I disagree.
I'm a mostly solo player, as there is a dearth of good people to group with.
I've played a fire/axe tanker to 30, and while I can still solo, it's incredibly slow. But I will persist.
I think that other options should be exercised to control the rampant power leveling, but I don't think that just slamming AoE blasters with a nerf bat will accomplish anything other than pissing a lot of people off.
I won't leave if they nerf my (not even created yet) fire/dev blaster. I'll just figure out some other way to enjoy the game.
There are lots and lots of ATs and builds out there. And, frankly, it's just so exhausting to hear people always complaining "Nerf blasters" or "nerf Necros" or "buff Rangers". You get the picture.
Play what you like to play and what suits your style. If you want to munchkin, you will always be in danger of a nerf.
There is no such thing as lasting game balance in an ever changing world. When a game reaches a state of balance, it is usually a signal of impending doom.
Well, as I previously said in this thread - and taking into consideration both quotes in your message, it sounds to me like AoEs will be addressed in some capacity.
All I ask is that whatever is done is equitable to Blasters of all level and doesn't only remedy "overpowered" Blaster between level 32-38 who are alpha striking clustered groups in Brickstown. Those tactics don't work for Blasters post level 40 and as a result, leveling slows down considerably after level 40.
Since we are quoting so much, how about this one from the Statesman himself in an interview with Robert Cox of WarCry.com:
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We appeal to people that the other games might not, because we want people to get in and have fun. It's got to be fun. Instead of making game mechanics require people to be online for a long time, we just want people to get in the game and have fun. Our game is simply easy to play.
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If changes are made to AoE's such that my time spent online is less fruitful - and it takes me hours and hours to level, I will likely move on.
Fortunately, it sounds like the Stateman has his thumb on the pulse of gamers to whom he refers in the quote (and "the silent majority" in the interview transcript) that are like me who want some entertainment, not hours of EXP grinding.
Thanks,
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If changes are made to AoE's such that my time spent online is less fruitful - and it takes me hours and hours to level, I will likely move on.
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For balance reasons there will be changes to AOE. I do however agree with you about how much grinding the upper levels would suck if you go from killing 20 +1 minions at a time to 3 even minions at a time.
One good thing about that change however would be that a mission would be more intersting and rewarding than running around a city zone looking for a group the right size. If you're doing missions you don't feel the 'grind' as much.
I'd like to see them calculate how many xps you would get if you complete all your story arcs (figure in hunting even cons for your kill tasks) and make that how many xps you will need for the next five levels. That way you can get to 50 without ever grinding, and then can try out the other ATs and builds you have been wanting to do. Personaly I play at least one of each AT, and enjoy every toon I have.
As more content gets added you will find that you can't see it all with one hero, so replay value will still be there as you level up again.
Is this thread a joke? I have a level 31 fire blaster and I cannot kill groups anywhere without getting stunned or held (and then killed). I assume this was posted before Issue 2?
If you nerf the AOE attacks so AIM and BUILD UP do not work with them, you will only make it so they miss a lot. Think about it. Most people put 5-6 damage SOs in their AOE. That means build up is only adding 25-30% more damage and Aim is only 15-20% extra. The key is the accuracy bonus.
Besides, I was in a 6 player respec team (2 blasters, 2 defenders, 1 controller, 1 tank) last night and without aim and build up our whole team would have been screwed (i.e. I would not be able to hit the +3 and +4 bosses). What are you trying to accomplish with your nerf calls anyways?
Go to Terra Volta and watch invul/regen scrappers take on groups of 10 +1 or +2 LT's ALONE and win with barely any damage. Then try that with your AOE blaster against the same size group but -1 or even level. I guarantee you will see the light after your trip to the hospital.
Bottomline, everyone has their strengths. Blasters are no longer the solo kings they were before the update. If you are calling for a nerf then go harass the scrappers in their forum and leave us alone.
-AZ
Yes, AOE damage is an issue. We're still looking at ways to solve this. So no changes are imminent.
Details?
States,
Why is it being viewed as an "issue" to be "solved?" If the Devs nerf AoE damage, what role do you see blasters having, and how are you going to prevent just about every AoE blaster subsequently rolling up a scrapper (or cancelling subscription altogether)?
Please don't nerf AoE damage.
a suggestion, from a AoE Blaster Player. I'd love to see enhancements to increase the area of effect of a power. (I'm sure many defenders would love this for Heals, too.) I'd also like a duration enhancement, for both Rain of Fire and for Aim.
What if... AoE had their area and/or duration trimmed slightly and these enhancements were added? So with 2 slots, you could get back to the previous power level, and could then go further if you want to customize. Then you either have the old version with 2 fewer Damage slots, or the damage of the old version but over a smaller area. Either view is a cutback in power, but it comes with a customization tradeoff that would keep me happy. Kinda like how Knockback now has a tradeoff with enhancements.
