Thank you for the Wolf Mission Timer
By
10101,
Posted on: 2005-02-22 21:32 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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When States said the player should have the choice and "make their own decision" he wasn't talking about exploits or PLing and I'm sure he never intended playing one single missions over and over as part of that choice.
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I sure am glad we have all these people around to tell us what other people's thoughts really are.
BTW, doing a mission more than once is NOT an exploit, and for about the 3rd time, you'll NEVER stop power leveling.
All i can say is, don't let me join a team and see one of you whiners from the forums here running missions that belong to a higher level character in your group.
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Perhaps what you really mean is that you're a PL loving noob who would rather stand around soaking up other peoples xp than doing any real work; and then complain about lack of content for your lvl 50 noob who's never done anything but PL. And when someone has a good point for improving the game you have a fit because they are 'taking away your fun'.
You're like a street beggar who turns down a job offer because he has a right to stand on the street begging. Sure maybe you do have that right and maybe you feel that's what you want to do - so you should be able to do it. But in reality it's not good for anyone so if the city councel (or devs) make an ordnance that limits how much time you can spend begging instead of taking a job that was offered to you then great; good job devs.
I will say there are some exceptions the devs should consider. If someone is disabled or retarded they should be able to send in proof and then be allowed to PL and Farm to their hearts content. Maybe they should setup a group of Gimp servers. Instead of Justice, Triumph, etc... your servers could be called Wimpy, Gimpy, Softy.... and on those servers you can PL and farm all you like. No time limits, no mobs to fight before you pick your kora, no worries! 
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I think people misunderstand why developers interfere and make changes. I could care less how fast someone earns influence. But I am concerned when someone is doing somethingg "unfun" in order to gain levels quickly and thereby bypassing other, more interesting content. Admittedly, "fun" and "unfun" are completely subjective, so people can disagree.
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Well put. But how to explain it to the people who want to do these things and any attemp to "reel them in" is seen as taking away thier rights and limiting thier freedom!!! 
That's why I talk about the extrem of these sutuations. Like a "insta-level-up button". Why not put one in CoH? For some, clicking on a level up button might be more fun than actaully really playing the game, at least for the few hours (or minutes) you are in the game trying it. And if this were not a massive multiplayer game I'd say sure try "god mode" and try the insta-level-up button. But please dont let them do it in the game that I'm shareing.
You have a right.. yes a FREEDOM ... to say anything you want to. But then again you dont have a right to shout fire in a crowded theater. When I ask the devs to limit your freedom to farm, heard and PL it's not because I want you to have less fun; it's becuase your PLed characters adversly affect everyone in the game. When you play CoH, you affect everyone on your server.
Ah certain freakshow and crey missions in the 30-40 range have new maps.
You would know this if you did the content.
And maps are apperance not the content. Funny how many people when asking for content don't claim maps to be content.
Flashback has not been said to give xp or influence or anything for that matter. So if people do powerlevel and flashback they won't gain anything. Maybe debt removal will be only thing you get.
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I wasn't mischaracterizing anything. If I say in the same sentence "some people like iced tea and some people dont, so I am going to outlaw iced tea because no one likes it" Don't you think that sounds just a little odd? If the first statement is true then the second makes no sense.
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Well I brought up the fact that you said have no problem with what Statesman did, but you've gone to a lot of trouble to a) misrepresent him and b) insult him. You're reply was that it was no trouble at all really. I took your word at your face value. It's not an incident where you said two things in one sentence. You're entire sentence was "it was no trouble at all really." You're next sentences had nothing to do with you misrepresenting and insulting him. You went back to focusing on an issue about something you had no problem with.
The fact is this rampant powerlevelling effects more than the many people who can't stop doing it. This effects everyone else who is trying to form a pickup group, run a TF, etc.
The issue has never been "Statesman wants to remove fun from the game." That's not why he made the change. That's a straw man and you know it.
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LOL, well the change to the wolf mission has utterly failed in that respect.
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Well it's not meant to end all powerlevelling. This is a red herring.
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Again it is only a mischaracterization if you are a blind follower, taking the devs word as gospel without thinking about it for yourself.
