On Patriot and Freedom badges...

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Where is the outrage at the Italian flag on The Family badge?

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Uh, I don't know squat about badges.

Is this a joke or did they do that?

Because that will seriously piss off a lot more people :-).

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Yeah, and every last one of them in need of help that even Billy Crystal couldn't provide...

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Where is the outrage at the Italian flag on The Family badge?

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Uh, I don't know squat about badges.

Is this a joke or did they do that?

Because that will seriously piss off a lot more people :-).

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Yeah, and every last one of them in need of help that even Billy Crystal couldn't provide...

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Huh..

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I am a Canadian, and proud to be so, just as I am sure many US citizens are proud of their country. I don't associate the US flag with any concept of "Freedom" particularly. I don't feel any emotion at all when I see a US flag. So for me associating "Freedom" as a concept and standing beside the US flag is meaningless.

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That's fine. As others have said, you don't have to get the badge if you don't want to. At least it's not a patriot badge anymore. Don't deny those of us who do associate our flag with freedom--or those who are playing characters who do--the chance to enjoy it, though.

You probably already knew that Americans have a special place in our hearts for our flag. Started way back when the British failed to knock it down during a battle in the Revolutionary War and it moved Francis Scott Key to compose our national anthem. Now there's a whole raft of laws to protect it, there was even movement for a Constitutional Amendment to outlaw flag-burning, and many Americans tend to associate the flag with the freedoms that we won for ourselves and that we've brought to or protected in various other countries over the course of our history. (Even disregarding the last 15 years.) I suppose we're just funny that way.

This is a game made by Americans. Written by American programmers (I assume--I don't know NCSoft's staff composition, maybe some Canadians & other nationalities worked on it too), played on American servers, set in an American city, based on the American genre of superherodom. You had to have known that before you even signed up for the game. Is it really that much of a shock that it might have some American values associated with it?

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Started way back when the British failed to knock it down during a battle in the Revolutionary War and it moved Francis Scott Key to compose our national anthem.

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Well it was the War of 1812, but some people consider that the second American Revolution.

I've got your six!

To the people wanting to cancel your account over one little thing... (OMG THEY R NOT SUPPORT AMERICA1 BEKASE THEY R NOT PLASTER FLAG AND PATRIOT ALL OVER PLACE1!!!)

Grow up, Patriotism is the love of your country, Not the diehard fanatical support of it.

I don't care if they added a russian flag to the city hall building and I had to chant "FOR THE MOTHERLAND!" For a badge. It's a freakin' game. I'm not gonna instantly become a Russian, same way I wouldn't instantly become a patriot by pledgeing to a flag.

Grow up patriots.

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As to why there is no Maple Leaf symbol, why not ask why there is no Star of David symbol? Why is there no Brazilian Constalation symbol? Why are you only asking about the Maple Leaf?

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Thank you for accidently making the point. This is an international game. No country should be held above any other. Period.

Thank you, please drive through.

Camdar

Good deal. Now this whole mess can go away. I can now get two badges!

Oh, and for the Canadian player who seemed to think that I (as an American) would somehow be

"on the edge of taking offense at the fact that I am supposed to stand beside a meaningless (to me) flag as a symbol of my character's concept of "Freedom"."

It wouldn't bother me one bit. You know what? I liked Alpha Flight. I thought they had cool costumes. There's a canadian guild on my server that has people from all over that have cool, canadian flag inspired costumes and you know what? They look very cool. It wouldn't bother me *one bit* to wear the leaf on my costume if a mission was about saving Canada. If there was an expansion centered in Nova Scotia, I'd be all over it and singing Oh Canada till the cows come home.

I'm a Canadian, and at times, a feircely protective and patriotic one. I love my country. But you know what? Idea Man, The Gobstopper, Lord Deucie, Drone 346, they are all Americans. Americans that I role play online. Know why? Because Paragon City is in America. Plain, and, simple. This is a Role Playing game, Role Playing, if you don't like to play the role then don't, but don't harsh on the people who do.

Statesman: neat. If you keep this up, you might force the board dwellers to abandon the knee-jerk reactions.

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Hmm. This makes sense because if it wasn't for the French, we'd all be speaking with English accents, and enjoying a big plate of Bangers & Mash with a frothy mug of warm beer. mmmm good

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Every era has its Great Enemy. Sometimes they swap around.

