Invulnerability Vs. Stone my builds


Dark_Tower

 

Posted

First, my currant build on my Invulnerability tanker, my main issue with this build is that I’m capping my Smashing/Lethal resistance at 90% even without Unstoppable. S/L being the major source of damage it almost seems like over kill to even take Unstoppable. Anyone have any suggestions as to tweaking my build just a touch to minimize wasted resistance.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.90
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(3), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(7), RctvArm-ResDam(13), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 1: Scorch -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx(11), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(13), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Rchg(7), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(15), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(15)
Level 4: Combustion -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(5), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(17), Sciroc-Dam%(46)
Level 6: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 8: Unyielding -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(9), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(17)
Level 10: Taunt -- Zinger-Taunt(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(34), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(36), Zinger-Dam%(37), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(40), Zinger-Acc/Rchg(43)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(31)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(42)
Level 16: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(48), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 18: Invincibility -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(19), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(19), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(23), Ksmt-ToHit+(37)
Level 20: Weave -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(A), RedFtn-Def(48), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(48), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 22: Breath of Fire -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(25), Posi-Dmg/Rng(25), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43)
Level 24: Resist Physical Damage -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(40), RctvArm-ResDam(45), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(27), DefBuff-I(27)
Level 28: Resist Energies -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(29), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(29), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 30: Fire Sword Circle -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(31), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(34)
Level 32: Unstoppable -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg(33), ImpArm-EndRdx/Rchg(33), ImpArm-ResDam(33), ImpArm-ResPsi(46)
Level 35: Incinerate -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx(36), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(36), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(46)
Level 38: Greater Fire Sword -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx(39), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(39), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Fire Sword -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx(42), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(45), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 44: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(21)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(21), EndMod-I(43)
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

  • 4.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
  • 4.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
  • 4.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
  • 4.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
  • 4.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
  • 4.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
  • 4.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
  • 4.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
  • 18.63% Defense(Smashing)
  • 18.63% Defense(Lethal)
  • 4.563% Defense(Fire)
  • 4.563% Defense(Cold)
  • 9.875% Defense(Energy)
  • 9.875% Defense(Negative)
  • 8% Defense(Psionic)
  • 10.81% Defense(Melee)
  • 7.375% Defense(Ranged)
  • 6.125% Defense(AoE)
  • 2.25% Max End
  • 36% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 4% Enhancement(Heal)
  • 23.75% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
  • 105.42 HP (5.625%) HitPoints
  • MezResist(Held) 2.75%
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 16.5%
  • MezResist(Terrorized) 4.95%
  • 5% (0.084 End/sec) Recovery
  • 62% (4.851 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 4.095% Resistance(Fire)
  • 4.095% Resistance(Cold)
  • 6.25% Resistance(Negative)
  • 3% Resistance(Psionic)
------------
Set Bonuses:
Steadfast Protection
(Temp Invulnerability)
  • 3% Defense(All)
Reactive Armor
(Temp Invulnerability)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
  • 1.25% Defense(Energy,Negative), 0.625% Defense(Ranged)
  • 1.25% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.625% Defense(Melee)
Smashing Haymaker
(Scorch)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
  • 21.08 HP (1.125%) HitPoints
  • 1.875% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.938% Defense(Melee)
Doctored Wounds
(Dull Pain)
  • MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%
  • 1.26% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
  • 4% Enhancement(Heal)
  • 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Scirocco's Dervish
(Combustion)
  • 10% (0.782 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 3.125% Resistance(Negative)
  • 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 3.125% Defense(AoE), 1.563% Defense(Fire), 1.563% Defense(Cold)
  • 3.125% Defense(Psionic)
Reactive Armor
(Unyielding)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
  • 1.25% Defense(Energy,Negative), 0.625% Defense(Ranged)
  • 1.25% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.625% Defense(Melee)
Perfect Zinger
(Taunt)
  • MezResist(Terrorized) 2.75%
  • 10% (0.782 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
  • 2.5% DamageBuff(All)
  • 3.125% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.563% Defense(Melee)
Luck of the Gambler
(Combat Jumping)
  • 10% (0.782 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Blessing of the Zephyr
(Super Jump)
  • 1.25% Defense(Ranged), 0.625% Defense(Energy), 0.625% Defense(Negative)
Reactive Armor
(Tough)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
  • 1.25% Defense(Energy,Negative), 0.625% Defense(Ranged)
Luck of the Gambler
(Invincibility)
  • 10% (0.782 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 21.08 HP (1.125%) HitPoints
  • 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
Red Fortune
(Weave)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
  • 1.26% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
  • 2% DamageBuff(All)
Positron's Blast
(Breath of Fire)
  • 2.5% (0.042 End/sec) Recovery
  • 1.575% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
  • 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 6.25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Reactive Armor
(Resist Physical Damage)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
  • 1.25% Defense(Energy,Negative), 0.625% Defense(Ranged)
  • 1.25% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.625% Defense(Melee)
Reactive Armor
(Resist Energies)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
  • 1.25% Defense(Energy,Negative), 0.625% Defense(Ranged)
  • 1.25% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.625% Defense(Melee)
Scirocco's Dervish
(Fire Sword Circle)
  • 10% (0.782 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 3.125% Resistance(Negative)
  • 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
Impervium Armor
(Unstoppable)
  • 2.5% (0.042 End/sec) Recovery
  • 1.875% Defense(Psionic)
  • 2.25% Max End
  • MezResist(Held) 2.75%
  • 3% Resistance(Psionic)
Smashing Haymaker
(Incinerate)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
  • 21.08 HP (1.125%) HitPoints
  • 1.875% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.938% Defense(Melee)
Smashing Haymaker
(Greater Fire Sword)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
  • 21.08 HP (1.125%) HitPoints
  • 1.875% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.938% Defense(Melee)
Smashing Haymaker
(Fire Sword)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
  • 21.08 HP (1.125%) HitPoints
  • 1.875% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.938% Defense(Melee)
Numina's Convalescence
(Health)
  • 12% (0.939 HP/sec) Regeneration



