clues to future epics?(spoilers)
By
AnderVash,
Posted on: 2004-11-12 23:19 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Hmm...I'm not sure that the first two epic ATs having something to do with Paragon City history necessarily implies that all epic ATs will. I would actually find that rather disappointing, since I feel that it rather limits background creation for those characters ("Hey, I'm a Kheldian and I'm here...fighting crime for some reason. Oh, and both my parents were killed by Nictus.")
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The third potential source I see for an epic archtype is Tielekku. The story arc has you save her from a trap by the banished pantheon and send a message that will hopefully bring her back to help the world.
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Hmm...while "god" as an epic AT would be pretty cool, I think that would lead to a pretty big pantheon. Demigod or angel or something would be cool, though, but those don't really have links to existing backstory (haven't heard of any angels of Tielekku).
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In a similar vein to Tielekku's return we know to that a Emreeth(maybe misremembered name) patronized those who would someday debase themselves and become the circle of thorns.
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Heh...it's a correct use of the word, but the image with the "Don't patronize me!" meaning is so much funnier...
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Hmm...I'm not sure that the first two epic ATs having something to do with Paragon City history necessarily implies that all epic ATs will. I would actually find that rather disappointing, since I feel that it rather limits background creation for those characters ("Hey, I'm a Kheldian and I'm here...fighting crime for some reason. Oh, and both my parents were killed by Nictus.")
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not quite what i meant. More like we knew something was going to come from the Nictus that show up around the fifth column in path of Darkness and hero of a thousand worlds, and dthe Kheldians were that thing.
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The third potential source I see for an epic archtype is Tielekku. The story arc has you save her from a trap by the banished pantheon and send a message that will hopefully bring her back to help the world.
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Hmm...while "god" as an epic AT would be pretty cool, I think that would lead to a pretty big pantheon. Demigod or angel or something would be cool, though, but those don't really have links to existing backstory (haven't heard of any angels of Tielekku).
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Gods do all sorts of wierd things in mythology and comics. They grant magic items to invoke power, create childen out of clay, all sorts of wierd things.
though tying Tielekku to the winged epic promised would be very interesting even if it would make all would be angels cry...
I had a similar idea with the Mu guys being special super mages a la Dr. Fate/Strange. Kinda goes with the suggestion in my sig.
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I had a similar idea with the Mu guys being special super mages a la Dr. Fate/Strange. Kinda goes with the suggestion in my sig.
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Tielekku might be a better source for epic sorcerers being the creator of magic in the cohverse..
Well, they've already said many of today's magic heroes are descendants of Mu, so they can't be THAT special.
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Well, they've already said many of today's magic heroes are descendants of Mu, so they can't be THAT special.
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As I said that might be used as a game source for characters who are just born magical. The thing is Muish blood is the backbone of quite afew plots in game including being the the only source of rikti mages. It being a dangling plot point I thought I would mention it here.
And we know for a fact that Statesman's an Epic AT and will be playable in the future...
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Well, they've already said many of today's magic heroes are descendants of Mu, so they can't be THAT special.
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Conceivably, many magic heroes could be descendents of Mu. But the epic archetype people actually could be full on Mu. Like some put themselves in mystical hibernation and have woke up due to CoT activity.
Yeah, Muvians would be pretty cool. Not sure what their powers would be, but still, pretty cool. 
I'm personally against "God" as an Epic Archetype though. After all, to represent they appropriately they have to be downright godlike, which would make them far too powerful.
Unless they are weak on their own, but can do pretty much anything with worshippers in their team to give them pow... wait a minute. 
Hell, I'm ALREADY roleplaying out the whole "inner will" power thing. Natural MA/SR scrapper.
I never want to be like the Statesman in terms of powers (too Superman for me) but my own adaptation of it is what I'm RPing...
How else would you explain a natural rolling out of a 50 story fall with just an ache in his legs? Cracking a Rikti armor chestplate in half with a flying sidekick?
I can't wait to find out more about these EATs. The more they add, the cooler this game is going to get.
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I would actually find that rather disappointing, since I feel that it rather limits background creation for those characters ("Hey, I'm a Kheldian and I'm here...fighting crime for some reason. Oh, and both my parents were killed by Nictus.")
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Well, it does, sort of. But there's still the human who the kheldian bonded with in the first place - They are symbiotes, not parasites... so you are basically where you were when creating a normal hero, with the added spice of explaining how he got bonded with an immaterial alien.
Frankly I'm just going to relaunch TLA when he hits 50 as an epic. It makes sense that the aliens would offer themselves to the strongest heroes first, and i can easily incorporate that into TLA's story.
Dawnslayer on Virtue.
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Yeah, Muvians would be pretty cool. Not sure what their powers would be, but still, pretty cool.
I'm personally against "God" as an Epic Archetype though. After all, to represent they appropriately they have to be downright godlike, which would make them far too powerful.
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I point you unto hercules, he's a god and he didn't even have a travel power. Or Monkey who beat up all the gods of china.... God and superhero are not so different in power level...
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Yeah, Muvians would be pretty cool. Not sure what their powers would be, but still, pretty cool.
I'm personally against "God" as an Epic Archetype though. After all, to represent they appropriately they have to be downright godlike, which would make them far too powerful.
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I point you unto hercules, he's a god and he didn't even have a travel power. Or Monkey who beat up all the gods of china.... God and superhero are not so different in power level...
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Well, Heracles did all his adventuring while still a demigod, and Monkey did get pwned by Buddha.
Still, Neil Gaiman quotes aside, people expect gods to be somewhere above ones self, no matter how powerful that self happens to be. Statesman may be powerful, but it would be pure hubris to say he could [Censored] Ganesh.