Without the English, and more specifically the Royal Navy, who kept England free of a French invading force, we might all be speaking French under the thumb of a French Empire.

:thumbs: :unionjack:

I'm a big Napoleonic Era / Royal Navy fanboy.

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"The price of Freedom is eternal vigilance."

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Hmm. This makes sense because if it wasn't for the French, we'd all be speaking with English accents, and enjoying a big plate of Bangers & Mash with a frothy mug of warm beer. mmmm good

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I actually wonder what would happen, after all very few of us are still under British rule, and they "won" their conflict with France... very curious... someone write a what if story...
Every era has its Great Enemy. Sometimes they swap around.

Without the English, and more specifically the Royal Navy, who kept England free of a French invading force, we might all be speaking French under the thumb of a French Empire.

:thumbs: :unionjack:

I'm a big Napoleonic Era / Royal Navy fanboy.

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"The price of Freedom is eternal vigilance."

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I know this is a bit off topic but personally I'm looking forward to a day when they add in content for mythical cities in other countries like Canada or UK, or Malaysia or even west coast USA. Who's to say...maybe in the future they will box and sell City of Heros:West Coast, or City of Heros:Fortress Europe, or City of Heros:Far East. At those times if a badge happens to place me next to a flag of those nationalities to me it would make perfect sense.

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Hmm. This makes sense because if it wasn't for the French, we'd all be speaking with English accents, and enjoying a big plate of Bangers & Mash with a frothy mug of warm beer. mmmm good

Edit Note:
No offense to the British. I love the English, just not the food

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I love the English, and love the food. But, then, I'm strange.

Edit: Well, I'm also only two generations removed from my English/Irish paternal grandmother...only about 5-6 generations removed from a Scottish immigrant, and descended from a ******* son of one of the Richards Rex on my mom's side. Oh, and my paternal grandfather's family is of Welsh ancestry.

I'm just a mutt. :P And and Anglo-phile.

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In the future, standing proudly beside the American flag grants a hero this badge.

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Well I for one will not be getting this badge. I'm an Australian... no way am I going to suck up to another countries flag just to get a badge.

Then again our Prime Minister sucks up to your President every day, so why should this be any different.

Fellas and ladies, why is this an issue?

Ya know, if I had an opinion and gave a rats behind, I'd be sceaming "Make it a rainbow flag!" Rainbow, symbolizing all colors, creed's, and denominations. Gee, I wonder what kind of a response I'd get...

"That's g@y"

Well guess what, you'd be right.

If you go to a pride rally, with all our streamers and rainbow flags, guess what, we're black, white, asain, hispanic, jewish, arabian, muslum, christian (self loathing, but still christian), brittish, canadian, texan, New Jersean...

But, i'm gonna digress into nothingness now. Because, I'd take the badge no matter what it was above the city hall flying high... it's only a game, and ya'll take it way to seroiusly.

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In the future, standing proudly beside the American flag grants a hero this badge.

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Well I for one will not be getting this badge. I'm an Australian... no way am I going to suck up to another countries flag just to get a badge.

Then again our Prime Minister sucks up to your President every day, so why should this be any different.

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Now THAT'S an opinion I can respect. I live 15 miles from The White House, and I can tell you, this town has more sucking (up) going on in it than a Reno bordello.

BTW, you've got 2 stars.

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Now THAT'S an opinion I can respect. I live 15 miles from The White House, and I can tell you, this town has more sucking (up) going on in it than a Reno bordello.

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Now THAT is a quote worthy of 5 stars.

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Well I for one will not be getting this badge. I'm an Australian... no way am I going to suck up to another countries flag just to get a badge.

Then again our Prime Minister sucks up to your President every day, so why should this be any different.

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Indeed. You're only paying an American company money to play a game run on American servers, in an American setting, based on an American concept. Your character is only fighting to protect and keep an American city safe. Why should your character take any pride in the place he's trying to protect? I'm sure he's only being forced into it.

Whatever. Whether or not you get the badge is nobody's choice but your own. If you want to skip it, then do so, with my blessing (as if you needed it). Heck, it's almost like it was made with people like you in mind, since given the placement of it, it's not even like you could get it by accident. (Unless...hmm, wonder if those people who TP-drop teammates into hordes of mobs could be retrained to TP-drop people onto badges they didn't want...? Nah, probably too much trouble.)

