On Patriot and Freedom badges...

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... the Freedom badge. No term better fits the ideals of America and all it stands for ....

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Very true. I like this change a lot.

Good job clearing up the confusion after seeing how maddening people get over a little badge.

Gang,
Just to emphasize: this was always the plan. It's just that one change came through before the other.

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If you want to add a Paragon City flag that is fine. But don't remove the Stars and Stripes for the Paragon City flag. Generally all city halls in the US display the flags for their City, their State and the US. US being on top, state below and city under that. I know this is just a game, but even then you want some sort of realism to allow yourself to become as immersed in the world you are playing in as you possibly could be.

Any game based even slightly on reality tries to get that detail for the extra feeling of the game being real.

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No it wouldn't be. I too was going to cancel my account too because I wasn't going to support a company that wouldn't support America when a little heat came there way. I personally like the freedom badge even better then I did the other being there. This is a touchy issue for me being in the U.S. army having friends that have lost their lives as well as others that have lost body parts. I won't get into politics or anything but if they change the flag or the badge then I'll go back to canceling my account as I am sure a lot of others will too.

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Uhhh... all the non-Americans that play this game need to stand beside a foreign flag to what???

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The game is set in the US. Paragon City is located in the US. Your character resides in the US. Your character is licensed under US law and, as such, works for and is rewarded by a US government agency. Don't like the fact that an US agency gives a character in the US fighting for a US city a badge for expressing loyalty to the US by standing next to the US flag? Tough.

Okay so my questions (partly because I'm doing a database of the badges):
[*]Will the Freedom badge be in the same location as the old Patriot badge and will it have the same text or new text (I'm hoping for new text to go with the new name since the text caused some amount of the uproar. I liked the ideas of making it refer to Statesman or some significance about the flag and the Rikti War).[*]Will the new Patriot badge be renamed and left in place with the current text (I still think the story is a bit weak but perhaps with a better name than patriot it would at least not seem so contrived).[*]If the new Patriot badge stays in place where is the marker for it? I couldn't find it at all and suspecit it got located behind/under one of the desks if not under the floor or in the wall.

I have other badge questions but have posed them in appropriate places and mostly directed at Positron.

One suggestion: I noticed the badge markers are 'clickable' so perhaps when you click on them they pop up a text window like the plaques with a bit more storyline than the badge text (I know this takes time and don't hold up Issue #2 for it but it'd be nice to see sometime). Also on a related note is there plans for the plaques in FC and City Hall in the origin offices? They're clickable (unlike the ones for the statues in City Hall) but nothing happens.

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If you want to add a Paragon City flag that is fine. But don't remove the Stars and Stripes for the Paragon City flag. Generally all city halls in the US display the flags for their City, their State and the US. US being on top, state below and city under that. I know this is just a game, but even then you want some sort of realism to allow yourself to become as immersed in the world you are playing in as you possibly could be.

Any game based even slightly on reality tries to get that detail for the extra feeling of the game being real.

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No it wouldn't be. I too was going to cancel my account too because I wasn't going to support a company that wouldn't support America when a little heat came there way. I personally like the freedom badge even better then I did the other being there. This is a touchy issue for me being in the U.S. army having friends that have lost their lives as well as others that have lost body parts. I won't get into politics or anything but if they change the flag or the badge then I'll go back to canceling my account as I am sure a lot of others will too.

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Okay, just making sure you read that right. I was responding to the guy that said just take out the US flag and put in the Paragon City flag. I said that adding the Paragon City flag would be okay, as long as it followed US standards and kept the US flag there and above the city and state flags. Since Paragon city is set in Rhode Island, they would follow suit with every other city and have the US Flag, State Flag, City flag flying in that order. Other than that, awesome change adding the freedom badge!

Well this seems like a much more reasonable arrangement.

With the patriot badge next to the flag it had this really eerie "did I just pledge allegiance?!" feel to it.

"Freedom" allows the american nationalistic heroes to get their fix, while only the extremely sensitive will object to the intangible open to interpretation concept of freedom being associated with a flag or country.

For those who do not understand, the badge was similar to someone going to court and swearing to tell the truth on the koran instead of the bible. For some it would be a non-issue, for others it would be completely suitable, some would feel a little wierded out but move on, and finally some would explode into goeey little bits at the out rage.