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I'm neither a blind follower nor a dependant thinker. I'm a pragmatist. Because of that I don't need to take anyone out of context to make a point. Herein lies your problem. You have to fabricate context, that Statesman a) wants to take fun away from people and b) this change is supposed to somehow stop all powerlevelling. It's a stopgap for a particular instance, and one of a few things done to avoid powerlevelling from the game. You and I agree more effective measures will be done in the future. So why do you have to parrot the illogical stances a) and b) above? There's no reason. You have other good arguements you can use that ARE valid.
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No what makes it hard to group and enjoy missions is the fact that grouping is simply not as profitable as soloing.
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I disagree with that as a rule, and here is why. Both soloing and grouping can be more profitable based on the AT you have, and the team you build. It's one thing to make a fire tanker or regen scrapper. Another thing to make a defender or controller. Also alot of that depends on player aptitude and skill, as well as intelligent power/slotting choices.
You can find instances where either is more profitable. But not everyone wants to play the most uber solo AT/powers/slotting.
BTW right now, with my MA/SR scrapper, I gain XP faster in groups than I do solo. I don't know why, but that's been my experience. I've had to log on a different character when I want to group with people, so I don't outlevel my contacts and their missions.
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The reason people are pl'ing is because the investment in running missions in terms of advancement is laughable.
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I wouldn't go that far. You can get the same amount of XP per second in a mission than you can on the streets. Furthermore you have less competition, plus you get badges, souvieneers and mission completion XP. Plus it's a lot less boring than street hunting.
You could also mix the two up. Street hunt on the way to missions, between them. It's rare to level a character who doesn't do missions, either. You have 2 arguements here. 1) That soloing is faster than grouping, and that street hunting is more lucrative than missions. Both are true in some cases, but not in all. For example my friend plays only a fire tanker and he's lvl 43 now. I play a fire blaster who is now 41 (I bring him out just to group with him). He's an uber fire tanker, and no doubt can get XP quickly. But with me along, I dramatically increase the amount of XP he gets in the same amount of time. I do that for any character that groups with me, except possibly another blaster. And the fire tanker does that for me, too. I can't herd huge chunks of a map, he can. He brings them to a spot, and I inferno. We even have timing down. I have 3RCH and 3DMG and we go chunks at a time.
There's no way he's going to get faster XP without me. There's no way I can get faster XP without him.
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The reason people herd and reset missions is because the risk-vs-reward of facing a string of AV's mission after mission is simply out of whack.
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That's because those missions are a challenge. We get posts saying this game is too easy and there is no challenge, and then those saying this game is too hard because of those challenges. Only are these things even a problem until you're 40's, and generally 1 per story arc except for one contact in the 40-45 and then 45-50 range. Plus you can do other people's missions, or street hunt, grouped or solo'd.
Keep in mind here that I am not arguing absolutes. That powerlevelling is 100% bad. My arguement is that rampant powerlevelling (so many people, all the time) hurts the game, and that the Devs recognize this, and are willing to at least conservatively battle it.
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Like I said earlier, the devs are trying to slow down the leveling process, even if they are saying they don't care how fast you level.
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Well let me make sure I understand what you're saying, because what you say there doesn't make sense. I've seen nowhere, either from Dev actions or words that they want to slow "levelling" down as a rule. They want to slow down powerlevelling, and they've taken some measures to stop it. But they haven't done anything drastic about the actual game mechanics of the game, because as you can tell, powerlevelling is still rampant.
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How many issues do the devs have to try and ride both sides of the fence on before you see the fallacy in their arguments?
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I'll just have to take that as sarcasm, because there's nothing fallicious about what they've said so far on the matter. I've seen the quotes he's made, and how they've been taken out of context, and that doesn't cut it.
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LOL, I'm not the one being dishonest here.
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I think some of your arguements you are being serious, and others you're not remotely serious. For example the "fun" straw man and the "stop all powerlevelling" red herring. I sorta have to guess here and just assume the logical fallacies are merely sarcasm. I like the cut of some of your other arguements though.
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Take the fanboi hat of for a minute, re-read what he said, and think about it. It is pretty plain to see.
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Well I read what he said, and I read what you took out of context. I'm no fanboy, I just know when to recognize logical fallacies, and who's relying on them, Nozy.
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Well, if you don't mind following the path the devs lay before you without even thinking about why or the consequences of their actions more power to you.
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Well the thing is, I understand the reasoning of the Devs. And I bet you do, too. I just don't think you're on the up and up about it. The logical fallacies you've made above illustrate this.
