Any timescale on when the +1 lvl bug is fixed?

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I still havent encountered any mission boss that werent +1 lvl after update 2 in door missions. Since my my blaster cant really solo a red boss and minions I wonder if there is a fix comming soon?

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This happened BEFORE Update #2. And try going up against 2 bosses.

It CAN be done. I took down a +1 Dev Earth boss yesterday with my Grav Controller (solo). It did take one trip to the hospital before I defeated him, but I did.

It is tough....it takes some strategy...and it often takes some running out of aggro range to recuperate.

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*Nods* And then of course there is how much is too much.


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When you zone into the mission instance, the leader should be able to select the difficult, via the pair of sliders. I'd think up to +4 levels of the mission holder. Did you set the mission too difficult? Zone in again and rechoose. It'd reset the entire mission and repopulate it.

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And what about timed missions or story arcs? Should you be able to change each mission in the story arc individually?

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Yes.

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Or should you only be able to change it at the very first mission?

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No. If you're doing an archvillian mission, you might hang yourself if you picked a level that was fine for the rest of the missions.

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And what about timed missions? Should it increase the timer? Add extra objectives?

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No. If you want more difficult then increasing the mob levels and/or density just makes timed missions more difficult too. That's a good thing.

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Its not something that should be taken lightly. And thankfully, Statesman is not stupid and realizes that.

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Of course not! But this is something I think should be one of the highest priorities. Higher than jamming a lot of new content into a new issue. Because the current content isn't much fun when it doesn't present any sort challenge.

I'd have happily waited on Issue 2 if it meant getting the difficulty slider in sooner. I'll may never use RSK, may never visit The Hollows, capes are pretty, auras are nice, but truly they do nothing to make the game play fun. The sooner I have the option to make my missions more difficult, the sooner I'll be having more fun, all the time, in the game.

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As for Update 2 being for "power gamers", I can honestly say that there was absolutely NO attempt to increase the game's difficulty. The conglomeration of bugs/mistakes have created this impression (beginning with the +1 mobs everywhere).

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Thanks for the update Statesman. I have to tell you, the biggest reason I perceive Issue #2 as being for "powergamers" is that you attached the most difficult and challenging task yet in the game to a feature that was suppossed to help out gimped or poorly thought out characters (respec). That just never made sense to me. But I see that you guys are working hard on this stuff and I guess I'll just have to have faith in you guys.

If you look at this from a person who have never played the game before, just starts a brand new character. They will get into their first mission and maybe get killed a few times, will a new person think "oh I'm using the wrong tactics, or I better stock up on different Inspirations", no what their going to do is level up, so they don't get killed. If you do it this way, every new player would lvl past their first contact, I don't think thats what the Devs have in mind.

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It's really sad that people don't want this game to be challenging. I was ready to quit before the +1 "bug". Now the lower levels are actually more fun than the higher ones.

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Here we have a prime example of one of the most common mistakes made by game players. The assumption that EVERYONE wants the game set to the difficulty level that they personally enjoy.

I've worked in the games industry on and off for the past 12 years, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that different people have different preferences for what they want in terms of difficulty. Why do you think that games from top level designers (Doom/Quake from Carmack, Total Annihilation from Chris Taylor, Master of Orion from Steven Barcia to name a few) have difficulty setting options.

So, you belong to that section of the populace that want the +1 mobs. I have no problem with that, more power to you. I want the same thing SOME OF THE TIME. However, after a hard day at work, I want to relax and take it easy, and most assuredly do not want to go toe-to-toe with a red con boss in a door mission.

So for that reason, we have the slider coming. It's the only rational solution to this problem.

Difficulty sliders? [Censored]

How inane is that. I dont even wanna think about the mess that will cause.

Ok, love a challenge? Go take on a gang of purples on the street. (Pre-I2)

Delete a few enchancements from a few key powers.

Let the first mob in a mission kick the crap out o you for awhile, then start fighting.

Lots o ways to find a challenge in the game. Oh, but you want EVERYBODY to have a challenge. ALL THE TIME. Interesting playstyle. Screw fun, its the challenge that counts.
Well not for me. I want a challenge, I'll go climb Mt.Everest.
I play vids for FUN.

Might I humbly point out an alternative to these mythical 'sliders;.

