Statesman: Please don't make this mistake

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Two things: you will slow down XP gain. Fighting mobs just for the hell of it gets old.

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Huh?!?! Again, for the hard of thinking, and those unable to read, experience is scaling with mob difficulty...

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Secondly, you forget that one of the most important things about superheroes is that they are often ABLE to take out masses of enemies.

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If you want to take out masses of villains at once, you still can. If you want to take out masses of villains who are just as powerful as you? Go back to D2...

Just because they are "minions" doesn't mean, by any stretch, that they aren't as strong as you are... Now, the term "even con minion" will be more in line with actually taking on soemone almost as strong as you...hence the "even con".

The color is supposed to relate NOT to "level" but to relative power in comparison to you. "even con" is supposed to be more or less equal in power.

At present, that just isn't true.

You want to be "heroic" by taking out massive groups?! Go after underlings like the superheroes in the comics...

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The point is being more effective at fighting level 50 mobs than you were at level 1.

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I think, to a lot of people, this will feel like "Well i'm level 50 now and fighting Rikti... of course, since i can only take on 3 minions at a time, they might as well be hellions with superswords of anal probage."

Actually, he wouldn't even be fighting rikti... he'd probably be fighting their probes.

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You want to be "heroic" by taking out massive groups?! Go after underlings like the superheroes in the comics...

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I really can't imagine superman looking powerful while fighting rikti monkeys...

*shrugs*

If this is the way the game is going, I'll admit that I have some serious reservations about it, but I'll give it a chance. If i don't like it, I can always leave, after all.


And anyway, the "massive groups" argument really only flies against AoE... And I don't think these changes are going to help a whole lot against AoE... Single target heroes are deadlocked into 3 minions, but AoE heroes, (Say a spiney scrapper) can overpower the minions and...

...Wait a minute. Is the core of the "too easy" situation that people can rack up xp easily and quickly? Through AoE's, especially? Is the minion beef-up intended to protect them from Alpha Strikes? Is this a case of rebalancing the entire game thanks to FOTM?

I digressed, but the thought just occured to me.



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I went from fighting well against Level 1s to fighting well against Level 50s, but I didn't get any more powerful!

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I think the reasoning behind that is that you are capable of no more than you used to be... The powers you gain are you trying to "keep up" with the game; Not get stronger.

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Just because they are "minions" doesn't mean, by any stretch, that they aren't as strong as you are... Now, the term "even con minion" will be more in line with actually taking on soemone almost as strong as you...hence the "even con".

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You do know that Statesman has already said it should be 3 minions = 1 hero don't you?

BTW, I am still waiting for that video of you taking on those +6 mobs. You have zero credibility because you can't seem to tell the truth and refuse to research any of your answers. Until you learn that other people can fact check your stupid *** posts, you might want to refrain from making any posts.

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I really can't imagine superman looking powerful while fighting rikti monkeys...

*shrugs*

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I can't imagine you actually being able to create a "superman" character in CoH, either...

*shrugs*

See, look at Batman or the Punisher. I use them because they're really the only superheroes you see fighting large groups at once...unless it's a Super Group vs a Supervillain Group...

Now, does Batman or the Punisher fight large groups of EQUALLY POWERFUL villains? No... Do they fight large numbers of WEAKER powered HENCHMEN? Yes. Minions are standard villains. Underlings are the fodder that gets thrown at the superheroes... THIS is what superheroes "fight large groups [of]"... Not regular old bad guys. Regular old bad guys are a bit tougher than mindless underlings...and tend to do more damage, offer a bigger challenge. Ultimately, the superheroe defeats between 2 and 5 of these, less if he's got to deal with a horde of underlings too...

I think the problem is that some are confusing what the concept of the conning system is... It's to determine the relative power of a villain to your power. If the villain is supposed to be relatively as strong as you, then wth are you thinking that you should be able to wipe the floor with a massive group of them?! Seriously... A few? Of course! A large group?! roflol!

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Regardless, it is way too extreme. The ONE thing in this game which was comic book like in this game was wading through even level minions--once I was in my thirties, of course.

Don't take that away! A "minion" shouldn't be the same problem for a 30th level characer--and certianly not for a 40th level character--as it is for a 1st.

By all means, tone down our ability to solo +4 bosses. But don't remove the very real sense that our powers are increasing.

Otherwise, I will feel as wimpy at 50th as I do at 1st. I just have more powers to feel wimpy with.


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Ok I disagree whole heartedly with what you people call heroic!

You don't want heroes you want gods. This aint that game.

And a L40 minion is NOT the same as a L1 minion. A L40 minion should compare similarly to a L40 hero the same way a L1 hero does to a L1 hero. Minion is simply their status in their organization. A L40 anything is still L40 tough, minions just don't have as many special powers, so they "should" be easier compared to an enhanced super hero. But thats doesn't mean you should be "wading through them". If you want to wade through stuff, you should be wading through -2 level minions.