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Second topic, I have both a stone tanker, as built below and the Invulnerability tanker I’m working on now and when placed side by side it almost seems the Inv, tanker out performs the stone and doesn’t have the speed, recharge and damage de-buffs of granite, yet everyone still says granite tanks are the king of meat shields, wondering about your thoughts on this.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.90
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Dark Tower VII: Level 50 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Stone Armor
Secondary Power Set: Stone Melee
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Rock Armor -- GftotA-Run+(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(3), LkGmblr-Def(7), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(15), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(37)
Level 1: Stone Fist -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx(9), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(17), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 2: Stone Skin -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(3), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(9), RctvArm-ResDam(19), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(45)
Level 4: Stone Mallet -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx(5), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(5), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 6: Earth's Embrace -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(7), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(13), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 8: Rooted -- Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx(A), Mrcl-EndRdx/Rchg(11), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(13), Mrcl-Rcvry+(23), Mrcl-Heal(42)
Level 10: Taunt -- Zinger-Taunt(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(29), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(29), Zinger-Dam%(45), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(46), Zinger-Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 12: Recall Friend -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Teleport -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(15)
Level 16: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 18: Tough -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), ImpArm-ResDam(37)
Level 20: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(27)
Level 22: Mud Pots -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(34), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(37)
Level 24: Heavy Mallet -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx(25), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(25), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 26: Crystal Armor -- RedFtn-Def(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(40), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(43)
Level 28: Minerals -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(40), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42), RedFtn-Def(43)
Level 30: Fault -- RzDz-Acc/Rchg(A), RzDz-EndRdx/Stun(31), RzDz-Acc/EndRdx(31), RzDz-Stun/Rng(46), RzDz-Acc/Stun/Rchg(50)
Level 32: Granite Armor -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(33), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(33), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(33), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(34), Aegis-ResDam(34)
Level 35: Tremor -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(36), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(36), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(45), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 38: Seismic Smash -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), HO:Nucle(43)
Level 41: Hurl Boulder -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(48), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 44: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Physical Perfection -- EndMod-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(31)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(21), EndMod-I(21)
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
  • 6.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
  • 6.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
  • 6.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
  • 6.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
  • 6.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
  • 6.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
