Low lvl game is TOTALLY SCREWED
By
9783_Dollar_Man,
Posted on: 2004-09-28 10:45 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Most of the board regulars know I've been quite vocal about easing up on the difficulty. However I have to say, removing the Outcasts powers and replacing them w/guns is a mistake (imo). They need to be tweaked, but not removed. They are Outcasts for a reason afterall. I say tone them down, maybe a bit more than they are on test, but don't remove them.
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Statesman sez:
This was a serious error in design. We've already toned them down once - and we're going to be equipping them with weapons similar to those used by Hellions and Skulls at that level.
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Does that mean that you will be removing the chain stun/hold/knockback capabilities from these minions?
Instead of spreading piecemeal answers about this problem from post to post, Cryptic might want to make a comprehensive statement outlining all the problems you identified with Issue # 2 and the plans you have made (or implemented) to rectify the situation. Then everyone could refer to that one comprehensive statement instead of asking the same questions over and over again... Think of it as an Issue #2 resolution FAQ.
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http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...part=1#1360054
It doesn't exactly take a lot of time or effort to find.
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And that's not what I am talking about. That just shows the list of things that are currently in the Training Room. It does not address the design approach of Issue #2 and what is considered a design error to be corrected versus what is a purposeful change to the game. People are wanting to /bug useful changes as well as real bugs.
In your zeal to flame you missed the point entirely. You score no epeen points.
Two words:
Hazard Zone
If you want to solo, try King's Row.
Statesman,
Please do NOT tone down The Hollows any further. The noobs and smacktards have the other zones to run in. I started a controller along with some friends and we ran over the weekend. It was hard but very satisfying and we got to between 10th and 14th level.
The zone is a team zone. You CANNOT solo there until you have basically out-level'd the content. The only thing the devs need to do is make that fact more univerally understood. In the current state this zone is EXACTLY what CoH has been needing.
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I've got a ton of characters who are all fairly low level (L4-L16) [ed.] and I think with the last couple of patches the game has been fine at a lower level. Most villains I can solo (in soloing ATs).
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When you solo a mission, you need to be able to arrest any enemy that appears in the mission. You submit a video of your Level < 10 solo AT arresting a red Bone Daddy or Damned, and I will be inclined to believe what you said above. I routinely draw solo missions in that level range with a red boss and a yellow minion at the end.
Honestly.
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What?
You want facts? Alright, here some facts.
Fact: Outcasts and trolls are far more powerful than they ever used to be in relation to their level, and are FAR more powerful than any other mob at thier level. At level 5, you are fighting things with ballbats, shotguns, sledgehammers, electric zaps, and zombie barf at worst.
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Fact: This is a known issue that has been commented on by the DEVs and is currently on the test server fixed, they have toned down both trolls and outcast bringing them more in line with Skulls and hellions of equiv level ...
Let's all go to the test server, let's all go to the test server, let's all go to the test server, and get ourselves some pie!
Really, copy a character and go to the test server and see how it is to you now. If you think there are bugs with it - post in the test server forum. If you don't like it and have a suggestion, post it in the general forum.
Why? Because it is coming to a live server near you soon and may address your problem.
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let's all go to the test server, and get ourselves some pie!
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Yes!!! It's about time we get a Pie emote! 
Sorry, played on test earlier today. Fix doesn't seem to have taken. I bugged the approx. 12 things I found wrong. Not the least of which being the respec bugs (note bugs as in plural). Also noted are the large number of mobs still spawning together in Hollows...also mind numbing number of Lt's per minion in said groups.
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Did somebody say "pie".
I'm heading to test server now, and looking for a bakery
There is also the problem of being chainstunned and slowed all at once. I'll try out the test server in a second, but when the bricks are constantly stunning and flipping you and the coolers are slowing you.. it makes it really difficult to do anything but be sent to the hospital.
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Also noted are the large number of mobs still spawning together in Hollows...also mind numbing number of Lt's per minion in said groups.
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That's not a bug. The Hollows is a Hazard Zone - just like Perez Park. It's spawns are designed for small groups of heroes. If you're a solo player, you should be able to avoid the spawns, if you're careful. If you're hunting, then find a friend.
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Statesman,
Please do NOT tone down The Hollows any further. The noobs and smacktards have the other zones to run in. I started a controller along with some friends and we ran over the weekend. It was hard but very satisfying and we got to between 10th and 14th level.
The zone is a team zone. You CANNOT solo there until you have basically out-level'd the content. The only thing the devs need to do is make that fact more univerally understood. In the current state this zone is EXACTLY what CoH has been needing.
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Your right it is a team zone. And it SHOULD stay the way it is. Its a perfect zone to teach the low levels how to team and the "veterans" that have alts there. I laughed for a long time when i was in a group in the hollows with my controller and all in the group said they had high level main toons. The worst part of it was it was the worst group i had ever played in. Not to mention that after 1 defeat half, yes half, of the group made up excuses to leave or just plain quit.
Oh and soloing the hollows can be done! i do it daily with my controller. Yes my controller. The only mission i haven't been able to solo so far is the "disarm 2 bombs at the same time" mission.
It should be fine once that contact issue is cleared up. I ran into the same thing, it was extremely unclear and you can very easily end up with the hollows guy being your only mission contact at level 5 or 6 if you do a lot of missions. Once that and the +1 bug is fixed I don't see a problem.
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It should be fine once that contact issue is cleared up. I ran into the same thing, it was extremely unclear and you can very easily end up with the hollows guy being your only mission contact at level 5 or 6 if you do a lot of missions. Once that and the +1 bug is fixed I don't see a problem.
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maybe its the AT. First contact i got after i did almost all of the missions for my initial contact in AP was the contact in KR. I didn't get the contact for the hollows until ALL of my missions were completed with the AP contact in the hall.
