+1 mobs on missions? Keep them please
By
123456789,
Posted on: 2004-09-19 13:53 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
There's going to be one problem with the slider. The leader of the group is likely going to be the one that sets the slider. If they set it to whatever they want without caring about what their teammates want, then you could be in for insta-debt or cakewalk, depending on the setting. Insta-debt difficulty may be a way for mean players to get their kicks watching random teammates die (set difficulty high, start mission, drop group as soon as the first fight starts).
Some kind of agreement system from the entire group on the slider setting will have to implemented to assure everyone agrees with the current difficulty setting. Otherwise you may get stuck with something way too hard or disgustingly easy because the leader felt like it.
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they have more hp tougher? then you better give my controller her old phantom army back with the current 60 second duration - because even with phantasm she can barely handle her missions as it is. and yes, she IS a rad secondary.
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A few words for ya.. Dev Digest 
Make a special note to the word "oomph!" and what he is trying to say here.
A statement about increased HP for mobs, from Statesmen
+1s in missions post-20 is a great idea that I wholeheartedly support. They tend to be somewhat yawn inducing because you finally have enough powers and slots in those powers (and of course, SOs) that even cons are not a significant challenge...sub-20, however, it rather sucks. I had a Hollows mission which I had let lapse for a level, and at the end was an Outcast lightning boss and a Troll Brick fighting each other...both orange. Doing it at the given level would have had them both red. Try starting a new toon and fighting Outcast and Trolls now to see just how fun this is. It isn't.
Even better was the red Outcast boss, not really categorized, he was essentially an archvillian but with boss stats (He was the founder of the Outcasts, and was some sort of bizarre fire/ice controller/blaster). He led off every fight with an ice hold, stacked a disorient on top of it (so when the Hold went away, I was still stunned), and unleashed both Fire Imps and a Jack Frost. Plus the fire and ice nukes, the ice ones of course having the lovely unresistable slow effect which made my recovery rate turn into nonexistance. In one attempt, I popped 3 Lucks, and he held me before I even got to him to take a swing. This is on a level 11 mission. That he was incredibly too hard is a severe understatement.
Also, in the very low levels (sub-15), +1s in the missions give, IMO, too much xp. I'm keeping myself in permadebt, and I'm still in danger of outleveling my contacts, story arcs, trials and task forces.
Great Wall of Prophecy, reveal to us God's will that we may blindly obey.
Free us from thought and responsibility
We shall read things off of you.
Then do them
Your words guide us.
We're dumb
Geez my controller stills solos well better infact and hes illusion by the way. The changes to PA I like alot better but anyway, I suggest statesman that we receive pets earlier like in place of our most effective holds and switch places with them.Animate stone in place of Earhtquake make earthquake a level 26 power and volacanic gases level 32. Fire imps in place of cinders, singularity in place of gravity distortion field, Flash freeze a level 26 power JackFrost a level 18 Power Glacier a level 32 power. I dont see nothing wrong with Illusion really and Mind controllers should get a power which let them get certain villlans as pets called complete control where you have a chance to control a leut or boss but with a chance to arrgo if failed to hit. Just my thoughts 
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if you cant handle groups of 3 +1 minions then you can always get help or level up to finish it.
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Most people don't want to restrict themselves to three missions/level, and the way door missions are spawning villains, that's pretty much what this amounts to.
Also, yellow minions = orange lts. = red bosses, and before you get SOs, red bosses are very difficult to deal with. I was having trouble with an orange clockwork knight just a bit ago, and found that for all I wanted to do some playing, I didn't want to fight Clocks, Vahz, or CoT or Tsoo spawning at +1 because in each case, their powers and higher ranking villains make soloing all but impossible, and the best answer is not "get help." Sometimes, it's fine, and sometimes I don't want to deal with someone else on my missions. More than half the time, they really make the experience worse - I've lost count of the number of defenders and controllers I've had teamed with me because I needed assistance who carelessly aggro'd half the map when I was out of endurance. That's not help, that's debt waiting to happen.