  • 6.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
  • 6.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
  • 18% Defense(Smashing)
  • 18% Defense(Lethal)
  • 9.563% Defense(Fire)
  • 9.563% Defense(Cold)
  • 7.375% Defense(Energy)
  • 7.375% Defense(Negative)
  • 3% Defense(Psionic)
  • 12.38% Defense(Melee)
  • 6.125% Defense(Ranged)
  • 11.44% Defense(AoE)
  • 25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
  • 2% Enhancement(Stun)
  • 25% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 9% Enhancement(Heal)
  • 4% FlySpeed
  • 196.78 HP (10.5%) HitPoints
  • 4% JumpHeight
  • 4% JumpSpeed
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 14.85%
  • MezResist(Sleep) 1.65%
  • MezResist(Stun) 1.65%
  • MezResist(Terrorized) 4.95%
  • 9% (0.15 End/sec) Recovery
  • 62% (4.851 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 4.725% Resistance(Fire)
  • 4.725% Resistance(Cold)
  • 3.125% Resistance(Negative)
  • 16.5% RunSpeed
------------
Set Bonuses:
Gift of the Ancients
(Rock Armor)
  • 7.5% RunSpeed
Luck of the Gambler
(Rock Armor)
  • 10% (0.782 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 21.08 HP (1.125%) HitPoints
  • 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Smashing Haymaker
(Stone Fist)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
  • 21.08 HP (1.125%) HitPoints
  • 1.875% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.938% Defense(Melee)
Reactive Armor
(Stone Skin)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 1.1%
  • 1.25% Defense(Energy,Negative), 0.625% Defense(Ranged)
  • 1.25% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.625% Defense(Melee)
Steadfast Protection
(Stone Skin)
  • 3% Defense(All)
Smashing Haymaker
(Stone Mallet)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
  • 21.08 HP (1.125%) HitPoints
  • 1.875% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.938% Defense(Melee)
Doctored Wounds
(Earth's Embrace)
  • MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%
  • 1.26% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
  • 4% Enhancement(Heal)
  • 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Miracle
(Rooted)
  • 2.5% (0.042 End/sec) Recovery
  • 35.14 HP (1.875%) HitPoints
  • 5% Enhancement(Heal)
  • 1.875% Defense(AoE), 0.938% Defense(Fire), 0.938% Defense(Cold)
Perfect Zinger
(Taunt)
  • MezResist(Terrorized) 2.75%
  • 10% (0.782 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
  • 2.5% DamageBuff(All)
  • 3.125% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.563% Defense(Melee)
Blessing of the Zephyr
(Teleport)
  • 1.25% Defense(Ranged), 0.625% Defense(Energy), 0.625% Defense(Negative)
Impervium Armor
(Tough)
  • 2.5% (0.042 End/sec) Recovery
Luck of the Gambler
(Weave)
  • 10% (0.782 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 7.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
Scirocco's Dervish
(Mud Pots)
  • 10% (0.782 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 3.125% Resistance(Negative)
  • 9% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 3.125% Defense(AoE), 1.563% Defense(Fire), 1.563% Defense(Cold)
Smashing Haymaker
(Heavy Mallet)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
  • 21.08 HP (1.125%) HitPoints
  • 1.875% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 0.938% Defense(Melee)
Red Fortune
(Crystal Armor)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
  • 1.26% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
  • 2% DamageBuff(All)
Red Fortune
(Minerals)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 2.2%
  • 1.26% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
  • 2% DamageBuff(All)
Razzle Dazzle
(Fault)
  • 2% (0.033 End/sec) Recovery
  • 28.11 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
  • 2% Enhancement(Stun)
  • 2.5% Defense(Melee), 1.25% Defense(Lethal), 1.25% Defense(Smashing)
Luck of the Gambler
(Granite Armor)
  • 10% (0.782 HP/sec) Regeneration
  • 21.08 HP (1.125%) HitPoints
Aegis
(Granite Armor)
  • 5% RunSpeed
  • 3.125% Defense(Fire,Cold), 1.563% Defense(AoE)
Multi Strike
(Tremor)
  • MezResist(Sleep) 1.65%
  • 0.945% Resistance(Fire,Cold)
  • MezResist(Stun) 1.65%
  • 1.875% Defense(AoE), 0.938% Defense(Fire), 0.938% Defense(Cold)
Kinetic Combat
(Seismic Smash)
  • MezResist(Immobilize) 2.75%
  • 28.11 HP (1.5%) HitPoints
  • 3.75% Defense(Smashing,Lethal), 1.875% Defense(Melee)
Thunderstrike
(Hurl Boulder)
  • 2% (0.033 End/sec) Recovery
  • 2.5% Defense(Energy,Negative), 1.25% Defense(Ranged)
  • 7% Enhancement(Accuracy)
  • 4% RunSpeed, 4% FlySpeed, 4% JumpSpeed, 4% JumpHeight
Numina's Convalescence
(Health)
  • 12% (0.939 HP/sec) Regeneration