So what's the point in making a diatribe saying that you're not going to get it? That's like posting that you're unsubscribing, or (on USENET) that you're adding someone to your killfile--there's no point in it except to irritate other people, because it's only something that affects yourself.

Bah. Hopefully this time CuppaJo will step in before this thread degenerates like the last one did.

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Bah. Hopefully this time CuppaJo will step in before this thread degenerates like the last one did.

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I wouldn't be so sure. I'm home from work, and we all know how apt *I* am to shoot my mouth off and get things going.

Badges? Badges? We don' need no stinkin Badges.

I'm still waiting for a maple leaf somewhere in character creation ... I'm not worried about badges. Take it, don't take it. I think the change to Freedom instead of Patriot is great. But I'm Canadian. I'm all about compromise.

"Say it together now children .... com-pro-mise."

Sorry, had a flashback to grade school there.

Here is my thing, I play this game to GET AWAY from reality. Reality and in particular Politics, is not a fun place. Personally, I would have put the city in a mythical nation that I entirely made up. Avoid the whole issue. But, it's good the way it is and I understand why it's set where it is. Part of the draw for the crowds.
Sure it might bother me a tiny tiny bit to be confronted with a patriot badge for standing beside the american flag if I was in a REALLY bad mood, but I don't have to take it do I? Most likely I would just laugh and shake my head before moving on.
**Commence over-use of quotation marks**
Just because I have a "green card" to "work" in the "U.S.", it doesn't mean I have to "swear" anything to any "flags" or "Whatever". It's a game. Nothing in it is "Real". Geez. (he mutters instead of more substantial remarks)
Now I forgot what I was talking about ....
Oh yeah, that's right.
Good job on the renaming. For some, the word Patriot doesn't carry the same intention as it does for others. But I hate it when politics intrude upon my gaming at all. National pride is fine, but it should be tempered by reason and compassion. I've seen a number of fine ideas in this thread that could be used, some requiring a lot of work mind you. But really ... why? It's just a badge because you stood beside a flag right? I prefer more substantial things that you have to work for. But that's me.
Speaking of national pride, when do I get a single maple leaf eh?
**begins poking the lion with a short stick**

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In the future, standing proudly beside the American flag grants a hero this badge.

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Well I for one will not be getting this badge. I'm an Australian... no way am I going to suck up to another countries flag just to get a badge.

Then again our Prime Minister sucks up to your President every day, so why should this be any different.

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Well I for one will be getting this badge. I'm an Australian... My main character is a born, bred, raised, trained citizen of Paragon City.

I am quite happy for there to be pro-american content in this game as long as it is suited to the game. As long as the developers don't bring current world affairs or politics into this crafted fictional world, then I'll keep being a customer.

A SG name '9-11 remembers' invited one of my alts to join the other day and my character asked what is so important about -2 that we need remember it. Understandably they were angry, but in this game 9-11 did not happen - so why should my character be concerned about it?

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In the future, standing proudly beside the American flag grants a hero this badge.

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Well I for one will not be getting this badge. I'm an Australian... no way am I going to suck up to another countries flag just to get a badge.

Then again our Prime Minister sucks up to your President every day, so why should this be any different.

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LOL...

thanks for injecting some much need humour to my day

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LOL...

thanks for injecting some much need humour to my day

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to --> Miss_Impossible

Well then Miss Impossible, if you are an Australian as you so claim, why haven't I seen you online?

I've been on almost every night over the past 3 months, during our 7pm to 11pm prime time and I've never seen you. Then again your on Infinity, and I'm on Virtue. So that's probably why... I mean, who goes on Infinity anyway, ewwww.

to --> Subminima

Glad to be of service.

Now where's my straw... Looks like I've got some sucking up to do then.

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Just had this discussion on another board.

I don't know how to put this in a manner that won't make most Americans take offense at it, so believe me when I say I don't mean to be offensive in any way.

I am a Canadian, and proud to be so, just as I am sure many US citizens are proud of their country. I don't associate the US flag with any concept of "Freedom" particularly. I don't feel any emotion at all when I see a US flag. So for me associating "Freedom" as a concept and standing beside the US flag is meaningless. I am on the edge of taking offense at the fact that I am supposed to stand beside a meaningless (to me) flag as a symbol of my character's concept of "Freedom". Its kinda like taking your natural pride and emotional associations with your national flag and shoving them down my throat so to speak.