This was a lot like that, and I am glad for the fix/change.

Now one thing I need to comment on is the group of people who claimed it was a non-issue or that everyone else should leave it alone or get over it. When it was moved, it suddenly became very important to the future of the game and society as we know it.. Bad form gang show your beliefs up front, don't try to wield inertia.

An extra badge to collect? An extra badge that has different art than the others? Sounds great to me!

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Now one thing I need to comment on is the group of people who claimed it was a non-issue or that everyone else should leave it alone or get over it. When it was moved, it suddenly became very important to the future of the game and society as we know it.. Bad form gang show your beliefs up front, don't try to wield inertia.

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For some of it was a non-issue and when we had thought that the devs had caved too whining and crying of a small minority then the 'caving' became an issue. What the labels are about I no longer care. Now that Statesman states that he had already planned on this change I'm satisfied. So if you directed that statement my way please retract it

Lol - thats funny - I play on Freedom and never really put two and two together until I saw this post.

Anyway, I like the change. Still not sure I like Patriot as the term for the statue, but I can live with it. Thx.

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Gang,

Sorry about the confusion regarding the Patriot badge. Quite simply, I had wanted to shift the badge to something a little more universal – so that everyone, regardless of nationality, could feel like a “Patriot.”

What hasn’t been posted is that we had planned to replace it with the new one – the Freedom badge. No term better fits the ideals of America and all it stands for. In the future, standing proudly beside the American flag grants a hero this badge.

In games, some times some fixes get made quicker than others. In this case, we needed new art for the Freedom badge – and so it takes longer than shifting the current Patriot badge to the statue inside City Hall.

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States, I'm sorry: but apparently you didn't learn the lesson from the now locked thread: this is a bad idea. I realize it's your story and you want it fully realized, actualized in this game; but I think you are making a mistake putting anything in this game that in any way reflects real life politics. It's not your fault, of course, but that doesn't alter the ramifications.

Please reconsider and do not add either badge until you can be assured the majority of players are sufficiently mature enough to realize it's just a game, has no meaning other than entertainment and doesn't question their personal patriotism---i.e, that is, never add them, period.

thanks
Cal2

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We DID realize it was just a game, then people started complaining about the original badge and that’s when it started.

I do agree on one thing, in a GAME get rid of both, it is safer that way. Because after all this is the Devs livelihood and I would hate to see them suffer for this.

RL is a different matter.

Either way I get over things and will be fine with what Statesman wants to do.

I just hope it works out for you Devs, after all this is your bread and butter.

As long as it makes sense and a story anywhere near good, I’ll be fine.

ImagoX Said:
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OR, just make the flag PARAGON CITY'S FLAG, and be done with it. After all, regardless of the "nationailty" of our toons, we all are fighting within Paragon after all...

Can't wait to see all this new stuff guys!

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Are You Nuts!

I can just see it now CoH removes the American Flag out of the game?

What are you thinking?

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As long as it makes sense and a story anywhere near good, I’ll be fine.

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Right on, FusionForce! This is the only good point to be made from this mess! I can only hope this horridly retarded mess won't deter the devs and any future content to come. While I certainly like the idea of trying to make sure the badges fit all kinds of character origins & backgrounds, I'd hate to see the game suffer for it.

I can see the devs now: "Well, we thought about this neat new idea, but then we remembered... the Patriot Incident."

As others have stated, from what I've read about the "granted citizenship to all nations" version of the Patriot badge... um, can we get a less cheesy description for it? I mean, c'mon - even with impending doom, some nations are always going to be at each others' throats...

Maybe something like the "Being patriotic towards the human race - not merely one nation or people." That has a nice forward-thinking and positive light...

Shouldn't you have to stand next to the French flag to get the "freedom" badge? Or maybe we could just get Freedom Fries at City of Gyros.

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Shouldn't you have to stand next to the French flag to get the "freedom" badge? Or maybe we could just get Freedom Fries at City of Gyros.