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now tell me, which side of that coin needs to fixed?
remove the +1s from missions and wait for a difficulty slider to get coded and for beefed up minions to get balanced?
or just leave the +1s minions there until the difficulty slider and beefed up minions can be added?
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How about:
Remove the spawning of +1 anythings in mission doors pre-25th level (and even post-25th level, some bosses and lts spawning at +1 will make soloing extremely difficult for some ATs and builds) and wait for the mission difficulty slider.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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Personally, I prefer having +1 mobs on missions...it makes doing the missions even more worthwhile from an xp perspective on top of being a little bit more of a challenge, particularly if soloing alot of missions.
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The missions are fine being +1 for those who can use SO's, but for those below lvl 22, some are extremely difficult to impossible. I can go up to +2 mobs with my lvl 29 blaster and get by ok, but my 12 scrapper just can't take all the mezzes and orange and red bosses in some of these missions.
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The missions are fine being +1 for those who can use SO's, but for those below lvl 22, some are extremely difficult to impossible. I can go up to +2 mobs with my lvl 29 blaster and get by ok, but my 12 scrapper just can't take all the mezzes and orange and red bosses in some of these missions.
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I don't think most of the people who want to keep the +1 spawns realize that they're speaking from the perspective of one or both of: playing characters who have one of their defining powers (like, say, phantom army for an illusion controller) or having fully slotted SOs.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
Have to agree with Kali I for one love the difficulty very much but if this subject keeps going on maybe they should make the game back to its easienest until the slider comes. I will just go back to meaningless street hunting until then, not going to waste my time fighting even con mobs and lower with my at's in missions.
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Plus, we'll put in a difficulty slider (can't promise a time yet or else my producer will kill me).
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Never, I hope. I think that difficulty sliders will only make things harder for casual gamers.
The only way you make a mission harder in CoH is to fill the mission with a greater number of MOBs, higher-level MOBs, or both. In either case, you're talking about an increase in the amount of time needed to complete the mission.
Anarchy Online has sliders, and -every- team chooses the highest possible difficulty they can handle. The result is missions that are (literally, without embellishment) three hours long; if you can't play for at least three hours, you can't find a team. Difficulty sliders in Anarchy Online have made the highest-difficulty missions the "standard" expectation. Most players don't want to team with you if you want to do anything less difficult because the XP isn't as good. Sure, you can solo, if you don't mind gaining XP at a rate roughly one-fifth the rate of people who are teaming.
I like being able to play CoH in 60-minute sessions and get productive teaming. I've got a full-time job and two kids, so the ability to do productive gaming in short sessions is a huge selling point for me and others in similar circumstances. I hope the devs will consider this and not create an Anarchy-Online situation that makes the game unplayable for people who can't play three hours at a time.
Just dont add the option to groups this should be a solo option only. When you enter a mission it should turn the option off if you have anyone with you as a team.
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Also, yellow minions = orange lts. = red bosses, and before you get SOs, red bosses are very difficult to deal with.
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3 Lucks, 2 Enrages, 4 Breaths, 1 Awaken. That's what I used to defeat Electric Eel and Bedrock (the two Hollows Ouctast mission) at level 11 with no enhancers at all in my powers. Not even training enhancers. Fire / Dev blaster and the only dev power I used was Caltrops. I didn't even have targeting drone running because of the end drain. It's very possible to defeat red bosses without enhancers in your powers.
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I don't think most of the people who want to keep the +1 spawns realize that they're speaking from the perspective of one or both of: playing characters who have one of their defining powers (like, say, phantom army for an illusion controller) or having fully slotted SOs.
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No, I am speaking from the perspective of a character without full slotted powers. I'll be trying out the Outcast missions with my controller today (she's lvl 10 or 11, no DO's yet) and my tanker tomorrow or the day after.
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Never, I hope. I think that difficulty sliders will only make things harder for casual gamers.
