Syntax42
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Quote:Actually, the math does not work like that. To find the chance of X number of procs going off, you would have to use a binomial distribution. Fortunately, Excel and OpenOffice have this built-in. I have done the math on this to determine if it is better to slot procs or slot damage bonus.Originally Posted by Katerinae
The procs *can* be useful, particularly if your power covers a relatively large area of effect (large number of mobs). For example, on two of my controllers, I have freezing rain 5 slotted with a positron's blast set (including the dmg proc, and skipping the pure dmg IO) for the 6.25% hasten bonus, and 1 slotted with either the slow set or the defdebuff set dmg proc. So that's 2(procs)x20% chance to proc 72 dmg to all mobs in the area of effect, every 10.5 seconds. which amounts to 3 chances to proc before the freezing rain patch goes away. Which is 3(procs over time)x2(io procs)x20%(chance each) 3x2x.20 = 1.20 or a 120% chance of doing 71.75 damage. If we calculate that a la mid's style, that's an average of 86.1 dmg per mob in the area (assuming all mobs survive that long). Nothing to write home about, but it's "free" damage, since I'm casting FR primarily for the defense & resistance debuffs, and secondarily for the knock-up effect, the extra damage is just icing on a character which is otherwise a bit lacking in the dmg department.
In many cases, slotting the proc will result in more damage than slotting for damage bonus. These cases usually occur in low-damage powers like damage auras or when you are near the ED-cap. The poster above is correct in that you multiply the proc damage by the chance and add it to the total damage, then compare to a damage IO. This is the easiest way to figure out which is better. -
Get Soul Mastery from villain side instead. Power Boost lasts a bit longer and has half the recharge time.
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It takes a lot of trial and error to learn to make builds. Once you get good at it, though, you will be able to make one for any class. Instead of giving you a build, I will point you in the right direction.
The easiest way to soft cap S/L defense involves picking up a defense toggle from the epic pools. Basically, that means you need Mace Mastery, so start changing your alignment to villain so you can do the mission arc. One advantage to picking up Mace Mastery is Web Envelope. With that AoE immobilize on critters, you can drop ignite patches (AR's best damage-dealing power) without worrying about them running away.
As you make the build, start by going for your first or most important goal. I assume that is decent defense. After choosing powers, slot your defensive toggles. I usually use 3 Luck of the Gamblers for the most benefit per slot. This includes the global recharge bonus. You can buy that one with 2 Hero Merits and eventually start selling them for a profit to pay for the rest of your build.
After slotting your defensive toggles, identify which powers could give the most defense per slot expended. Keep in mind that you will only get to 45% on a few categories. I usually go for S/L and ranged defenses when using Mace Mastery. After soft-capping, the rest of the bonuses can go towards recharge.
Here are two example builds. Keep in mind that Stealth gives double defense bonus when out of combat and Mids' is currently showing the out of combat value. Also, don't use purples. I have them in the build in Mids' to see the potential recharge bonus, but there are cheaper alternatives with slightly less recharge bonus.
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And another build...
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Quote:You have obviously never made a Granite Tanker build. The only thing slow about them is their recharge times and damage when IO'ed properly. Good Granite Tankers do not rely on a Kinetics character because they know there won't always be one around.Originally Posted by BrandX
Well, te taunting, attacking, using AOEs, isn't that pretty normal to do for all Tankers who aren't WP?
Personally, I never considered Granite to be the tankiest (as the OP suggests) outside of SO (generic IO) builds.
Granite's slowness is annoying. And many Stone Armor Tankers reliance on having a KIN present is also annoying.
To the OP, while it pains me to say it, I might suggest Shields if you're looking for a strong aggro aura, and really the knockdown from Shield Charge does help teams.
I think the OP was referring to a power set's ability to survive incoming damage, not overall performance. The OP does not seem to like the drawbacks of Granite Armor and is looking for a nearly-as-survivable set without so many penalties.