How bout your contacts give two class of missions.
1) Normal. (Green highlit maybe)
2) Suicide (Red highlit)

There ya go. No particular great amount o coding.

Me, I'm not really playing at all now, waiting for a patch before I even think bout playing again. Cuz overall, as it stands, I really am not having fun anymore.

It seems to me another method for determining level could be made (though it would take time and significant coding/testing effort) that would give good levels. Use a character's past history to determine level. If a character hasn't died in say 1 full level (maybe 1/2 level, whatever), all their missions get a +1 "difficulty" - probably a combination of +1 lvl mobs and more +0 mobs. Similarly, if they've died more than twice within the last level, their missions get a -1 difficulty. Start at even con of course, and slide up and down the scale based on deaths/level (so if using no deaths in 1 lvl as the guide, if you've made it through 2 lvls with no deaths, missions become +2 difficulty).

Alternatively, an easier fix instead of the mission slider (which seems to have lots of possible exploits and bugs) make a very simple hard/med/easy selectable setting for the game (maybe with a very hard and impossible setting too). Hard is +1 cons and/or more enemies, med is normal level normal #s, and easy is -1 cons and/or less cons. It could be changeable up to when the mission is accepted. To change it you have to abandon the mission, then change difficulty, then start again. For missions with multiple characters, it could be an average of what everyone has selected, or could be based on the mission owner.

Just my 2c worth. This is still a great game, I am just frustrated soloing with most of my < lvl 22 characters right now, as they don't handle red bosses well.

My take on the whole difficulty slider thing is this:

Stateman has said multiple times that making the post 22 game harder is a top priority after Update 2 is behind them. Although I'd love a difficulty slider soon (I'd crank it up when playing my blaster and down when playing my emp/def solo), if they introduce it before "fixing" the post 22 game then they are asking for a world of complaints and ticked off people later. Why? Because they'll get used to how difficult the slider makes it and then get ganked to hell and back after the post 22 fix goes in.

I think they should roll both things out at the same time. Then they'll only have to deal with one round of a$$hat griping instead of two.

Oh, and if they rolled them out at the same time, then the people inclined to whine that (insert irritating nasally voice here) "eww, you made it too hard," can turn down their sliders and get the game closer to the effortless snooze-fest they love.

Dwimble

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I believe the fix to the number of +1 mobs is in a patch being tested. I do not know when that'll go live; it depends upon what we find in it.

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This cannot be done too soon. In fact, no other issue is as important - not even stability. GET IT DONE NOW. It has been a week already!

One week? How could you do this? How could you release#2 and disregard the results for the test sderver? I understand people wanted the new features live, but not at this price.

Aw well, I guess I'll just have to collect geography badges for a few days.

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Stateman has said multiple times that making the post 22 game harder is a top priority after Update 2 is behind them. Although I'd love a difficulty slider soon (I'd crank it up when playing my blaster and down when playing my emp/def solo), if they introduce it before "fixing" the post 22 game then they are asking for a world of complaints and ticked off people later. Why? Because they'll get used to how difficult the slider makes it and then get ganked to hell and back after the post 22 fix goes in.

Dwimble

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If they are to fix the post-22 game, they better fix gimped powers like Super Reflexes, Dark Armor, Stone Armor and Ice Armor first (I guess there are many more). Characters with these powers can hardly paly the missions as they are, so DO NOT bost the difficulty until they are fixed.

Fixing this will take time, so the slider should probably go online before these changes do.

something about the mission difficulty slider bothers me. I guess it seems too metagamey to me. It won't change much to me... Yes Controllers will be able to solo by turning it down but they will get less experience doing so. They might as well stick to groups. I would rather see the classes worked on so each class can solo maybe not as well as others but be able to do it on a standard same level as the character. I'd much rather see class balancing than seeing certain classes outdistance others because they can move that slider up instead of down.

i, for one, am getting sick of being told to wait, and then getting and then having removed, and then told to wait some more for any form of challenging game play.

Statesman, CoH is turning into some bizaaro mmorg where the efforts and opinions of the skilled player are not only NOT rewarded but viewed with contempt.

why is it perfectly acceptable (and done much too frequently) to tell the competent player, "If YOU think missions are too boring becuase they are too easy, then just dont do them."

but it is tantamount to sacrilege for the skilled player to replay back, "NO! If YOU think the missions are too hard then YOU don't do them!"

my reward for being a skilled player? i have to resort to excluding myself from the the largest and most thought out facet of CoH . . . the mission system.