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Dark Tower. SL50 Stone/Stone Tanker
Founder The Freedom Phalanx Reserve
An Infinity Top 25 Super Group
Founded January 4th 2006

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Tower View Post
First, my currant build on my Invulnerability tanker, my main issue with this build is that I’m capping my Smashing/Lethal resistance at 90% even without Unstoppable. S/L being the major source of damage it almost seems like over kill to even take Unstoppable. Anyone have any suggestions as to tweaking my build just a touch to minimize wasted resistance.

...

Second topic, I have both a stone tanker, as built below and the Invulnerability tanker I’m working on now and when placed side by side it almost seems the Inv, tanker out performs the stone and doesn’t have the speed, recharge and damage de-buffs of granite, yet everyone still says granite tanks are the king of meat shields, wondering about your thoughts on this.
Unstoppable has a very bad crash at the end. Depending on it to cap your resistances can kill you if you are still tanking something and aren't prepared for it to end. It is a playstyle choice if you do decide to take it, but many people will tell you to try to tank without depending on a power that makes you crash.

There is nothing you can do to "minimize wasted resistance". As mentioned above, Tankers should be able to tank without using their "godmode" power. That power is mostly there for extreme situations, or after making a mistake.


Stone Tankers are more durable than Invulnerability because they can have the same soft-capped defensed, but also have more resistance to more damage types. Invulnerability is almost purely smashing/lethal resistance. Some enemy groups do relatively little smashing/lethal damage, like Rikti. Those might be better to tank on a Stone Tanker than an Invulnerability Tanker.

As far as the penalties go for Granite Armor, most people who use the set don't mind. Tankers are among the lowest damage dealing classes in the game, so doing a little less isn't a big deal. Tankers are supposed to survive and keep enemies away from teammates.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syntax42 View Post
Tankers are among the lowest damage dealing classes in the game, so doing a little less isn't a big deal. Tankers are supposed to survive and keep enemies away from teammates.
Your tanks may not do damage.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetpack View Post
Your tanks may not do damage.
What a useless and pointless post...No one said tanks dont do damage, stop trying to troll.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syntax42 View Post
Tankers are among the lowest damage dealing classes in the game, so doing a little less isn't a big deal.
Well, Tankers do more damage than Defenders, some Controllers, and dead Blasters.