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I'd rather think for myself though.
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Sounds like you're trying to think for Statesman, actually.
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First off, if you are 9 levels below the con of the mob you get less XP than if you are 5 lvls below it. There is a curve in which the XP tapers off once you get so many lvls lower than what is being "arrested".
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Correct. That's the entry point.
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Seconly, if they put a 5 lvl cap on XP, how is that going to stop what all these whiners are complaining about?
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I am glad you asked the question. Here's the answer. It minimizes the range someone can be powerlevelled in. It's one of many possible things that can be done to combat powerlevelling in this game.
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You will still be able to p/l, and tells will still be sent out for that certain lvl range that fills the gap. Whether it be a lvl 42 to sk someone or a lvl 46 to sk someone.
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Correct. I'm not saying it's a cureall for powerlevelling. All powerlevelling will never be gone from any MMO. What I am saying is that it's more rampant in CoH than it should be, because it's so easy to do, and that there are ways to combat it. That is just one way.
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As i stated before, #1 - mind your own business
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Well it is my business when it comes to a problem that is so rampant it effects my ability to find good teams. It would take less time if powerlevelling wasn't so rampant. It's a fallicious arguement to make that it's not effecting anyone else.
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and #2 - p/ling will never stop.
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Correct. Just like crime will never stop. That doesn't mean you eliminate police on the streets, etc. If you've seen any of my arguements on this you'll recall I don't have a problem with some powerlevelling, but with the sheer amount of it we have in the game.
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I'm guessing neither will all the complaining whiners that dont have a lvl 50 or someone thats a lvl 50 that they're friends with to help them lvl.
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Where does that put me? That sorta pokes a hole in your absolute arguement, doesn't it? I am not sitting here and complaining about all the pro-PL whiners complaining about changes that make it harder. Why? It's a stupid thing to complain about.
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Really, thats what this all boils down to...jealousy.
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I disagree. It's about rampant powerlevelling making it harder for people to group and XP together at all levels.
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You could really care less about the longevity of the game and you can't blow enough smoke up my rear to make me believe you do. Get over it!
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What's scary is that you probably really believe that.
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Ah certain freakshow and crey missions in the 30-40 range have new maps.
You would know this if you did the content.
And maps are apperance not the content. Funny how many people when asking for content don't claim maps to be content.
Flashback has not been said to give xp or influence or anything for that matter. So if people do powerlevel and flashback they won't gain anything. Maybe debt removal will be only thing you get.
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What do those maps look like? You certainly don't go to them between 30 and 36, as I have two characters in that level range that do missions with friends also in that level range.
I also have a tanker that I like to level up with as fast as possible. I don't pl anybody that I don't know in person, and I only PL them so that I can play with them (i.e. do their missions and get something out of it).
Now, your statement at the end there shows that you're not understanding what I'm saying. Let's recap:
Statesman says that he doesn't like people power leveling and then missing the fun content. When the flashback system is put into place you will be able to go back and play content that you have missed. This means that if you power level past the "fun" content, you can go back and do it all you'd like. This means that his point of not liking people "missing" content will be made moot by a system that will be put into place in the future. It has nothing to do with gaining xp or influence or whatever. It just doesn't make sense for the devs to spend time on things that people are using now when they could be spending that time on developing the larger systems of the game that will ultimately solve the problem they're seeing.
Also, you should pay more attention to the boards. It's funny that you seem to think people out there are asking for new stories when they say new content. I have specifically heard people ask for new costume options, tilesets (maps), power sets, zones and ATs. I've never heard anybody say that there is a lack of story in this game or that "story" content needs to be upped.
It's fantastic that the devs put a lot of time and energy into making the story of the game, but it's not the only aspect of "content" that goes into this game or any game for that matter. When the devs added badges, that was new content. When the devs added capes and auras, that was new content. When the devs changed the freakshow tf in the 20s to have outdoor missions, that was new content. The content needs to fit the story, and that's the point.
The question is at what point do you limit teaming to restrict powerleveling. In my opinion the current setup of CoH is good.
I don't have a problem with powerleveling and none of my characters that I play have been powerleveled. While I have teamed with people that were several levels above me and opted not to sk to get more xp I could still bring things to the party and got in the action and took risks for that xp.