Invulnerability is popular, but lacks any significant resistance to damage types other than S/L. It also lacks Defense Debuff Resistance (50% still leads to cascading defense failure), so it will be hurting against mobs that debuff then do non-physical damage. Similar to Granite Armor, psionic protection will have to come from IO sets.
Electric and Dark both have a significant amount of resistance to almost all damage types. Combining defense from IO sets with that resistance leads to a very tough Tanker. Dark has the better heal and gets a significant boost to defense from the stealth power, but Electric gives you more resistance against a more common damage type: energy. -
You don't need a separate build for farming and teaming.
Your defense is a bit over the soft cap for melee and AoE. I'm not sure if its because of it being an I18 build, but the toggles were all off when I loaded it into Mids'. Turn anything on that will normally be on by clicking the circles on the right side of the powers so the circle turns green instead of black.
Getting Shield Defense on a Tanker to the soft cap is very easy. First, slot Deflection and Battle Agility with about 55% enhancement bonus. This can be done by slotting 3 regular IOs or 3 set IOs and you can check the enhancement bonus by hovering your mouse over the power. Next, add Weave and Combat Jumping, with two regular IOs' worth of defense enhancements (~50%). Add a Steadfast Protection 3% defense unique and slot your build up or other to-hit buff with Gaussian's Synchronized Fire Control. Add Phalanx Fighting to the build and you're soft capped.
Do not enhance Phalanx Fighting's defense bonus. Grant Cover's defense bonus is also not worth enhancing. -
A Granite Tanker should be set up for surviving anything. It already includes the most resistance offered to any armor set, so the easiest way to increase survivability is to soft-cap your defenses and get as much psionic defense as you can in Granite. Movement speed bonuses help you stay where you should be in fights, so those are important too. As far as the Alpha slot goes, I can't offer advice. It all depends on what you feel you need the most when you play it. A lot of that will depend on your build. The Alpha boost is easy enough to change, so don't feel like you have to commit to one and only one.
Here is my basic Granite Tanker build template. It is far from complete, but it includes everything a Granite Tanker needs and can be adapted to any secondary set.
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I have never made a Invulnerability Scrapper build, but it is a challenge to hit the defense soft cap on an Invulnerability Tanker with only one mob in range of Invincibility. For a Scrapper, I would imagine it will take a lot more investment to pull off the same feat, if it is even possible.
With Willpower, the majority of your early mitigation can come from healing. When you get to 50 and slot IO sets, you can get enough defense to soft-cap with a small purple. That would probably be less expensive than Invulnerability.
Try looking for builds for both sets on these forums and possibly Brute forums. I'm no expert on either set, so you may find what you are looking for by looking at builds. -
Resistance sets in general are less popular because it is harder to achieve similar levels of mitigation as defensive or healing sets. Resistance sets rely heavily on the incoming damage type matching what you're strongest against, and even then, the 75% resistance cap is nowhere near as much mitigation as 45% defense. In fact, the resist-capped Scrapper would be taking 5 times as much damage as the soft-capped defense scrapper in most situations.
Electric Armor just doesn't have the buffs or utility powers to make it stand out. Shield Defense has a great damage buff and AoE attack. Fiery Aura has a pretty fast recharging heal and a great AoE attack. Super Reflexes is easy to soft-cap and includes a +recharge auto power, as well as 95% DDR. Regeneration and Willpower are easy to play at lower levels. That just leaves Electric and Dark as the sets that are kind of bleh without any unique buffs or powers that make them stand out as a set.
I'm not saying Electric Armor is bad. It just doesn't have anything amazing to make it stand out. If you want to use it, go for it. -
I have a Spines/Fire that I'm thinking about making my main. The insane AoE damage makes my Dark/Shield Scrapper feel like it isn't quite as useful. It probably helps that my Spines/Fire build includes 32.5% defense so I can soft cap with a small purple. All of that defense came at the expense of recharge bonuses, but I don't mind. My AoEs recharge fast enough as it is.