Reducing deities to a comfortable level cheapens them, and reducing them to a beatable level cheapens them even more. Make them PCs, and you'd might as well turn those temple into bargain depots! ("Redemption? Intervention? Wrath? We have it all! And now for a limited time, try our 90-day soul-back guarantee!" )
Would Muvians (love the name) be good guys or bad guys? Yes, they fought and destroyed the Orebegans, who then spent centuries as disembodied spirits until they started possessing humans and became the council of thorns. But, the Orebegans were a peaceful society at the time, and it appears that the difference between the good orebegans from the other dimension and ours is that the Muvians didn't attack (or at least didn't win).
Should somehow some people from the ancient civilization of Mu make it into Paragon City, we could well find ourselves fighting with the Council of Thorns as allies against a much more dangerous threat.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
I'll drop a hint: the name of an upcoming Epic Archetype.
Incarnate.
Heck - I'll do another....
Coralax.
Happy Saturday!
Statesman,
You are so wrong but oh so right. The cruel torment you make us live with.
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I'll drop a hint: the name of an upcoming Epic Archetype.
Incarnate.
Heck - I'll do another....
Coralax.
Happy Saturday!
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Statesman I love this game... but really....
You're despicable.
Incarnate might be the winged archetype, or some sort of Avatar of a diety archetype (probably both). That's my guess anyway.
Culex's resistance guide
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I'll drop a hint: the name of an upcoming Epic Archetype.
Incarnate.
Heck - I'll do another....
Coralax.
Happy Saturday!
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That was a total SOB move, man 
Lets see, Statesman came from White Wolf a pen and paper RPG company. Now Corax in WW games were shapeshifting ravens so I am thinking Coralax may be a) a shapeshifter or b) winged
Incarnate I am less sure of, WW does have a game line called Exalted where heroes are empowered by Gods/Other beings of great power. So that may be the genesis for Incarnates. Or I could be reading way too much into this 
Well, "incarnate" means to be the embodiment of something, usually a concept or deity. So an Incarnate is probably either some sort of divine avatar or elemental. Of course, my money's on the latter.
And that's a really good call with the Coralax. 
Statesman has his Torment power six slotted.
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Well, Heracles did all his adventuring while still a demigod, and Monkey did get pwned by Buddha.
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I use monkey as a perfect example for the twin views of deities n myth. The gods are little more than superhumans while the budha is a trancendent deity.....
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Still, Neil Gaiman quotes aside, people expect gods to be somewhere above ones self, no matter how powerful that self happens to be.
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People expect the same of Heroes. Myth, fantasy and comics all tend to put the hero on the same level as the god.... and often the hero is the victor.
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Statesman may be powerful, but it would be pure hubris to say he could [Censored] Ganesh.
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Statesman's story isn't all that diffferent from those of the taoist immortals and they could hand Ganesh is trunk. Their kungfu is strong.
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Reducing deities to a comfortable level cheapens them, and reducing them to a beatable level cheapens them even more.
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and maintaining the untouchable nature of gods misses the story of Myths and some of the most interesting fantasy novels. Elric fought his gods kills them, the loss of the Aesir in ragnorok is fortold... THEY even need the greatest human champions to fight with them in that epic battle..
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Make them PCs, and you'd might as well turn those temple into bargain depots! ("Redemption? Intervention? Wrath? We have it all! And now for a limited time, try our 90-day soul-back guarantee!" )
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So it would be like prechristian rome where all the temples pulled that sort of thing? Or some Leiber stories? or discworld....
Incarnate... hmmm... wings... hmm... Angels or souls from old heroes. Reincarnates of heroes of old? Bit at the same time, isn't this what Kheldians are? Incarnates.
Just my 2 cents.
We know now that epic archtypes will be about playing something intimately tied to the COH universe rather than something that could slide easily into any other universe. We also know that missions unveil bits and pieces of the COh universe even having heralded the comiing of the Kheldians in the story arcs, Path of the Dark, and hero of a thousand worlds.
We also know that issue 3 will begin the progression of the coh "metaplot" building on old storyarcs to create new content. So we can safely assume that future epics will be based on those old story arcs or even the occasional throw away comment in missions. So based on this I have afew idea for the story if not the mechanics for future epics based on myteries left at the end of arcs and throw away comments.
The first and most blatant story arc point would be the Rikti. They invaded, they changed the world and all it takes is one little process and anyone can be made into one. Now I don't think we will be seeing this one until city of villains, I think it would require starting as a villain to obtain.
The second I think and nearly as blatant is Statesman and his awakening to human potential. This has been mentioned in the past as coming out after city of villains. I personally think Statesman's route will be the only route to this exaltation...
The third potential source I see for an epic archtype is Tielekku. The story arc has you save her from a trap by the banished pantheon and send a message that will hopefully bring her back to help the world.
In a similar vein to Tielekku's return we know to that a Emreeth(maybe misremembered name) patronized those who would someday debase themselves and become the circle of thorns. It is never said what truly happened to him it just seems he went away.
Adding a third god playing with things, to the mix, Hequat the patron goddess of Mu supposed return drives the Circle of thorns forward in renewing its ties to the Envoy of Shadows. Her return may bring a decendents of Mu conspiracy enemy group... and also allow them as an epic archtype. The blood of Mu might be covered already by magical by birth heroes.
Finally a throw away comment leads to my most questionable potential source of epicness. In the Scroll of Tielekku story arc when one raids the COT library one of the books is supposedly written by the ancient saurian sorcerers the first sentient life forms on the planet. This is really streatching it but.... dinosaurs are cool. Who wouldn't want their character to have the power of the ancient dinosaurs?
Has anyone else noticed any other clues that might lead us to new epic characters?