And if you wade through something, you SHOULD NOT be getting great exp for that. Anything you can 1 shot or kill without risk should net you negligable exp at best.

Heroism is about overcoming odds, not stacking them in your favor them showing your *** when you "win". You people make heroism seem tritte and insignificant!

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I call BS.

Have you seen the new Outcasts? I'd be willing to bet that at an even level, they're more powerful than some of those level 40s. (barring status affects...and carnies, god I hate carnies)

What we're left with is Rikti, who have heavy melee and Rikti Rifles, and Mentalists with Mezzing and Psionic.
But oh, wait! Lost have those SAME POWERS.
That's right, Rikti are no more powerful than Lost. Their HPs are proportionately the same.

Carnie Minions...every bit as weak as any other minion in the game. Whoopie! they throw a chakra at you, sooo hard. :P

Nemesis, neat AOE attacks. Biggest reason why they're tough? BIG groups.

Yeah, I'd definitely say the new Outcasts trump ALL of these. (Ring of Fire, Fire Imps)

Minions are minions, they're about the same no matter what group they belong to. If there was a level 4 Rikti, yeah, I would probably have no more trouble beating it than I would a level 4 Hellion Slammer. (They hit HARD)

Etc.

Now how about you respond to a part of my post that promotes an actual discussion?

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Just because they are "minions" doesn't mean, by any stretch, that they aren't as strong as you are... Now, the term "even con minion" will be more in line with actually taking on soemone almost as strong as you...hence the "even con".

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You do know that Statesman has already said it should be 3 minions = 1 hero don't you?

BTW, I am still waiting for that video of you taking on those +6 mobs. You have zero credibility because you can't seem to tell the truth and refuse to research any of your answers. Until you learn that other people can fact check your stupid *** posts, you might want to refrain from making any posts.

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*yawns*

You have no credibility with me, either... I have nothing to prove to you. I'm not the only one who says it can be done. You can't, that's your problem. Deal with it. I solo in PI NOW, at level 35. You can't? Again, your problem, not mine.

Again, I've nothing to prove to you. And, until you get your name in red, you can kiss my *** about whether I can post or not...***...

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Etc.

Now how about you respond to a part of my post that promotes an actual discussion?

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That promotes the discussion specifically. I addressed a specific exception to the change, based on a notion of what constitutes power, the con system, what minions actually are, etc.

It's all there. Sorry you don't get it...

I honestly don't feel like playing CoH until update 2...

And I honestly don't think these balancing changes are coming anytime soon...

So why am I worrying? I guess it's because I... REALLY REALLY LIKE COH!

*Edited this post out.

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Again, I've nothing to prove to you. And, until you get your name in red, you can kiss my *** about whether I can post or not...***...

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It's all a discussion until someone decides to get personal, eh?

At least it wasn't directed at me.

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You'd have to be there for the whole thing... Valari's been a jerk ever since he stated that being 6 levels under the mobs you fight means you're useless and some of us disagreed with him...

But, I didn't realize the board didn't filter that word...I thought it did... self-censoring, coming up.

And, no..until you made a snide remark in your directly previous post, you were being perfectly great in the discussion...

Edit: On second thought, I won't edit it out...

Archon, read the post I was responding to and tell me who got personal first, please...

Ay, I'll let you two sort it out... Stand corrected... Still think you need to calm down, though!

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And, no..until you made a snide remark in your directly previous post, you were being perfectly great in the discussion...

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That's the problem with typing this crap out... I never meant to be snide, and If I got personal, I really apologize.

Edits coming up...


My stance on this subject does NOT change, though!

You don't solo in PI at level 35, you aren't above the game mechanics that prevent it.

But I digress. Everyone knows your full of it so I'll leave you to your discussion

That's because the groups in PI are huge.

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Everyone knows your full of it

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Hello. I'm the center of the universe. I don't agree with you, so "everyone" must know you're full of it.

This thread was relatively readable until you got here, Val. As for "credibility," who are you and why do you have any?

I see Icarus is here being a happy boy again.

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Everyone knows your full of it

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Hello. I'm the center of the universe. I don't agree with you, so "everyone" must know you're full of it.

This thread was relatively readable until you got here, Val. As for "credibility," who are you and why do you have any?

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You know, Icarus... I rarely agree with you, but I've always respected your right to have a different opinion.

Posts like this demonstrate exactly why, regardless of opinion on how we play, changes, etc., I'll continue to respect your right to speak them.

So how will a Hero = 3 Minions change for the higher levels go through without a massive outcry of, "EVERYONE WAS NERFED!" which we can all expect?

Frankly, It WILL be a "nerf". Sure, some think it's better for the game, the dev's obviously do. Maybe it is- but most of the playerbase is oblivious to these changes... All they're going to notice is that...
" I can't seem to solo more than 3 whites anymore! [Censored] is going on!?"