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This study does not cover what I was hoping it would. I could argue that they are stretching to making a claim based on the evidence. DOA (dead on arrival) rates do not reflect reliability of electronics over a period (years) of use. DOA's simply reflect quality issues in manufacturing that will always exist, no matter what type of electronic component you are examining.
In their first paragraph, they claim that solid state drives are less reliable than mechanical. In the first 30-90 days, this may be true due to new manufacturing processes for SSDs requiring optimization and quality improvements. However, over years of use, mechanical hard drives will not last longer than the average solid state drive due to wear from friction. -
Quote:That is very good to know. The way you describe it, it sounds like the debuff lasts 30s longer than the pseudo pet. Basically, one sleet debuffs for a total of 45 seconds if the AV stays in it.Originally Posted by Lord_Thanatos
Sleet can be easily double stacked for -60% resistance with some recharge slotting and hasten. Powers that use pseudo pets can stack with themselves.
Sleet itself lasts for 15 secs and and the debuff lasts for 30 seconds. With a base recharge of 60 seconds, it is very very easy to double stack Sleet, it would make more recharge to triple stack, but its possible.
Sleet can also take the achilles heel proc for more -res, something that Sonic/ can't do.
The build I plan on using for my Cold/Sonic Defender will have Sleet on a 20s recharge, which is easily enough to double-stack the -res debuff if it lasts 45s like you describe. Now, I'm looking at being able to debuff up to 190% of an AV's resistance between Sleet, Heat Loss, and Sonic attacks. On top of that, AVs won't be able to use their healing or god-mode powers like Unstoppable. I'm getting excited about my Defender's potential overpoweredness. I just need this semester to end so I can take the time to level it. -
The easiest way to increase survivability is to increase defense. You may want to consider aiming for 32.5% S/L defense so you can soft-cap with a small purple when you need to survive the tougher fights. Kinetic Combats are probably the easiest option for obtaining that goal, but they will cost you some recharge bonuses.
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We can have up to three builds now. Make one for Granite tanking and another for when you don't need ultimate survivability.
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Quote:You're putting words into my posts that weren't there. I never said Tankers can't do decent DPS. I said they "are among the lowest damage dealing classes in the game." That doesn't mean they are the lowest, nor does it mean they can't do damage. They simply start off at base damage values similar to Defenders and Corrupters.Originally Posted by Rylas
It's funny, you want to cherry pick tanker builds to say they don't deliver decent DPS, but then place defenders above them since some of them can buff/debuff.
I also did not place Defenders above Tankers. I said "I would put Defenders and Tankers together." Certain Tanker builds, especially those using Granite Armor will do far less damage than the average Defender. Defender builds using Kinetics, Sonic, or other high-value buffs and debuffs can potentially do more damage than the average Tanker. Tanker builds using Shield Defense and Super Strength have the most potential for doing sustained DPS that is greater than the average Defender. The two are on very similar levels in terms of DPS potential.
There are too many power set combinations and IO sets to apply a generalized statement that says one class will always do X damage. I was careful with the words I chose and directed my statements toward new players who may not have the Influence to make extreme builds that are capable of soloing AVs or pylons. Almost everyone who has earned the Influence to make extreme builds will know what they are capable of.
I meant to encourage players to go for their mitigation first if they are playing a Tanker. It doesn't matter if you can do amazing damage as a Tanker when you can't hold aggro or stay alive against a single pack of enemies. People won't want to play with you if you can't perform the role they expect you to fill. Build for surviving and holding aggro first, then go for DPS. The more influence you have to invest, the more likely you can have both.Quote:Originally Posted by Rylas
Please note, I'm not saying that tanks will do brute/scrapper levels of damage, but they will do GOOD damage. Sometimes even great. Discouraging to go for those isn't helpful. Encouraging to not ignore other important things is. -
Quote:I can agree with that. I worded my statement carefully, though. I know Tankers are not the lowest damage, but they are not a DPS machine with most of their power set combinations. I would put Defenders and Tankers together, considering some Defenders can debuff or buff themselves to do a lot of damage.Originally Posted by Sailboat
Well, Tankers do more damage than Defenders, some Controllers, and dead Blasters.