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What the frell are you talking about? Harder for casual gamers? Start the team yourself if you can't handle a challenge. You'll be able to use the Super Easy slider option and killed mobs as a controller, using just Brawl. That sure sounds like a lot of fun. 
/sarcasm
I want the slider, and I want it as soon as possible. Especially if the mission difficulties are nerfed into boring, pathetic cakewalks. I've been having a blast playing again. Pre-issue #2 I was bored with the game. It was way too easy. Way too easy.
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Just dont add the option to groups this should be a solo option only. When you enter a mission it should turn the option off if you have anyone with you as a team.
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No... I want the slider option for groups and solo play. You have no right to tell me how to play the game with my friends. If we want more difficult missions, we should have that right. If you want to play on Super Easy mode, be my guest... because that's what the missions were like pre-issue #2.
I can understand the complaints that missions solo are too hard with the +1 Spawned mobs everywhere. I like having the challenge of the +1 Minions, even at pre lvl 10 and the teen levels, I enjoyed it... On everything EXCEPT the bosses (And occasionally some Lts, cause some Lts were just downright nasty, ESPECIALLY with the Outcast), hell Bone Daddies alone were suicide at the lower levels even when they were EVEN con (Oranges). I would ALWAYS have to level above a mission that had a Bone Daddy at the end of it to even HOPE to have a chance Solo... I can't even imagine what it would be like to have to go up against one when its +1 above me solo.
Even at 27 Orange bosses for my Defender are a hefty challenge, a red boss requires a great deal of luck to survive, and I am a Radiation Defender so I can use Infection to make em less effective, and they are STILL hard. Having +1 Minion is great, and in some cases +1 Lts (Although again, some of THEM are insanely hard too if they have lots of Stunns, Mezzes, Knockdowns, or Holds ala Shamans, Spirits, and the like) but having +1 Bosses for the MAJORITY of AT's that dont have Holds, or High Damage Ranged/Melee attacks, can be suicidal and are more often an exercise is frustration.
And if you increase the difficulty of all Post level 22 Mobs, my Defender will be out again unless I either get really beefed up in the damage department, or get a bit more damage with less endurance, because as is it is pretty hard to keep up even at level 27 in quite a few fights. 
As a 27 Radiation Defender, I do not HAVE access to SO's or lots of slots for my primary and most used powers. Such as Endurance recovery, ToHit Debuffs, and Defence Drain and such... So that is ALSO a drawback. These changes may be great for the Blasters and Scrappers, and in some cases a Tanker since they can outlast them, but for the majority of Tankers, Defenders, and Controllers. (Even some Blasters and Scrappers) it would severly handicap us.
Well, I assume missions are still getting +1 mobs a lot, as I haven't seen any update notes to the contrary, and I just ran several door missions last night, and lots of +1s.
I think the Mission Difficulty slider is a MUST before you jack up the SL 22+ minions. I'm not such a bad build (fire/fire blaster, SL 21) and I am getting my [censored] handed to me on a regular basis with these changes. I have NO ability to resist psionics from the Tsoo or Banished Pantheons. This is the time (SL 21+) that most folks move out of the lower villains (CoT, Clocks, Skulls, Hellions, Lost) and move into the next tier (Pantheons, Tsoo, Warriors, Freakshow, Sky Raiders, uber 5th Column) and without the ability to resist psionics, yellow minions are death. Because they almost always bring their orange LT's into the fray. Even at SL 22, when SO's are available, not everyone has the influence to replace all the enhancement slots they have.
Yes, I've tried strategies... I know better how to pull some of the minions off the LT's and deal with them one at a time. But unfortunately, I don't have any stealth powers, but looks like I'll be forced to at SL 22 just to stay alive. If you're not able to team, and street sweeping yields lower XP than missions, what is a hero to do? Not play? Play only when they can dedicate time to finding/building a team to play?