I don't hate the US, and I have (literally) never met an American I didn't like or find friendly. I have visited the US, and its ok, although I have no desire to live there. While I respect the US and its citizens, I don't see it as any greater a symbol of freedom or democracy than I do my own country or dozen's of other countries in the world. I know many Americans like to think of themselves that way, but much of the rest of the world doesn't share that view particularly.

I would be happier if they dropped the concept of a Patriot/Freedom badge entirely. Its not a big thing for me, and I understand what the devs are probably trying to express - but it rubs the wrong way on all non-US players (and there are a fair number of us I expect) to be forced to support an American-centric view of what symbolizes Freedom.

How would you feel if you had to stand beside the Canadian Flag?

oh and while we are at it, how come there is no Maple Leaf symbol in the chest details choices. There's a fleur-de-lys...

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I don't know how to put this in a manner that won't make most Canadians take offense at it, so believe me when I say I don't mean to be offensive in any way.

I don't hate Canada, and I have (literally) never met a Canadian I didn't like or find friendly. I have visited the Canada, and its ok, although I have no desire to live there.

This is pretty typically Canadian. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. Don't take the badge. If everyone would turn to the left, now the right, I'm sure they will notice the complete absence of a gun barrel pointed at their head.

Where is the outrage at the Italian flag on The Family badge??? I guess my sensabilities are not as "Selective" as some others who play this game.

As to why there is no Maple Leaf symbol, why not ask why there is no Star of David symbol? Why is there no Brazilian Constalation symbol? Why are you only asking about the Maple Leaf? Sorry, but the rest of the world doesn't necessarily share the same view of entitlement that many Canadians do. It's not big deal to me, since I don't rely on Canada for much of anything, but it rubs the wrong way on all non-Canadian players (and there are a fair number of us I expect) to be forced to support an Canadian-centric view of what symbols belong in the game.

How would you feel if you had to wear the American Flag on your chest? Well that's the whole point, you're not forced to.

That badge offers no more advantage to a player in the game than a Maple Leaf on a characters chest would. It's a matter of choice.

And why was there no cry of foul play about the United States flag on top of city hall from the very outset of play? Well we all know that one.

FOTM

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Well said Rod, I have tried so hard not to comment. But this is beyond silly. The city hall (much like the city hall in my town here) has an American flag. The town is full of Americans, helping Paragon City, RI, and the United States of America. Heroes in this town are GUESTS of the United States of America. If this game ever expands to include other nations cities (I hope it does...) then I would expect the buildings in that city to fly the appropriate flag, and perhaps give a badge appropriate to that country.
What badge would you give for the flag in a French city?
What badge for a Japanese city? English? Russian? Canada?
I am sure there is something unique to each.

On a side note... I lived in the UK for over 3 years. I prefer American bacon. The bacon there is similar to what we in the US would call Canadian Bacon. Otherwise I loved the food. Fried bread and pork 'n beans for breakfast anyone?
Loved the chips. wonderful stuff. And... bread pudding? Mmm... wonderful roasts... I honestly think there is wonderful food there. I think the UK gets a bit of a bad rap when it comes to food. (Of course... I even liked haggis when visiting Scotland... so... ymmv).

Satiata

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As to why there is no Maple Leaf symbol, why not ask why there is no Star of David symbol? Why is there no Brazilian Constalation symbol? Why are you only asking about the Maple Leaf?

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Thank you for accidently making the point. This is an international game. No country should be held above any other. Period.

Thank you, please drive through.

Camdar

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International? Maybe in players.. but not in setting. This is a game that takes place in America. How is that a difficult concept? There was no accidently made point. It is silly to expect that a city in the middle of RI will reflect an International flavor. There is a story that goes with the game. If this game were in the UK would you say it was unfair there were no USA flags on the UK buildings? No USA badge for standing next to the flag atop Parliment? Would anyone be offended if there was a French badge for standing next to the Eiffel tower? The arguements here are just plain silly. If you don't like your character (a make believe comic book type creation) being associated with the USA , then don't play a game that has as it's setting the United States of America.