Alright just hopped on Test and went for the 'Bust up the Outcasts bases (the third mission I think?)'
No random bosses roaming around. And Electic Eel was level 10 (as he should be). I still got flipped by bricks occasionally and lead bricks more moften but no longer chain stunned and slept.
Thanks Statesman! 
And the Hollows should be left as is.. on the outdoor parts. It's great running into the Trolls doing deals with the Hellions or the Trolls threatening the CoT or the Trolls and Outcasts battling it out.
You know, at first, I was really gung-ho on having them completely remove all the new difficulty mods that went live in Issue #2---even the non-bug ones. But now, after having fun with basic missions (failing them every time), I'm wondering:
Can some sort of happy medium be found? I realize the difficulty slider is in the works and may well solve this whole issue, but generally, I think a difficulty point mid-way between what it is now on Live and how it was before I2 is where it needs to default to. Automatic failure=no; automatic win=no, too.
Find that mid-point, that precise point of challenge vs reward, danger vs doom and you'll have it made, States and Co. Of course, go ahead and add in that slider for the people who really want a tough or easy mission sometimes.
thanks
Cal2
edited: typos. sorry, home sick and can't think.
i like pie...
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And that's not what I am talking about. That just shows the list of things that are currently in the Training Room. It does not address the design approach of Issue #2 and what is considered a design error to be corrected versus what is a purposeful change to the game. People are wanting to /bug useful changes as well as real bugs.
In your zeal to flame you missed the point entirely. You score no epeen points.
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Actually, I was making no attempt to flame. If you look at what is in the list of items for test, compared to how things are on live, it should be fairly obvious exactly what they decided were bad design changes and are in the process of fixing.
You did a good job of flaming yourself, though.
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That's not a bug. The Hollows is a Hazard Zone - just like Perez Park. It's spawns are designed for small groups of heroes. If you're a solo player, you should be able to avoid the spawns, if you're careful. If you're hunting, then find a friend.
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Overall, I like that. My problem with the Hollows is how the missions are set up. The indoor missions that you can get at level 6 are in areas where you find plenty of level 9 - 11s. Same for the second contact which comes into play fairly quickly.
If you die in a mission it takes a lot of effort for a solo character to get back to the mission. I've seen more than a few teammates quit a team rather than risk death from getting too close to the seventh mob of purples. Same for if you get recruited by a hunting group who are already in their game.
Last night I died twice trying to get back to my team and I thought I was being careful but I eventually drew the aggro of a purple mob who quickly took me down as I ran away.
I think the indoor missions should be placed in an area where the villains in the area are a lower level like Cherry Hills so that a solo player trying to catch up with their team can at least survive running away from a mob.
...or just set up that mish to have a higher minimum level to deal with the thugs in the vincinity.
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And that's not what I am talking about. That just shows the list of things that are currently in the Training Room. It does not address the design approach of Issue #2 and what is considered a design error to be corrected versus what is a purposeful change to the game. People are wanting to /bug useful changes as well as real bugs.
In your zeal to flame you missed the point entirely. You score no epeen points.
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Actually, I was making no attempt to flame. If you look at what is in the list of items for test, compared to how things are on live, it should be fairly obvious exactly what they decided were bad design changes and are in the process of fixing.
You did a good job of flaming yourself, though.
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You miss the point again. That's just a list, which may or may not be germain to the hoped for discussion of design intent versus what went wrong. Sort of a post mortem of issue #2.
Just let it go. It's a very nice list you found, but it's not the right document.
Anyway, I'm done here. If you're one of those autoresponders who won't stop, you'll just be playing with yourself again.
If you're a solo player, you should be able to avoid the spawns, if you're careful.
I have only two outstanding complaints about the Hollows, and one is that mobs are spawning literally on top of players. (The other is that the Contact who sends you there in the first place doesn't warn you that it's a Hazard Zone and you will probably need to bring friends. I could have sworn that was in the text when Issue #2 was still being tested.)
I just copied the 5 Broadsword/Invul Scrapper I used to shoot this demo and tried Wincott's door missions. I was disappointed, they're way too easy now. Electric Eel and Bedrock were easier to kill than Bone Daddies or Damned. Confessedly she did hit level 6 before reaching either, but Eel was spawned at +1 so he was still an orange con.
Given that people are reporting some success at soloing the zone, I really can't agree with the reductions in power for the Outcasts and Trolls. A Hazard Zone that can be soloed by a level 5 character isn't very...hazardous. When I shot Scylia's demo on Infinity the zone was full of people running around in groups, fighting mobs and having a good time. I don't think the zone or the mobs need to be nerfed at all.
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I have only two outstanding complaints about the Hollows, and one is that mobs are spawning literally on top of players. (
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Now that IS definitely an issue. Looking into it.
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Fact: Outcasts and trolls are far more powerful than they ever used to be in relation to their level, and are FAR more powerful than any other mob at thier level. At level 5, you are fighting things with ballbats, shotguns, sledgehammers, electric zaps, and zombie barf at worst.
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This was a serious error in design. We've already toned them down once - and we're going to be equipping them with weapons similar to those used by Hellions and Skulls at that level.
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Boo! Please keep Outcast minions interesting! If they are doing the same damage as other minions but using flares, ice bolt, stone fists etc instead of knives and pistols, I am very much in favor of keeping their flavor the way it is post issue 2.
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It is not mandatory - one of your contacts will give you a mission to talk to Lt. Wincott, but you don't have to accept missions from him.
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It was a mistake for them to make this contact special. It would be less confusing if you were merely introduced to him, just like every other contact.
I'm guessing that making his introduction a mission was a workaround. Adding him into the current matrix system of introductions may have been complicated.