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Why is it being viewed as an "issue" to be "solved?" If the Devs nerf AoE damage, what role do you see blasters having, and how are you going to prevent just about every AoE blaster subsequently rolling up a scrapper (or cancelling subscription altogether)?
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Ok, I have an AoE blaster and that statement is laughable. If thye nerf AoE damage, guess what: We're STILL gonna be bigger damage than scrappers and every one else...
What this will do, is take away your ability to walk into all those different zones and take out whole groups in one or two hits.
I like my fire blaster, but even I'm blown away at the massive amount of damage he does with a good tanker....
WHat will blasters become? They'll become the best damage dealers to single targets just like they were.
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If the Devs nerf AoE damage, what role do you see blasters having
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No matter what, they will deal more damage than scrappers, faster. Meaning they are the definitive damage dealers in groups. Problem now is that 2 blasters can kill hordes of enemies in one shoot, and that is ether too much damage or too weak enemies.
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That means build up is only adding 25-30% more damage and Aim is only 15-20% extra.
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Know thy numbers.
Unless the powers have recently been changed since I last heard:
Aim: 50% damage 100% accuracy
Build-Up: 100% damage 50% accuracy
That would roughly be 21-36% and 43-72% effective damage boosts to a 6-slotted all damage SO attack depending on the levels of the SOs relative to your character.
So yes, Build-up and Aim still help considerably with damage. Even on a 6 damage SO+3 attack combining them both is adding over 64% damage to the attack. (150/233)
After reading this, I sense the meaning of the word "fix" is similar to what we did to our cat.
I'll have to agree that if they dial down the damage, they better dial down the agro. The only defense we really have is to take down the opponent(s).
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
I agree. Us AoE blasters are more group oriented than you think. I level faster with 2 or 3 people on my team. Usually its a Tank/scrapper and Controller/Defender. I like my 3 man team but I want to be able to solo effectively also. I may not be a power gamer due to having a job and spending time with my friends outside of the computer world. My fire/dev blaster can team well and solo ok after the issue 2 release. At this rate my blaster will become a solo debt mongering suicide bomb. Im not saying that we need the smoke grenades un-nerfed/fixed, but take into account that your making the scrapper the only viable solo char out there that will not have to deal with the grind. My team mates scrappers are all ready out XPing me with the same amount of time, especially since they can take out more lieutenants and Bosses in a single time period. I say that we need to re-evaluate the way people now play since issue 2.
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Yes, AOE damage is an issue. We're still looking at ways to solve this. So no changes are imminent.
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Well if my AoE cannot kill it in one volley I'm not using it. So you might as well take AoE out of the game entirely. A blaster using AoE that will not kill in 1 volley is just asking for debt. The lowest hit point AT drawing the aggro of every single mob, yeah sounds like a great idea.
Try taking out a group of Bosses (5-10 in the TV trials) with 2 AoE blasters.
I dont know what you guys are fighting, but no blaster waltzes up to big groups of even +3 reds anymore and just kills them all. Maybe before issue 2 you had a case but those days are *over* for all blasters, everywhere. Mobs are harder now. If it aint a minion, its even more insane. A single Vampyre orange boss handed me my [censored] the other day.
And single target damage? Why would I play what basically amounts to a ranged scrapper? Why play some fragile little blaster thats good for one target at a time, when I can have secondaries that make my defense as good as a tank, with equal, and in some cases superior single target dps? What makes a blaster better in that case? Just because your orange number is a little higher than what the scapper is doing? Even though the scrapper can stand toe-to-toe with +2 mobs while /em newspaper and you have to run like a little girl?
no thanks. You guys will see, but you keep thinking that AoE is "too powerful." It doesnt surprise me that a fire tank and single target dmg blaster think so.
Instead of "fixing" AoE's like you "fixed" fulcrum shift, why don't you just make it so mobs don't stack? That way area has more to do with the effect than stacking mobs.
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom
I suggest you all read this thread.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...part=1#1416200
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Yes, AOE damage is an issue. We're still looking at ways to solve this. So no changes are imminent.
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Statesman... I believe that after the Smoke Grenade fix, there no is no longer a need to nerf ae blasters. The most popular AE combo was probably Fire/Dev because we could AE hoards of enemies with no fear of getting hit... now, things are different. Since Issue 2, I find that I use my AE's about once per mission! I let my group do each of their roles because if I AE, I will die... its that simple.
Any nerf to AE at this stage in the game would be a huge mistake... The reason so many of us like being AE blasters is because in most other mmorpgs (like daoc), AE spells are pathetic: they cost too much, they deal too little dmg, and there is a dmg drop off as the enemys are further away from the center of the blast... so they never get used.
No more blaster nerfs please. It is NOT needed.
My ar/dev blaster hasn't been out of debt since Issue2 went live.
How about keeping the Area the same, but have a damage scaling depending on the number of enemies affected. For each AoE power, set an arbitrary threshold for 100% damage. When you hit a group bigger than the threshold, damage (or even accuracy) per mob is decreased. This would reflect densely packed mobs inadvertently shielding each other from taking full damage through sheer proximity.