My point was that you should play your character to their strengths. Boosting their weakness is much more difficult and usually comes at the expense of their strength. You can try to make a build or buff a Tanker for damage, but doing the same thing to a Scrapper is FAR more effective if your goal is to do damage. Likewise, you can try to make a Blaster's defense high, but you will very likely sacrifice DPS. Certain builds and power set combinations can achieve moderately high amounts of both, but these usually come at a very steep price in Influence. -
Some missions have internal difficulty adjustments that cause them to ramp up or down in level. I couldn't say for sure if that is one of them, or if it is working correctly. Try going deeper into the mission to see if they drop down to the appropriate levels.
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Toshiba Satellite sounds like a laptop brand. As far as I know, nobody has made a laptop that allows you to swap graphics cards.
Increasing the performance sliders rarely causes an increase in temperatures for graphics cards. It usually only causes decreased framerates. The only exception I can think of is if the processor core has a separate section for anti-aliasing. -
Quote:As stated before, Sonic primary adds 60% resistance debuffing. Cold primary can also reach this, but requires a lot of global recharge bonuses to maintain the debuffs.Originally Posted by Shadey_NA
Assuming the even level AV, a sonic/sonic can comfortably add 21% (12% comming from the sonic blast set) -resist to the battle. Even without a -regen component that is a highly valuable addition to the challenge.
It would be important to note if anyone is discussing "Best TF Defender" that they include whatever the secondary blasts can do.
Personally, i think the primary combo for this would be a Cold/Sonic. The -resist for it would be at 16.5%. Add to that the -recharge numbers adding up, the insanity that is Benumb, the -defense, the added endo and even the added defense for your team and it sounds good to me...
Damn altitus. Gotta go.
Sonic Attack adds 20% resistance debuffs every time they hit. I calculated the optimal attack chain for debuffing, and discovered they can maintain an average of 90% total resistance debuffed.
Combining the Cold or Sonic and /Sonic would result in your team doing 2.5 times their otherwise un-debuffed damage. I think that is far more effective than bringing a Kinetics, especially when you consider how many AV fights involve a single target instead of the ten it takes to maximize Fulcrum Shift. -
Quote:Unstoppable has a very bad crash at the end. Depending on it to cap your resistances can kill you if you are still tanking something and aren't prepared for it to end. It is a playstyle choice if you do decide to take it, but many people will tell you to try to tank without depending on a power that makes you crash.Originally Posted by Dark_Tower
First, my currant build on my Invulnerability tanker, my main issue with this build is that Im capping my Smashing/Lethal resistance at 90% even without Unstoppable. S/L being the major source of damage it almost seems like over kill to even take Unstoppable. Anyone have any suggestions as to tweaking my build just a touch to minimize wasted resistance.
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Second topic, I have both a stone tanker, as built below and the Invulnerability tanker Im working on now and when placed side by side it almost seems the Inv, tanker out performs the stone and doesnt have the speed, recharge and damage de-buffs of granite, yet everyone still says granite tanks are the king of meat shields, wondering about your thoughts on this.
There is nothing you can do to "minimize wasted resistance". As mentioned above, Tankers should be able to tank without using their "godmode" power. That power is mostly there for extreme situations, or after making a mistake.
Stone Tankers are more durable than Invulnerability because they can have the same soft-capped defensed, but also have more resistance to more damage types. Invulnerability is almost purely smashing/lethal resistance. Some enemy groups do relatively little smashing/lethal damage, like Rikti. Those might be better to tank on a Stone Tanker than an Invulnerability Tanker.