I came over from another MMORPG that had a way to deal with mission difficulty (based on the group you were in and the weapon you had equipped, your skills, etc.) and I know that won't work here. So if not a slider, can we at least have a choice of 2 missions - easy or hard - when we talk to the contact? It'd be, say, 0 and +1 mobs for now. And of course the XP will automagically scale based on the minion's level, like it does now.
I agree with you +1 folks that are enjoying the difficulty. I know a score of folks who don't post here who both agree and disagree with you. I don't want to see you guys get whacked. But if the fixes aren't good, then reverting back to the previous setting is what needs to be done, in the interim.
For the love of God leave the +1 level mobs in the missions.
Before all of you roll your eyes and say "you must have a x AT and it's easy for all of you." Let me tell you my 2 characters that I play.
1. Main Toon: Tank - Inv/SS
Pre-Patch I never even turned my toggles on because with them on it was just not a challenge. The only challenge was to see if my endurance recovered fully by the time I found more mobs to slap around.
After the Patch, sometimes I wonder if I am going to even make it out alive of some fights (Behemoth Monsters that have Invincibility paired with 2 or 3 Fire Thorns that can hold/fire blast). THAT is fun for me because I have to use strategy, inspirations (before patch I don't think I used a single inspiration) and strategy to get through the fights.
2. I also have a defender, Empathy/Dark. level 6.
Yesterday I got that mission to clear Outcasts from the base. Went in with a full group, we got slaughtered (mainly by the patrol). However I went back solo and completed the mission. Was it easy? Nope. Was there an Orange boss waiting for me at the end? Yep. I was ducking in and out of Line of Sight the whole fight, keeping him at a distance and firing from around corners and such. Was an awesome fight.
Summary: Pre-Patch those of us that wanted a challenge had to ignore missions, they just didn't have any challenge to them. After patch those that want it easy now have to ignore missions until sliders comes in ... sounds fair to me.
I have played this game every single day (save one I spent in hospital) since it came out. I have had fun every time I played. Until this weekend. Not only did you decide to put more spawns in missions, you decided to make more +1s. I have read that a lot of people are happy with this change, but I am not one of them. I don't want an increased challenge, nor do I wish to team. Ever. I liked the missions my blaster could do in 10 minutes or so. It's fine if some people want more challenge, don't take that from them, but please give us the slider ASAP. And when you do so, consider making it from -2 to +2, not 0 to +2. I know for my defenders/controllers my missions will be all blue.
I love to solo. Simply put, and I don't think I'm alone in this sentiment, if I can't solo my missions, I won't play.
I really trust that these devs will do it right, but Im very interested to know how a difficulty slider will fit into the story. Or will it just be one of those things you suspend your disbelief on?
Whatever they do, a difficulty slider sounds like a great solution.
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We're going to be tweaking with 22+ mobs soon...they'll be tougher, and give more XP....
Plus, we'll put in a difficulty slider (can't promise a time yet or else my producer will kill me).
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I don't like this idea at all! your taking away the feeling of progression. All levels will feel the same you'll just have more powers if u make the mobs tougher. The game is great right now! Towards the later levels you really strart to feel like a superhero. Don't take this away.
Use the mission slider and make the mobs tougher in the hazard zones to encourage grouping.
Have to agree as well. I think it should stay the way it ius now with the mobs and missions. I myself have had alot of fun, and yes have noticed the increased difficulty. It is very much enjoyable (It was before, but at the same time it did seem a little to easy.). I was able to solo the cape mission easy, despite what many have said about it, Did it with a group and found it to be a little more difficult. Some people who protest the increased difficulty have a good reason and legitimate facts, but majority are just upset (as it seems) that they can no longer depend -fully- on solo play alone. That is for a one player game, not a MMO game. Hell even Super Man couldn't cakewalk through Lex Luther's compound. Batman had one hell of a time with Two-Face, Mr. Freeze, and other arch-villians. Why should it be any different in City of Heroes? That takes the fun away when instead of being difficult (which would make it more gratifying at the end) it's now too easy.