We are, after all, only a tiny percentage of the playerbase.

Aw crap. It's HURRICANE TIME for me.

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So how will a Hero = 3 Minions change for the higher levels go through without a massive outcry of, "EVERYONE WAS NERFED!" which we can all expect?

Frankly, It WILL be a "nerf". Sure, some think it's better for the game, the dev's obviously do. Maybe it is- but most of the playerbase is oblivious to these changes... All they're going to notice is that...
" I can't seem to solo more than 3 whites anymore! [Censored] is going on!?"

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I dunno...frankly, most of the people I do team with, and people in my SG, don't hold the Chicken Little view of changes... Most of them say something like "Oh? Is that what they changed? Okay...will have to change tactics, then." They then adapt and overcome..just like RECON! Sorry...Clint Eastwood movie flashback...

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We are, after all, only a tiny percentage of the playerbase.

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That we are, for sure. I have faith in the brunt of the playerbase being more adaptable than some here give them credit for, though... If they weren't? Then the forums wouldn't comprise "less than 1% of the player base" (according to States). lol

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Aw crap. It's HURRICANE TIME for me.

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Oh hell, man! Be careful... good luck and godspeed to you there. Hope you get through it fine.

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I like how "we're in the same boat," but sneakily my theories somehow ended up "even more" asinine than yours.

Anyway, I use relatively common sense and my own experience in the industry to make a comparatively well-educated guess that the developers, a group of professionals directing the fate of a multi-million dollar project which provides them and probably many others with income and therefore livelihood, are not making decisions based on the rants and raves of a FRACTION of 1% of their customers.

To get where they are, they would already have to be much smarter than that.

You on the other hand, well... lets just say you don't have to pass any tests to get an account and post on the forums.

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Lol, you make many claims, and then you assume that others
have no such experience ?

lol, you are nobody, kid.. Stop trying to make out like you matter
to the gaming industry.

My logic is sound, you were not around for the changes that were
made so you can have no informed opinion.

ergo, you have nothing to say about what you did not witness.

And, as far as I know, you didn't have to "pass any test" to post
on these forums either.. <wink>

Keep babbling and showing your ignorance.

Oh and keep up the professional use of curse words in every
other post, it really helps people to respect your teenaged trailer
park mentaility.

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Ay, I'll let you two sort it out... Stand corrected... Still think you need to calm down, though!

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And, no..until you made a snide remark in your directly previous post, you were being perfectly great in the discussion...

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That's the problem with typing this crap out... I never meant to be snide, and If I got personal, I really apologize.

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No problem... Indeed, inflection and intent are sometimes lost on the forums. That's their biggest drawback, I think.

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My stance on this subject does NOT change, though!

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Good! Can't have much of a discussion about these things if everyone agrees!

My favorite Troll!

Where ya been, Veg?!

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In the case of making the higher level game more fun, I want to make the difficulty of the later levels resemble early gameplay. At first, some players will decry "but I can't do what I used to! Ack! I can't solo two +4 bosses anymore?" True - but they'll have fun battling 3 white minions - which is something you can say at level 15, but not at level 35. Long term, the entire game will sparkle once this sort of balance is restored - because so much of the game design hangs upon it.

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States, that is one of your less Cryptic replies and I applaud you
for it.

But, as long as the XP curve is so exponentially out of whack
battling challenging minions will not offer any reward it will just
make levelling (reward) that much harder/slower..

At least make the XP bar a toggle so that we can hide it and not
have to witness it's lack of progress.

In order to make Scrappers solo the same 3 even con minions as Controllers, and Defenders, expect these following changes:
Invuln to get nerfed.
Regen to get nerfed.
DA to get fixed...and then nerfed.
SR gets fixed as well...and nerfed after finally becoming the best Scrapper Secondary.

Heh, you think we won't be able to solo Oranges without getting nerfed?

Keep your eye on Tankers too, with their new damage boost. They'll have prime defense, and decent offense, and will (barring a similar thing to purple patch...but then, groups would STILL ignore them as they do +5s, time/XP is inefficient) be able to tank/herd Reds with little difficulties.

-EDIT-
Mainly sarcasm here, but I don't expect the outcome to be too different.

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My favorite Troll!

Where ya been, Veg?!

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Gardvord hears fly buzzing around head.

Gardvord grabs fly and eats it.

Caliban laughs.

Some of the changes are steering scrappers to specifically target fewer minions and go after those orange, red, and purple lt's and bosses, though.

To me, anyway, it appears they are starting to devote some serious datamining to AT balancing. It can't, unfortunately,come all at once, so one AT or another is going to "suffer" until they can get close to what they intended for each one.

Sometimes the best intentions are a bit more difficult to put into practice...