Why is the typical response to thinking the game is too unchallenging, "Play a specifically gimped charatcer, don't use all your powers or make use of inspirations"?

But if the competent players replies, "No. YOU need to play better. You need to build better. You need to build stronger in-game relationships" he is labelled an elitist?

my reward for being a competent player? i shouldnt play the AT or power sets i want. i should not use all the powers, resources, and tools available to everyone else in the game. i must, basically, restrict my access to the full spectrum of the game becuase someone else's self esteem might get dented?

shouldnt the difficulty level of the game be set at a height that requires the player to leap to attain it (we are player Super Heroes, are we not?). instead the challenge level is set so low that any hint of challenge any change introduces is labelled a bug that must be "fixed".

bullying even con minions is not my idea of fun. you know what is? the "bug" that came with Update 2. slamming my (less than 20th level) newbie character against hordes of +1 minions and RED con bosses. getting sent to the hospital and having to work out a means to win. and trying, and failing again, and finally beating that bastiges!

i know, that's crazy talk . . . let's get this "plethora of +1 mobs" bug "fixed" so we can all get back to our naps.

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Lots o ways to find a challenge in the game. Oh, but you want EVERYBODY to have a challenge. ALL THE TIME. Interesting playstyle. Screw fun, its the challenge that counts.
Well not for me. I want a challenge, I'll go climb Mt.Everest.
I play vids for FUN.

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And some people find a big challenge to be fun. (Just as some people enjoy climbing Mt Everest, something I doubt you could manage anyways). Difficulty Sliders would allow players to adjust missions so they fit their own playstyles. The players who want a challenge will be able to get a challenge, without screwing over the people who just want to solo. Street mobs wouldn't need to be changed, and should always be sort of a middle ground.

And this is the difficulty the Devs have to face, which is trying to create a game that everyone can enjoy. Unfortunetly, not everyone has the same idea on what is and is not easy and difficult. And in the end, it is far better for the game to be easy then it is for the game to be too hard.

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As for Update 2 being for "power gamers", I can honestly say that there was absolutely NO attempt to increase the game's difficulty. The conglomeration of bugs/mistakes have created this impression (beginning with the +1 mobs everywhere).

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Yeah, but us powergamers love the increased difficulty. The Hollows is a perfect example of how challenging high end game should be.

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And some people find a big challenge to be fun.


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No argument here.
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(just as some people enjoy climbing Mt Everest, something I doubt you could manage anyways).


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yeah, thats relevant I guess to the issue at hand.

I didnt say big challenges could'nt be fun.

The problem is a door mission solo'd (dont tell me not to solo, ok?) by a fire/dev blaster that
isnt challenging could be VERY challenging for a emp/psi defender. Might be fun for the defender. Maybe.
Now thats a fact of this game. Same Mission.

Making ALL missions harder isnt the way to FIX the game.
Now, the Good Statesman has said thats going to change.
So everyone that LOVES the way the game is right now, guess thats bad news to you.

But dont think I want a do-it-in-my-sleep-game. I stopped playing my fire/dev at 30 for just that reason.
(Course now, he might be a bit more interesting to play...)

I just think that introducing different mission types as something available from contacts would be easier
to implement than these "sliders".

Depending on which is more time-consuming and
resource intensive
1) Sliders - coding and testing time required.
2) Alternate mission levels - writing and testing

Shoot, who knows, maybe using whatever in-house tool they use to develop content might be cheaper and easier to devote resources to than the coding that a sliding difficulty level might bring. Two choices might cover enough common ground.

And personally, I think if you get 'defeated' in a mission...then the mission should complete ...with failure.
(You got beat...right?)

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I believe the fix to the number of +1 mobs is in a patch being tested. I do not know when that'll go live; it depends upon what we find in it.


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Oh thank Gawd. I have been accumulating more debt on my blaster since this patch went live than ever before. I have not touched my Fire/Fire Controller since, I was allready a debt magnet before with that one. Glad to see this getting fixed.

I skipped about the last 10 threads, so if this has been said, forgive me.