If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------

The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailboat View Post
Well, Tankers do more damage than Defenders, some Controllers, and dead Blasters.
I can agree with that. I worded my statement carefully, though. I know Tankers are not the lowest damage, but they are not a DPS machine with most of their power set combinations. I would put Defenders and Tankers together, considering some Defenders can debuff or buff themselves to do a lot of damage.

My point was that you should play your character to their strengths. Boosting their weakness is much more difficult and usually comes at the expense of their strength. You can try to make a build or buff a Tanker for damage, but doing the same thing to a Scrapper is FAR more effective if your goal is to do damage. Likewise, you can try to make a Blaster's defense high, but you will very likely sacrifice DPS. Certain builds and power set combinations can achieve moderately high amounts of both, but these usually come at a very steep price in Influence.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syntax42 View Post
I can agree with that. I worded my statement carefully, though. I know Tankers are not the lowest damage, but they are not a DPS machine with most of their power set combinations. I would put Defenders and Tankers together, considering some Defenders can debuff or buff themselves to do a lot of damage.

My point was that you should play your character to their strengths. Boosting their weakness is much more difficult and usually comes at the expense of their strength. You can try to make a build or buff a Tanker for damage, but doing the same thing to a Scrapper is FAR more effective if your goal is to do damage. Likewise, you can try to make a Blaster's defense high, but you will very likely sacrifice DPS. Certain builds and power set combinations can achieve moderately high amounts of both, but these usually come at a very steep price in Influence.
It's funny, you want to cherry pick tanker builds to say they don't deliver decent DPS, but then place defenders above them since some of them can buff/debuff.

Part of what you say is true: you can gimp one thing if you've planned poorly or don't understand the mechanics of your game. But I've made plenty of tanks on plenty of primary/secondary combos that increased their damage output without taking away from their survival. In many cases, I've increased both. One of my tanks even solo'd an AV. That's serious DPS to sustain. Also, I've seen plenty of soft-capped-to-ranged blasters that do just fine on damage output.

Please note, I'm not saying that tanks will do brute/scrapper levels of damage, but they will do GOOD damage. Sometimes even great. Discouraging to go for those isn't helpful. Encouraging to not ignore other important things is.


@Rylas

Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rylas View Post
It's funny, you want to cherry pick tanker builds to say they don't deliver decent DPS, but then place defenders above them since some of them can buff/debuff.
You're putting words into my posts that weren't there. I never said Tankers can't do decent DPS. I said they "are among the lowest damage dealing classes in the game." That doesn't mean they are the lowest, nor does it mean they can't do damage. They simply start off at base damage values similar to Defenders and Corrupters.

I also did not place Defenders above Tankers. I said "I would put Defenders and Tankers together." Certain Tanker builds, especially those using Granite Armor will do far less damage than the average Defender. Defender builds using Kinetics, Sonic, or other high-value buffs and debuffs can potentially do more damage than the average Tanker. Tanker builds using Shield Defense and Super Strength have the most potential for doing sustained DPS that is greater than the average Defender. The two are on very similar levels in terms of DPS potential.

There are too many power set combinations and IO sets to apply a generalized statement that says one class will always do X damage. I was careful with the words I chose and directed my statements toward new players who may not have the Influence to make extreme builds that are capable of soloing AVs or pylons. Almost everyone who has earned the Influence to make extreme builds will know what they are capable of.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rylas View Post
Please note, I'm not saying that tanks will do brute/scrapper levels of damage, but they will do GOOD damage. Sometimes even great. Discouraging to go for those isn't helpful. Encouraging to not ignore other important things is.
I meant to encourage players to go for their mitigation first if they are playing a Tanker. It doesn't matter if you can do amazing damage as a Tanker when you can't hold aggro or stay alive against a single pack of enemies. People won't want to play with you if you can't perform the role they expect you to fill. Build for surviving and holding aggro first, then go for DPS. The more influence you have to invest, the more likely you can have both.