As far as the penalties go for Granite Armor, most people who use the set don't mind. Tankers are among the lowest damage dealing classes in the game, so doing a little less isn't a big deal. Tankers are supposed to survive and keep enemies away from teammates. -
Quote:I don't have Mids' with me right now, so I'll have to do the calculations manually. You have it at 124s, so you have (450/124-1=) 263% total recharge (includes slots in Hasten). With the second Alpha boost, you would get 11% that bypasses ED and another 3.3% at least. That puts Hasten at 276% recharge, or (450/(1+276%)=) 119.68s even without the LOTG. Upgrading to the tier 4 boost will help even more.Originally Posted by Lord Mordeth
As for the Alpha boost, it's funny you mention perma-Hasten, as i was thinking about that last night, as with moving few slots around i could get the power charging in 124'ish seconds, 121 if i added an additional LotG +recharge into the build.
Of course, don't know if the Spiritual Alpha boost would be enough to make the power perma, though it would be close..
The best attack chain Dark Melee can do is Smite >> Midnight Grasp >> Smite >> Siphon Life. You should check the DM/SD help thread to see required recharge times to run that chain. Perma-Hasten does not guarantee that MG will recharge fast enough. -
Quote:If it takes you longer than 16 minutes (half a tray of purples) to solo a pylon, you aren't doing anywhere near a Scrapper's DPS potential. If it takes you 32 minutes, your build probably isn't optimized for single-target DPS. At 16 minutes, your DPS is about 168. For comparison, top-end DPS builds go over 200. If you have a 200-DPS (under 9:00) build, but use Shadow Meld, you are losing 12% of your DPS which cuts you down to 176 DPS, or a 13:15 time. I think losing that much DPS is worth gathering up the purples for.Originally Posted by UberGuy
Good luck getting a purple inspiration back as often as you can use Shadow Meld on an IO'd build.
If you're actually talking about general play and not Pylons, which was the OP's question, I find this comment/advice pretty laughable. (edit: If you're running an AoE-heavy build it can work out. If you're running something like DM or MA as your primary, it doesn't.)
But the OP's question was about soloing Pylons.
For general play on teams, I get plenty of purple inspirations or stuff to combine to make purples. As a /Fiery Aura Scrapper, I have 32.5% defense to all vectors. That is usually enough for most situations, but I can soft cap easily for tougher fights. -
Tough and Weave would add a lot to your survivability.
Dark Regeneration could be slotted better. There is a Tanker thread titled "Dark Armor Sucks" that discusses different slotting options.
Cloak of Darkness could also be slotted better.
As far as Alpha slotting goes, you can probably benefit from the recharge bonus. You don't have perma-Hasten and you are far from being able to run the highest attack chain. The healing bonus secondary effect from the recharge Alpha boost will also help you. -
Inspirations can be more useful than Shadow Meld. They last longer and take much less time to activate.
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Quote:Once you get into Granite Armor, Rooted is only used for the extra regeneration it provides. Granite comes with all the mez protection you should need. Also, Rooted recharges very fast, so toggling it off to move won't kill you.Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
I'll definitely second the suggestion for TP... it's almost mandatory for a stone tanker to have mobility in combat without toggling off the mez protection.
Definitely take Teleport on a Stone Tanker. It is useful because you can't jump at all.
The OP was looking at sets to take. I assumed he was only looking at the power short descriptions in Mids'.Quote:Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
So, if it was directed at me, please re-read my original post. If it wasn't, ignore me.
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Quote:The same would hold true for Regeneration, though.Originally Posted by Santorican
I'd say Willpower, dual blades pairs well with will power because of the knockdown in db that enables will power's regeneration to give it more time to regenerate.
In my opinion, Willpower is the better set, especially for players who may not want to invest billions of INF. Regeneration may pull slightly ahead with heavy investment, though. Stacking defense, resistance, and regeneration/healing on a character makes it very hard to kill. Willpower includes a fair amount of defense and resistance, and gives almost as much regeneration as the Regeneration powerset. With 100mil-1billion invested in IO sets, Willpower will feel a lot harder to kill than Regeneration.