, Statesman. Guess what.. I have power leveled alts for friends of mine... with one of my portal Nemesis missions. ~gasp~ That's right.. my PL tool of choice is Nemesis or occasionally the Siege mission. I don't use the wolves. And yet, I can still see that what you have done to the Wolf missions is... well... high-handed, presumptious, and controlling. It may be your game, States, but I guarantee that you need MY money to keep it going. And by my money, I mean the fees of all your players...which will ALWAYS include people who prefer hack and slash to your content. Please just accept that.