Earlier someone assumed that because no one was speaking against diffuculty sliders, that it meant everyone wanted them. This is a very silly assumption to make. What is someone who doesn't want the slider going to say? "Oh, I don't want the sliders, cuz I might accidentally bump up the diffuculty too much, or make it too easy?" I don't think so. Personally, I'm indifferent to them. I love the +1 bosses when I'm grouping, but solo'ing it is too much to take (I'll get into why later). Does it mean I hate teh game? No. Does it mean I want sliders ASAP? No. Does it mean I'll have faith in Statesman to get the game he invisions? Yes. (and btw, people -- at the end, it is the dev's game. Right now they are being incredibly dedicated to listening to the players, but they are also being incredibly talented at choosing which options lead to a better game that they want to play -- and judging by what I've read of his comments, Statesman does play this game out there somewhere.)

I think I've finally figured out why the +1's are so annoying for so many classes, and it's not the +1. By natural scaling, a boss is ranked as a slightly superior version of whichever class they spawn as -- a Ruin Mage, Prince, or Eilodon for example. So that's no big deal -- if you are intellegent, you can beat these guys at your level.

The problem is that bosses are never alone -- they always have 1, if not 2 lieutenaunts around, and however number of minions. This is just how boss rooms spawn. Therefore, even though you could take each of these +1 elements individually, you can't unless you have amazingly good draw abilities (note that drawing classes are those that seem to be complaining about the patch the least... and it's something most low-level chars don't have). So you have to contend with all these elements -- Like in my cape mission, I had 3 Anathema wandering around, all orange to me, and this was the solo version.

so what's the solution? I honestly don't know. I figure the slider would configure the # of mobs, their respective levels, and so on... I think the easiest way to fix it, without having the challenge be insane, is just to say that characters higher than Lieutenaunt class can never spawn higher than the level the mission was taken on. This would fix quite a bit, at least in the short term, without nerfing the diffuculty fo those around the boss, the diffuculty when it large groups, and the use of tactics. (Of course, if the patch is already in internal QA, then my last point was moot. But I'm gonna say it anyways. )

Also, back on the case of the sliders: I hope to high heaven that they disable the slider for some missions -- namely for Task Forces, special missions like respec and capes, and other missions which are meant to be truly spectacular, epic, and life-changing for your character. I like knowing that if I want to tackle positron at lvl 10 or 11, that I would need massive amounts of help to beat it. TO just whisk away that with a slider would defeat the whole reason why TF's exist. Now, a LENGTH slider might be nice, for those who don't have time -- IE you can select multiple TF's from a guy, say Short, Medium, Long -- and only the long one would get you the SO, the badge, the souveneir, so on.. but the short and medium's, would let you get the XP bonuses and build towards the final story.

So.. ya. My unorganized thoughts. =)

Athenor

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yeah, thats relevant I guess to the issue at hand.

I didnt say big challenges could'nt be fun.

The problem is a door mission solo'd (dont tell me not to solo, ok?) by a fire/dev blaster that
isnt challenging could be VERY challenging for a emp/psi defender. Might be fun for the defender. Maybe.
Now thats a fact of this game. Same Mission.

Making ALL missions harder isnt the way to FIX the game.
Now, the Good Statesman has said thats going to change.
So everyone that LOVES the way the game is right now, guess thats bad news to you.

But dont think I want a do-it-in-my-sleep-game. I stopped playing my fire/dev at 30 for just that reason.
(Course now, he might be a bit more interesting to play...)

I just think that introducing different mission types as something available from contacts would be easier
to implement than these "sliders".

Depending on which is more time-consuming and
resource intensive
1) Sliders - coding and testing time required.
2) Alternate mission levels - writing and testing

Shoot, who knows, maybe using whatever in-house tool they use to develop content might be cheaper and easier to devote resources to than the coding that a sliding difficulty level might bring. Two choices might cover enough common ground.

And personally, I think if you get 'defeated' in a mission...then the mission should complete ...with failure.
(You got beat...right?)

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Wait, when did Statesman say that missions were going to be made harder? He said Hitpoints might be upped for the Upper-Tier of villians, and he has discussed the slider, but he has said nothing about trying to make everything more difficult.

And the difficulty sliders would only make the missions tougher *IF* the player chose a harder difficulty. Besides, what about people who find the current missions too difficult as is? Having suicide missions instead of a slider won't help them.

I'm of mixed feelings about the +1 bug.