You're *actually* working on a difficulty slider? WOW, I'm friggin' amazed. That seemed so psychotically out of character for an MMO, I just can't believe it, wow. I'm not personally really waiting on it, but I'm *damn* impressed you're going to deliver one!
No.. mob levels in missions must be turned back to where they were.
Reasons are stated by many people who came to these boards to express their dissatisfaction.
I must admit, that I'm okay with +1 mobs in missions. It's a bit of a challenge, and that's fun.
However, in my experience it's been more than that. My level 9 MA/Inv Scrapper was soloing last night, and I entered the "stop the Clockwork before the Skulls arrive" mission. +1 Clockwork, not too bad. Until I stepped around a corner, and saw 3 level 10 Cannon Knights, surrounded by 2 10 Oscillators and 1 10 Sprocket. Okay...that's not so cool.
After popping 5 insps, including 3 Lucks, and suicidally jumping into the fray, I take out the two Oscillators, the Sprocket, two of the Knights and seriously damage the third. I croaked when the FOURTH level 10 Cannon Knight and the SECOND Sprocket hit me. They were standing next to the other guys, just around the corner.
Now, this was a "clear" mission, so I had to kill them all. They were all grouped in a 15-20 foot radius. There was no way to pull any out.
While my 18 Blaster may have had a chance at a fight like that, there's no way my level 9 Scrapper can possibly survive that fight. And I didn't.
So +1's in missions isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I'd have to argue against it myself. While powergamers might find something like that interesting at level 9, any casual player is going to think of quitting after a sight like that. The only reason I even survived that long was because I am a more hardcore gamer, I can't even imagine what a casual player would have done in that situation...die 5 or 6 times?
So really, for the lower levels, I don't think +1's are smart. For higher levels, sure! I'd be all for that. But please, let the lower levels be a little easier on my nerves
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Also, yellow minions = orange lts. = red bosses, and before you get SOs, red bosses are very difficult to deal with.
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3 Lucks, 2 Enrages, 4 Breaths, 1 Awaken. That's what I used to defeat Electric Eel and Bedrock (the two Hollows Ouctast mission) at level 11 with no enhancers at all in my powers. Not even training enhancers. Fire / Dev blaster and the only dev power I used was Caltrops. I didn't even have targeting drone running because of the end drain. It's very possible to defeat red bosses without enhancers in your powers.
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Sure, except that I used all my inspirations to fight the lieutenant/minion groups that also spawned at +1, so I had to go back and buy more to handle the next group, and so on until getting to the boss. Using inspirations to defeat bosses is not rocket science. No Bothan had to die to bring us that information - it is fundamentally obvious to use them for such. Unfortunately, getting to red bosses also requires the use of inspirations.
Also, I suspect you fought Electric Eel before the change to Outcasts that gave Lead Shockers access to Hurricane, because without insights, targeting drone, or accuracy enhancements, you're whiffing when you don't have aim up, and you're probably not killing him with the attacks you get while aim is up.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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No.. mob levels in missions must be turned back to where they were.
Reasons are stated by many people who came to these boards to express their dissatisfaction.
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Many of the players who say they want a challenge are pretty self-absorbed in terms of gameplay. They don't want anything other than what's specifically convenient for them, as opposed to a broader base of gameplay that would more easily cater to all styles...and maintaining accessible play until that broader base is established.
Instead, they want everyone to fight Godzilla with a putty knife and call it a good show because that's what they want to do.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
I did some mission on saturday as 37 blaster duoing with a teammate 38 blaster and it was fun !
I really like the changes to missions. Before that missions with less than 4 poeple especially in the 30s where mostly boring, u were just moving and blasting everything as u saw them. But with issue 2 missions are challenging, we had to get ready before engaging, had to use lots of inspi, and died sometimes. But in the end with had no debt, so xp was good and the mission being challenging were so much fun