Even though some people would call that powerleveling because I was getting alot of xp for my level I consider it a just reward considering the risks I was taking facing +7 mobs and actually goint at them.
I don't feel that we should restrict teams beyond how they are already restricted, I think teaming should be encouraged. Yes it facilitates PLers but it also facilitates friends.
In my opinion playing with friends and having fun is alot more important than some people leveling in a corner.
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I've never heard anybody say that there is a lack of story in this game or that "story" content needs to be upped.
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After release I made a total of ten posts asking for more content and better content.
Those are just the posts I have made. I posted on more than a hundred similar posts before there was a suggestions forum.
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Never have I seen a regen die on AV and I have seen dozens of AVs fall to regen.
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You need to lay off the booze man.
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Never have I seen a regen die on AV and I have seen dozens of AVs fall to regen.
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You need to lay off the booze man.
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LMAO!! 
5 stars for you
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I've never heard anybody say that there is a lack of story in this game or that "story" content needs to be upped.
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After release I made a total of ten posts asking for more content and better content.
Those are just the posts I have made. I posted on more than a hundred similar posts before there was a suggestions forum.
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Do you mean you made ten posts asking for more story? What were you calling content in those posts? Idioteraser is telling me that the word content refers only to in-game story and that other things are unimportant. I don't think he's right.
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Do you mean you made ten posts asking for more story? What were you calling content in those posts? Idioteraser is telling me that the word content refers only to in-game story and that other things are unimportant. I don't think he's right.
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I was commenting on just that line about having never hearing anyone ask for more story content.
Yes I made posts a long time ago for more story content because it seemed that the content and stories repeated themselves. Almost verbatim in some cases. I mean why are the vahzilok trying to poison the waste sewage system? It will hardly effect the city but we are supposed to get all riled up about it and fight the vahz. I mean if it hits the sewage treatment plant it will......surprise get treated along with the rest of the sewage.
So alot of us asked for better srtorylines and a few new ones added in with the updates instead of the kill xxx missions.
I actually wish they'd put more focus on the content. Outside of story arcs, the story to me tends to fall pretty heavily by the wayside, and even in story arcs, it's pretty optional. One "save the hostage" mission tends to run into another after a while, and it's often hard for me to care whether or not the absolutely identical glowy you're clicking is a weather control device this time around instead of a dimensional stabilizer... I'm not saying I don't like missions. I'm just saying whatever story the missions are meant to represent is often lost.
The story, what there is of it, seems to me to largely come up in the before mission briefing and the post-mission laugh-before-fade-out type comments your contacts give, with a little hint of it in whatever the named Boss chimes in during this iteration. But, y'know, a lot of the time people (I, at least) just skim for the green text and whether or not there's a timer, especially if you're in a team and people are waiting... people who can't see the text you're reading, too. You can't even right-click on a mission and hit Info to see the mission briefing. It's one-stop content shopping, and once you're out the door, they lock it on you.
They need some way to really emphasize the story. It's too bad they can't work in some demo-type version of cutscenes somehow. I know that's a bit difficult when you're working multiplayer like this, but wouldn't it be nice if, when you go into a room where the archvillain is supposed to be concocting some maniacal device or what have you, he's actually directing minions in its construction instead of standing motionless like a mannequin? Wouldn't it be nice if you had to stop, say, Dr. Vahzilok from clicking four glowies to turn on his Magico-Scientific Rutabaga Machine? Or Nemesis soldiers from getting to the alarm switches that would alert the station to your presence?
They already have something like this with the Paladin, where the idea is to stop it being built, not beat it; if you let the little buggers construct the Paladin, you still get to stomp it... but you're too late for the badge. So they can work out systems like this using the game engine, right?
I think it'd help add a little more atmosphere to it. The new map backgrounds help emphasize the story, but it'd be nice to get the mobs into the action, too.
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They need some way to really emphasize the story. It's too bad they can't work in some demo-type version of cutscenes somehow. I know that's a bit difficult when you're working multiplayer like this, but wouldn't it be nice if, when you go into a room where the archvillain is supposed to be concocting some maniacal device or what have you, he's actually directing minions in its construction instead of standing motionless like a mannequin?
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There is an RPG that has cutscenes and they do add alot to the game. Its called Guild Wars.
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If your scrapper gets Koed in one hit then you are playing a gimp scrapper.