I'm glad that the devs recognize the bug and are addressing it - kudos !!

With my 30th level MA/Inv scrapper, it's made things more interesting. I was having fun before, still having fun plus the random element of uncertainty has made it more fun.

With my 12th level Tanker, it's a totally different story. Very very discouraging. A max/min powergamer would be in heaven, but others would just find it frustrating.

Those that are used to the game, and have built characters with the knowledge they've gained doing it before - well, they can "build characters around it" (which they already have, if they designed their character for powergaming rather than by a particular superhero design.

New players would probably quit, since they'd experience much frustration before reaching any real fun points.

A difficulty slider would be the ultimate solution. That would satisfy both camps, and those that have characters in each camp. Until that comes out, I think I'd prefer the bug removed. Boredom may result in people drifiting away from the game, but frustration will lose new customers immediately, and encourage existing ones to take a break for awhile.

My 2 influence worth

I would love to see the +1 mob level continue for the post 30 game, as well as the other fixes being considered (hp increase with xp increase). Seem like a really good solution to alpha strikes, gets the tank involved ( I have not been as involved in the high game so much as this update, yay!), and make controllers FAR more important in controlling mobs. I'm loving it. Before the update, I was defeated maybe 2 to 5 times since the last update, on this update, I have already gone down 3 times that I can remember. I'm challenged, and what a wonderful fun feeling that is. Inadvertantly, you created some fun with this bug, and it will be a sad day when it goes away in the post 30 game.

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After leave 30, +1 should be the minimum mob you get in a mission (including bosses). There should also be a healthy amount of +2s as well.

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God no! Some AT/builds never get the uber ability of the elite builds even at high lvl.

My energy / energy blaster cannot kill higher con mobs at lvl 45 that I could at lvl 20!

Why?

Because my relative hits compared to the mobs has dropped to a fraction of what it used to be and energy/energy never get any ranged status effects or debuff powers to take the edge of enemies. But mobs get more and more exotic powers to make my life difficult.

I really fear the difficulty increase comming since the difficulty right now makes it really tough to play an energy / energy blaster at high lvl.

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I am an Energy/Energy blaster, and at lvl 45 I easily able to dispatch lvl 48s... and now that I'm lvl 48, I'm killing 51s and 52s with ease in missions...

Sorry that you just dont understand how to play a blaster. Like i said in another post, there are controllers and defenders who have a good time playing it safe with pets. Or even a tank who will never get hit. You should try that, because you are failing as a blaster if you cant kill anything higher lvl than you.

(This is my morning of trolling, because there seems to be a whole lot of whines and [censored] about things that are actually good for the game. God forbid, you actually have to sit and heal a second in a mission before you go on.)

Oh and if you think soloing a red boss at 14 is hard, try soloing a Wisp Overlord surrounded by Overseers... you have no idea what difficulty is. But you know what, beating them was very gratifying because I lived up to and beat the challenge. A concept that many of you seem to be unable to grasp.

[ QUOTE ]
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After leave 30, +1 should be the minimum mob you get in a mission (including bosses). There should also be a healthy amount of +2s as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

God no! Some AT/builds never get the uber ability of the elite builds even at high lvl.

My energy / energy blaster cannot kill higher con mobs at lvl 45 that I could at lvl 20!

Why?

Because my relative hits compared to the mobs has dropped to a fraction of what it used to be and energy/energy never get any ranged status effects or debuff powers to take the edge of enemies. But mobs get more and more exotic powers to make my life difficult.

I really fear the difficulty increase comming since the difficulty right now makes it really tough to play an energy / energy blaster at high lvl.

[/ QUOTE ]


I am an Energy/Energy blaster, and at lvl 45 I easily able to dispatch lvl 48s... and now that I'm lvl 48, I'm killing 51s and 52s with ease in missions...

Sorry that you just dont understand how to play a blaster. Like i said in another post, there are controllers and defenders who have a good time playing it safe with pets. Or even a tank who will never get hit. You should try that, because you are failing as a blaster if you cant kill anything higher lvl than you.

(This is my morning of trolling, because there seems to be a whole lot of whines and [censored] about things that are actually good for the game. God forbid, you actually have to sit and heal a second in a mission before you go on.)