Range Increase enhancements could be used to adjust the threshold and damage scaling for more customization options.
This would lessen farming of huge mobs. It'll make the difference between fighting 5, 10, 20+ enemies at once much greater. It could also mean Player Characters taking less AoE damage when in larger groups (imagine huge Raid level events).
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After reading this, I sense the meaning of the word "fix" is similar to what we did to our cat.
I'll have to agree that if they dial down the damage, they better dial down the agro. The only defense we really have is to take down the opponent(s).
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It's Friday afternoon so I'm going to remain oblivious to the obvious & stay in happy-land.
Since States said it was an "issue" and not a "problem", here's the view from my alternate reality:
1) Due to the complex interplay of powers, enhancements and other factors, with the fix to SG it has now been noted that */Dev blasters pull too much aggro. Issue could be addressed by adding a -ACC penalty on all mobs hit by an AoE attack. It's only logical: when you're in the process of getting burned, shot, electrocuted, etc... it's kinda hard to fight back. 
2) AoE's cones are not wide enough. I know that you know that it can be tricky to get everybody inside a Frost Breath or a Fire Breath cone. I'm sure you AR/* and other blasters types have the same issue. Issue could be addressed by making all cones a 90 degree (or larger) arc from the point of origin. And since you're in mucking with the code, might as well up the cone length too. 
3) Damage: MORE. Let's face it... in this day and age a good Alpha strike is even more important then it ever was before. On this issue there's some flexibility: issue could be either be addressed by just a flat % increase to all Blaster damage (note: bigger *is* better here) or issue could be addressed by reducing animation/ activation times on all Blaster powers.
4) Blast radius: BIGGER. No real hypothsis on the "why" for this one, but perhaps the Devs might just want to share some love with the Blaster community. And why not? All the other AT's and players do. 
Ok, perhaps that's not exactly the same set of AoE issues as the Dev's are currently looking at - but for the record I can categorically state that I will not whine if any of the above is implemented. I promise.
<sigh> I don't really want a "win now" button (really) and I know that this is a MMORPG wherein things change and tweaks are made all the time... but I'm in the process of learning to like issue #2 (and I really am starting to). Could we please have some time to adapt to those changes before other ...things... happen?
TIA & have a great weekend. Hope things are smoothing out and Devs/ Support/ etc ppl get to take this weekend off!
i have been a beta tester since day 1, i have 3 toons 40+ and my main is an AR/DEV blaster who has been at 50 for a lon gtime.
i have plenty of end game experience to have a good say here and here is my theory on this:
IF they nerf any AoE on blasters i would hope they add more HP to the blaster line i myself woudlk just role up a scrapper. but however that is just me.
just going off numbers my Full Auto right now doesnt bring down a groups HP more then a mere 19 point a tick i have to do a 4-5 combo and pray that i live to do so.... the SG nerf was a well deserved one. it works like its suppose to know in my opinion.
however if the blaster does lose anything on the AoE now u will probably see a whole generation server wide jump onto the scrapper bandwagon. for the sheer fact of damage/survivability.
the mobs also allready have an increase in HP as is, and from what i have been doing since update 2 went live was limit my AoE and time it when i got someoen to atleast aggro a pack.
not sure who or what lvl characters are doing the complaining or the defending here but end game there is a weak balance as is with blasters... and there should be. there life span is paper weight. however if u are to take that added with the fact all mobs have higher HP now and u nerf the allready low AoE... i just find it hard to see many blasters not jump.
i group with a fire/dev blaster for example hes an awesome player but for everyone complaining that there AoE is too great i would highly advise before there are complaints to atleast see what that does endgame.
take into consideration here that the devs are trying to keep people interested in the game, both newer and end game opponents to spark interest u want to try to have a level field of play for all AT's.... that is something that has been tweaked since day one and will continue to do so.
from the fire tanks to the dev blasters. however there needs to be strong consideration in this case just off my own personal experience thus far. nerfing AoE for blaster right now with the new update 2 live would be a critical mistake. just my 2 cents.
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After reading this, I sense the meaning of the word "fix" is similar to what we did to our cat.
I'll have to agree that if they dial down the damage, they better dial down the agro. The only defense we really have is to take down the opponent(s).
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Uhm yes and no. Yes, you're SUPPOSED to fear large groups agroing on you. As for defense, you SHOULD die if you try to take on a large mass of villains without help. Your help is your defense, noy your ability to mass wipe entire groups is seconds.
Better hope they don't "fix" it like they "fixed" fulcrum shift
Spines/ D A lvl 50 Scrap, stone/wm lvl 50 tank, Kat/reg lvl 50 Scrap
Grav/Kin lvl 50 Cont, Fire/Enegry lvl 50 Blast
Warshade lvl 50, PB lvl 39, nightwidow lvl 50, crab lvl 42
plant/thorns lvl 50 dom, ice/fire lvl 40 dom, grav/nrg lvl 41 dom