 

Posted

Quote:
Stone Tankers are more durable than Invulnerability because they can have the same soft-capped defensed, but also have more resistance to more damage types.
Also to Stone's advantage, the Defense isn't dependent upon mob positioning. 45% Def to a stoner is 45% regardless of who is nearby. Most of the Invul defense numbers are based on having at least one mob in range of Invincibility.


Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deacon_NA View Post
Also to Stone's advantage, the Defense isn't dependent upon mob positioning. 45% Def to a stoner is 45% regardless of who is nearby. Most of the Invul defense numbers are based on having at least one mob in range of Invincibility.
Now this is true, but back to my main question, my Invul. build can anyone see anywhere that it can be further tweaked to maximize strength over weaknesses.


Dark Tower. SL50 Stone/Stone Tanker
Founder The Freedom Phalanx Reserve
An Infinity Top 25 Super Group
Founded January 4th 2006

 

Posted

Stones -mobility isnt as big an issue as some people claim. Its fairly easy to speed up a stoner on the cheap and without any great sacrifice. Theres a guide somewere on the forums to do it. Base run speed in the game is 14mph, and with both granite AND rooted on, my stoner moves at 12mph and with just granite at 25mph.


 

Posted

Quote:
I said "I would put Defenders and Tankers together."
First and foremost, my apologies. I misread you're post (my eye put one word in for another), and responded to that. I certainly don't mean to misrepresent you.

That being said-

Quote:
I never said Tankers can't do decent DPS.
But you did say:

Quote:
they are not a DPS machine
I would argue many set combos can be. And it's possible, in all of those situations, to fulfill the aggro magnet role at the same time. If a tanker isn't doing what he can to soak aggro, then it's a playstyle choice (rarely a build issue).

I agree with most all your other comments in the thread (especially staying away from god-mode powers with crashes). But when you say: "Boosting their weakness is much more difficult and usually comes at the expense of their strength," I think this ends up being a little misleading. It's not usually that difficult, and it doesn't have to cost them their survival. If inf cost is what you're hinging this on, all someone has to do is utilize guides on the market forums, and Hero Merits. Most bonuses that can help your damage output don't even cost that much (in inf or towards survival).

To the OP:

Quote:
Second topic, I have both a stone tanker, as built below and the Invulnerability tanker I’m working on now and when placed side by side it almost seems the Inv, tanker out performs the stone and doesn’t have the speed, recharge and damage de-buffs of granite, yet everyone still says granite tanks are the king of meat shields, wondering about your thoughts on this.
Yes, Granite Tanks are the "kings" of meat-shielding. But that's about all you'll do if all you want to do is run in Granite form. Aside from having a lot of recharge bonuses and Super Strength to put your tank back on track for doing normal damage, Granite won't offer much outside of taking hits for the team. That's a good role to fill, but its something to take into account. Also, your build is for /stone, so your damage will be crap.

If you're going to compare IO builds, you may consider one that allows you to run around outside of Granite with S/L/E/N and Psi Defense at the cap. It's not too difficult to do, and you always have Granite to fall on when times get tough. You'll be much more versatile this way.

Invul/ is a great set. It's easy to soft cap defense (to all by psi) when making an IO build and utilizing Invincibility. You won't have a -dmg to worry about, but at the same time, if anyone shreds your defense with debuffs or has high to-hit, you won't have a lot of resist to lean on outside of S/L. When times get tough, you have Unstoppable, but when that crashes, you're SOL if you didn't finish the job. Then you're useless to your team. It's best to learn playstyles for those situations that you may be exposed to Psi.

IO suggestions for Invul/: get your S/L/E/N/F/C defense to where you can soft-cap with 1 foe in range. Then add on +HP bonuses. They'll work as additional resistance. After that, add recharge. You should be pretty darn solid from there.

*When I said your /stone build would have crap damage, I meant while in Granite. In my example, /SS has Rage to help overcome the -dmg penalty. /Stone doesn't offer anything to help, hence my comment. /Stone is a fine set.


@Rylas

Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.