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Hmm. This makes sense because if it wasn't for the French, we'd all be speaking with English accents, and enjoying a big plate of Bangers & Mash with a frothy mug of warm beer. mmmm good

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No offense to the British. I love the English, just not the food

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For some of it was a non-issue and when we had thought that the devs had caved too whining and crying of a small minority then the 'caving' became an issue. What the labels are about I no longer care. Now that Statesman states that he had already planned on this change I'm satisfied. So if you directed that statement my way please retract it

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Hmm, don't think any retraction is needed. By your admission your position was not influenced by nationalistic beliefs. Obviously your posts would also not be coloured in that way and would focus on the caving. So I don't know why you would think I was talking about you.

So how bout we let the non-issue become a non-issue hmm?

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No offense to the British. I love the English, just not the food


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None taken. I can rest assured knowing however that we have decent bacon. Something the US sadly lacks British food is uninspired at best, thankfully though you are never far from a decent Chinese, Indian, Itallian, French or Mexican restraunt!

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No offense to the British. I love the English, just not the food


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None taken. I can rest assured knowing however that we have decent bacon. Something the US sadly lacks British food is uninspired at best, thankfully though you are never far from a decent Chinese, Indian, Itallian, French or Mexican restraunt!

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I admit, it is hard to find good bacon (at least in my corner of the US). Still, thanks to the joys of immigration I have within easy striking distance Indian, Chinese, Thai, Vietnamese, Brazilian, Mexican, TexMex (there is a difference), German, Italian, and Greek.

We take our eating quite serious in these here parts.

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No offense to the British. I love the English, just not the food


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umm i'm confused, since when does British mean English, there are 3 other countries in Britain you know and us other countries tend to find being called english insulting sorta like calling some 1 from U.S.A canadian or vice versa.

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No offense to the British. I love the English, just not the food


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umm i'm confused, since when does British mean English, there are 3 other countries in Britain you know and us other countries tend to find being called english insulting sorta like calling some 1 from U.S.A canadian or vice versa.

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Ummm, are you serious? I thought I was just mentioning a ditty for fun, about English food. I think it's more akin to referring to a Californian as an American. Which shouldn't be a big deal at all.

I get all that plus Cajun, Irish, Russian, and probably some others I've not stumbled over yet

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No offense to the British. I love the English, just not the food


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umm i'm confused, since when does British mean English, there are 3 other countries in Britain you know and us other countries tend to find being called english insulting sorta like calling some 1 from U.S.A canadian or vice versa.

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Typical Welshie

NO OFFENSE!! Seriously, I have relatives near you and love the area, hope I can back there someday. It makes me laugh the total confusion many yanks have over the difference between England, Scotland, Wales, NI, Great Britain and the UK.

I think it's more like calling a Canadian an American. Sure technically it's part of North America, but it's a different country, just like Scotland or Wales. I wouldn't be offended if someone who didn't know better referred to the USA and Canada as "America", but it'd still bug me that people didn't know that there's a difference.

Oops i think that came out a bit more seriously than it was intended, well at least some people get an education out of it.

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No offense to the British. I love the English, just not the food


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umm i'm confused, since when does British mean English, there are 3 other countries in Britain you know and us other countries tend to find being called english insulting sorta like calling some 1 from U.S.A canadian or vice versa.

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Well, with a name like LLewellyn, I think we can guess where you're from.

And yes, there's more to Great Britain than England, but perhaps folks were distinguishing between Britain and Great Britain. I think a lot of people equate Britain with England, but Great Britain with the U.K.

Regardless, some of us that there's more to the U.K. than London.

Now! As for the food debate, I can't speak really to much from the U.K. I've had fish & chips there, but that was about it. Yorkshire pudding, I think, too. Those were all pretty tasty.

Don't know much about Welsh food, though. Or all that much about Wales in general, for that matter, aside from the fact that the Welsh REALLY did not get along well with the English for a veeeeery long time.



Now, as for this flag debate in general, I'd personally couldn't care less about the badge/"patriotism" issue (random note: ask random people who identify themselves as "patriots" to discuss specifics of the Constitution or if they've ever read the Federalist Papers, or if they recognize the significance of the Gettysburg Address).

What I'D like to see are more national symbol/flag options for costumes. Gimme a rising sun, a hammer and sickle, a harp, the union jack, the cross of St. Andrew, or your basic tri-color chest logo that you can design however you like (horizontal and vertical tricolors, please). Gimme costume patterns, chest details, etc.

I've already got a hero concept for a whole score of "import" heroes who've come to the States to help battle the Rikti.