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Well, if you consider a Regen scrappre with the HP accolades, Dull Pain, and 6 slotted tough getting one shotted gimp, then I guess you have the right to your own definition of gimp.
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Selling characters or influence or selling levels is something that should get an account banned and the person blacklisted from any game company.
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Well, I happen to agree with you here. When did I ever say anything about selling/buying anything on E-Bay?
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Risk vs. reward is a crap excuse.
AVs fall so easily to any build in a team unless someone is a screwup. And sadly powerleveling is the reason one finds a lot of screwups in the post 35+
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LOL, if you think the risk of getting our right one shotted equals the meager rewards of beating an AV, more power to you. As I said before, it's your right to think everything is fine, just seems like there are a lot of people who happen to disagree with you.
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I have played through the 40s as does 99% of the anti-powerleveling crowd. We know the reason why teaming is hard to do is because every frigging request to team is to do wolf missions.
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I can say I've never been blind invited to a wolf mission. I've been invited by people I know, and had met while playing through the game. Running wolf missions isn't something you see people going out recruiting for or advertising. I simply don't believe it is as wide spread as you seem to think it is. Most groups you see forming in PI are AV teams.
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Everyone who wants to do a shadow shard tf finds the amount of effort to get one going is a lot easier with the wolf timer in place.
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No, the reason no one does the SS TF's is because they are a pain in the [censored]. The SS in general is a pain in the [censored].
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Never have I seen a regen die on AV and I have seen dozens of AVs fall to regen.
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Bwahahahaha. See you simply lost any credibility you had. Regen will drop in a heartbeat to most AV's. Shadowhunter, neuron, Antimatter, Dreck, Bobcat (if she crits), Night star, etc., etc. all have massive hits that can drop a regen scrapper, and a SR's scrapper as well if it hits, before you even know what happened. Sorry, but you shouldn't get into discussions if you don't have the foggiest clue what is the reality of the late game.
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Well I read what he said, and I read what you took out of context. I'm no fanboy, I just know when to recognize logical fallacies, and who's relying on them, Nozy.
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Well, since most of your post was rubbish that is a thinly veiled attempt to call me a liar, I'll just address this one point. Take a look at the following quotes and tell me how you reconsile them?
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Admittedly, "fun" and "unfun" are completely subjective, so people can disagree.
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But I am concerned when someone is doing somethingg "unfun" in order to gain levels quickly and thereby bypassing other, more interesting content.
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It simply doesn't add up.
Fact is, they did it to simply stop people from leveling quickly. Simple as that. I have no problem with the fact that they did it (anyone who wants to PL stopped with the wolves a long time ago) but don't come to the public forums and try to pass it off as some grand move to encourage people to have more fun. The stated goals, the changes made, and the results of those changes don't add up. They don't address the stated goal of encouraging people to enjoy the content or to stop people from leveling quickly through repeating "unfun" actions. All it does is slow people down in general.
The change won't even effect the group the change is targeted at. All it will really accomplish is to prevent those who are playing the game "the fun way" from completing the mission as intended.
If they want to clamp down on herding or PL'ing more power to 'em. if they want to encourage people to partake of the games actual content I'm all for that. i don't think applauding half [censored] measures is the way to do it though. The devs need to take the time and come up with some real solutions to make experiencing the content more rewarding then these "unfun" activiites.
Those who thought that the developers wouldn't eventually do something about this particular mission were simply in denial. They don't want players finishing the game fast, and they'll do what they can in the future to stop any fast tracks to 50.
With that said, it may be repetitive as all hell to farm the same wolves and farm the same hatched krakens all the time but what's the alternative? Running around the city to clear out the same office, lab, cave, warehouse etc that the player has most likely seen countless times, in the small hope that one mission won't just be a normal warehouse, but a warehouse with a new coat of paint?
It doesn't sound that much better to me.
/signed
BALANCE IS A NERF
Liberty Server
@Energy Aura and @Ill Conceived on Global
Han Solo: [laughs] Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good BLASTER at your side, kid.
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That is what is really silly. I might not be in the market for an Enhancement or the Spelunker mission, but is it really necessary to petition the designers because I dont know how to edit my chat tab?
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Hmm how do you edit broadcasts and tells to only block messages related to power leveling and influence begging? I'd like to know, since there are some messages I might want to hear... like someone forming a team to actually play the game.