Oh and if you think soloing a red boss at 14 is hard, try soloing a Wisp Overlord surrounded by Overseers... you have no idea what difficulty is. But you know what, beating them was very gratifying because I lived up to and beat the challenge. A concept that many of you seem to be unable to grasp.

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Agreed.

It really juts boils down to:

HARD
There are some people who find it fun to fight villains that are higher level than themselves, for various reasons. They get more xp per villain.

EASY
There are some people who find it fun to fight villains that are lower level than themselves, for various reasons. They get less xp per villain. However they will (probably) kill at a faster rate, and hopefully make a comparable amount of xp/hour.



So if missions are marked with a difficulty, then people would be able to choose the difficulty of their mission.

If the difficulty is chosen via a slider, then as long as the slider can't be adjusted in mid-mission to make one particular foe weaker, then that's okay in my opinion.

If the difficulty is just a field in the mission description when you choose Mission A or B - as in Mission A(easy) Mission B(hard), then that would be all right as well to me.
Just have the difficult mission spawn the mobs as +1 compared to the regular missions.

---

I started a tank to see the lower levels again, and it's a lot of waiting around for myself to heal up before I deal with the next +1 group in missions. I know it's a bug, but I still have to say that +1 means a lot of downtime between fights for him. +1 at Level 5 is Level 6 villains - you could say the villains are 20% higher level than my hero! hehe.



Upsen.

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I believe the fix to the number of +1 mobs is in a patch being tested. I do not know when that'll go live; it depends upon what we find in it.

Mission difficulty slider - I won't make any promises until I'm sure of a date, but I have stated I want this as soon as the schedule allows. Issue 3? I'd love it; but there's a TON of things to consider and I don't want to roll something out that isn't satisfactory.

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Tell ya the truth, I was kind of enjoying the +1 mobs - added a lot more variety to those indoor missions! I thought it was a new feature!!! Very cool to be a L20, start a misson with L20's then hit mobs ranging from 18 to 22. Keeps you on yor toes.

In the meantime, I'll wait with baited breath for the difficulty slider

... you sure you can't leave this bug in?

*disclaimer* - I am a newbie player with CoH

I started playing right before P2. Ive played every AT with many variations of those AT's. Prior to P2, doing a mission requried no skill, no luck, no strategy. Rush,kill,rush,kill

I thought it was fun if not easy. Exp sucked though

After P2, I rolled a FF/Elec defender and decided this char would do all missions and story arcs. I even got the badge killing 100 contaminated skulls in the tuturial. Fun I do my first mission in the hollows and...........

Enter mission and confronted with 2 yellows(Im 8 so they were 9) and a orange LT. Get aggro from them as soon as I walk around corner. Fight the minions first and run back to entrance fighting the Lt.(good ole EQ, fighting at zone walls). I barely live but their dead. Run through mission errr correction crawl through mission since most things come in groups of 3. Fight 1 more orange Lt. Almost died Fun Fun Fun.
Get to the end and Im confronted with a red boss I laugh thinking, great my first time getting debt. I walk into a square room with the middle filled in. I kite that ******* boss around that room for 10 mins. It only takes 2 shots and my health is at a sliver. I finally kill him. My hands are shaking and I just had one of those moments "take that you *******" feeling. Very nice

The reason for the post....well this is coming from someone that has not gotten a char over 20. But pre 20 after P2, the game has gotten harder but still doable. People need to think before rushing into battle now. But, I cant help to think that there are going to be AT types that cant handle the increased difficulty. Having a slider on missions to set difficulty would be a good thing. AO used it to great effect and would help those that dont want the added difficulty with those builds that might not be able to handle them. If someone wanted to set the slider to low for their missions and hunt harder mobs on the streets, what effect does that have on everyone else?? Theres no loot therefore nothing to exploit or better yet "farm". You might receive a badge for doing missions but do you really think that badge is going to confer any benefits? I dont think so. Only negative I see is fewer people to group with for street figthing since everyone will be doing missions.

You have two distinct groups:

Scrapper - he sets his mission difficulty to insane(they do seem to be touched) and starts killing reds with a boss in every clump of mobs. He is in heaven

Controller - he sets his mission difficulty to easy and completes his missions easily enough. He does his misisions only to open up buying inspirations at contacts. Does most of his exp'ing in groups on the streets.

Easy in theory, not sure about coding this.

DrDemento
FF/Elec defender