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No what makes it hard to group and enjoy missions is the fact that grouping is simply not as profitable as soloing. The reason people are pl'ing is because the investment in running missions in terms of advancement is laughable.
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It seems to me is that this is the difference in attitude that is at the root of this particular argument. (I would hesitate to call this thread a discussion anymore)
If the aim is to gain levels as quickly as possible then, yes, herding and mission resetting and farming are the obvious techniques to apply to that particular problem.
Others are more inclined to see doing missions and grouping to be the aim. There really is not much to argue about, since these are philosophical differences almost, much like taste in food, art and music.
Simple Level Req's on the PI ferry, or the Portal Corp doors would have put a stop to this much, much easier.
Here, have 3 influence.
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That is what is really silly. I might not be in the market for an Enhancement or the Spelunker mission, but is it really necessary to petition the designers because I dont know how to edit my chat tab?
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Hmm how do you edit broadcasts and tells to only block messages related to power leveling and influence begging? I'd like to know, since there are some messages I might want to hear... like someone forming a team to actually play the game.
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Go to your 4rth Chat Tab. Open it up....Edit it to only include broadcast and request. Never look at it.....unless you are in the market.
Sorry I can't censor the world for you. Others have the right to look for a team and transmit on those two channels. Sorry you are forced to share, but it is a MMORPG after all so either accept sharing or stop playing.
Everytime someone puts up a "Wolf mission......blah blah" put them on ignore, then hit "clear history". I am sure with about 5 minutes total over the lifetime of your char (it takes about 8 seconds to type out even the longest name) you will eventually never hear another wolf mission broadcast.
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Go to your 4rth Chat Tab. Open it up....Edit it to only include broadcast and request. Never look at it.....unless you are in the market.
Sorry I can't censor the world for you. Others have the right to look for a team and transmit on those two channels. Sorry you are forced to share, but it is a MMORPG after all so either accept sharing or stop playing.
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How can something this clear, that makes this much sense, get missed by so many people?
No doubt it will, I would bet money this thread will go around the circle again. Poster #1 will post what idiots powerlevelers are, he will get owned in a logical argument by poster #2, poster #3 will make a generalization about poster #2 while not even having any clue about his habits/tendencies, poster #4 will point it out and reinforce the irrefutable logic of "minding your own business" and "playing your own game".
*sigh*
I don't know about you guys, but I'm done wasting my time in this thread.
50 Heroes:
Inv/EM, Ice/Device, Inv/Fire, Fire/EM, Fire/Kin, Ill/Rad, Grav/Storm, Spines/Regen, DM/SR
50 Villains:
EM/Regen
Founding member of Old School, Triumph
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You mean flashback? Nothing on what the flashback system really allows you to do has been mentioned or what you would expierence.
Stories are content according to the game developers. They have a story Bible that is 500 pages long. Obviously the info on mobs, clues, spoken text by mobs, civilans is all part of the backstory of the game.
Sorry at 30 a boss doesn't give 3k xp solo even con.
It's three times a boss. And all the portals give two to three bars of xp in one hour whearas the old farming took hours to just get one bar.
I farmed portals because I ran out of missions with four levels before new ones and a tf only gave one bar at the most. This was preissue 2 btw.
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What are you talking about? The flashback system has been mentioned as a system that will allow you to go back and take missions that you missed. In fact that is the ONLY thing that we know about the system. That makes these changes completely moot.
Also, in a group I gained about 700 xp for defeating a portal in the CoT portal spawns, whereas I gained 200ish xp for the bosses in the same mission. Maybe the xp has been tweaked since either one of us has last been in that level range? Also, when you were farming them, were you in a team? If so, your time comparison of soloing a portal vs farming before isn't valid.
By the way, story is PART of the content. It isn't the content, though. That should be very obvious to anybody who's played a video game before. If you want the only content in your game to be story, you shouldn't be writing a game as books are a much better delivery system for just stories. The devs know this, which is one reason why they revamp old missions with new content, such as the wonderful treatment of Dr. Vahzilok's lair and the Tsoo Tatoo parlor to name a couple. The game content has to reflect the story for it to be at all interesting in a game setting. The Portal Missions are a really decent example of that, but there's pretty much nothing new between 30-40 in terms of mission maps.