Well, taking Granite doesn't cost any influence. Can you estimate what your build cost?
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Man, I knew someone was going to bring that up... |
Originally Posted by Ironblade
Well, taking Granite doesn't cost any influence. Can you estimate what your build cost?
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Honestly, no idea. I stored up a bin full of Kin Combats for when they were selling for under 10M (actually, most under 5M) exactly for situations like this. I use 3 full sets at lvl 35, but you can mule a set in like Boxing or Brawl and use the cheaper KB one and all at lower levels to save a lot of inf. Then 2 sets of 3 Eradications for your PBAoE attacks, filled out w/3 Cleaving Blow (actually, you don't need the CB to cap E/N w/the Steadfast +def). Use Perfect Zinger in Taunt for the S/L def and you can do w/o one of the Kin Combats. Hell, just to get to 45%, you maybe able to do w/o altogether.
Those are prolly the most expensive things you'll *need*. I have 5 LotG +recharges too, but they're not needed for what I described. The Miracle & Numina's uniques are likely very helpful to pay for all the toggles too. Oh, and the Steadfast +def unique, but those can be found for cheaper at below lvl 30. For QoL, 5 GotA +run speeds too. Also a few sets of 3x Aegis for the +def & run speed.
But no purps, no PvPs, so really I don't consider this an uber expensive build by any means. Even at today's prices, you could prolly build it for around 500M (again, w/o the LotG and the various uniques), maybe less if you get creative. Not cheap, but hardly out of reach. My particular build is well north of 1B, prolly closer to 2B, but sacrifices very little offense or QoL to reach my goals (other than skipping on the epic AoE). You can sacrifice a bit of offense and still be ahead of where Granite will leave you.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
We can have up to three builds now. Make one for Granite tanking and another for when you don't need ultimate survivability.
On the european servers I struggle to remember the tankies name but he basically did not have granite. Content got done without it and it was before IOs. On a STF I told another mate to come out of granite and tank the AVs and he did and was surprised. Given what a team can contribute to the survivability of a tanker and what the tanker can dictate of a battlefield peoples cups should be half full.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Honestly, I think Crystals just gets a bad rap. Lots of ppl skip Tough/Weave because of Granite, but if you look at Stone w/o Granite as a set, and build on it like you would w/say Ice Armor, you have a damn viable set even w/o IOs (and Psi def to boot). I spend way more inf getting S/L (sometimes E/N too) softcapped on like my Fire, WP & Dark tanks, but it's way cheaper on Stone since you get a head start w/Rock & Crystals. Brimstone is... well, it helps. 
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
One of the few things that drives me nuts on my stone tank: Rooted's -spd penalty is greater the Granite Armor's -spd penalty. I'll sometimes run in Granite just because I can move faster. On occasion I will toggle on/off Rooted depending on what we're doing, like moving between pylons on a Ship Raid.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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These are cheap enough that it's worth it just for entertainment value. My stone tank has a bit over 60% run speed bonus so far. When I see a friend on a stone tank, I ask them to turn on Granite and Rooted and then literally run circles around them.|
Originally Posted by dave_p
For QoL, 5 GotA +run speeds too.
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They stop dead in their tracks and just sit there for a few seconds, apparently mulling it over. Then they ask, "How are you doing that?"
Mean, I know, but I picture them staring at their monitor with about the same expression they would have if monkeys started flying out of it.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
Why would I bother doing that when I can move faster and do more damage with a granite brute slotted for softcapped defence to all but psi and much higher resist numbers in granite, and softcapped def to S/L/psi out of it. As stated, the move penalty in granite is less than the one in rooted.
I feel no inclination to ever make another granite tank, having seen what my brute can do. I also see no point in making a non granite stoner, an ice tank is just better in most situations (although there are several niche situations where that's not true).
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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Because... we're in the tanker forums and talking about Stone tanks? And, you know, some of us like the better defensive numbers. Overkill on a set like Stone? Maybe, but sometimes it's good to be the absolute best at something. You were one of the few on these forums using the Fighting pool properly on Stone tanks way back in the day so I respect your decision to move on to brutes, but some of us still like our tanks.|
Originally Posted by Minotaur
Why would I bother doing that when I can move faster and do more damage with a granite brute...
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Question though, is there any reason not to cap E/N out of Granite on a brute? Can it be reasonably done w/brute numbers? Fully slotted Rock & Crystal w/ED capped Weave + Maneuvers gives you close to 24.6% S/L/E/N vs. 32.8% for tanks. I only used 2 sets of Eradications (among other things) to get to cap, but you should be able to slot a few more sets depending on your primary. And, well, if you can't, there's one good reason for preferring tanks to brutes. A brute might still do more damage in Granite than a tank out of Granite (how much fury does that take, anyway?), but you're still stuck w/the -rech. I'd think you'd wanna run your brute 95% out of Granite as well if you could. Hmm... I may have a new project on my hands...
As for the Granite slower than Rooted thing, yeah, it's bs, but I'm jogging along at around 19MPH in Rooted these days (used to be faster before I went for E/N cap), which isn't fast, but not horrible either. Plus I still have TP.
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| I also see no point in making a non granite stoner, an ice tank is just better in most situations (although there are several niche situations where that's not true). |
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
Following my own advice, I made a Fire/Stone brute and pumped up his out of Granite stats to see what I could come up with.
46.1% to S/L/E/N, 43.6% to Psi. Close to 30% res to S/L/F/C. 41.5% DDR and 46.66 HP/Sec w/EE & Rooted. Unfortunately, I couldn't fit in Taunt (but did sneak in fully slotted Fireball), but I can drop Brimstone if it became an issue, though that would dip my Psi def down to 41.7%. Has a gapless Incin > Scorch > Cremate > Scorch ST chain, which isn't the top FM chain, but still a very good one.
Yeah, I think I found my new alt. 6 months for my next free character slot though.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
The reason I didn't cap the other stuff out of granite is that I didn't have room for the other armors, the intention was to only be out of granite for psi stuff, and psi/S/L seemed like the stuff I needed to cap.
Code:
is what I did, with the recharge/heal alpha slot.
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It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
Man, and you're using the Glad armor too. Question, do you really need Pulverize? I skip it on my Mace toons and don't miss it at the higher levels. You're way over the S/L cap so don't need that set of Kin Combats either. I switched it out for 3-slotted Crystal, which gives you like an extra 14% DDR too, and swapped in a few Erad & Cleaving Blow sets in Shatter & Whirling Mace to hit E/N cap. Just a thought.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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Because I don't have a lot of DDR, I need to be well over the S/L cap for ITFs, so that they have to hit me more than twice to cascade fail.|
Originally Posted by dave_p
Man, and you're using the Glad armor too. Question, do you really need Pulverize? I skip it on my Mace toons and don't miss it at the higher levels. You're way over the S/L cap so don't need that set of Kin Combats either. I switched it out for 3-slotted Crystal, which gives you like an extra 14% DDR too, and swapped in a few Erad & Cleaving Blow sets in Shatter & Whirling Mace to hit E/N cap. Just a thought.
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If I'm not going to be out of granite very often at all, crystal didn't seem worth it (and provides no DDR when it's not on IIRC).
I tend to find I need every attack I can get with the -rech in granite, and certainly if I get slowed.
OK, I have too much time on my hands, I've A-merit purchased 3 of the glad armors.
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
Now my planned Earth Tank build doesn't get soft capped defenses outside of granite. But it's only 16 seconds short of perma Earth's Embrace when granite isn't running, and it regenerates 61.87 hit points per second with Earth's Embrace down, and 82 Hit Points per second when it's up.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1,90
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Erda: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Stone Armor
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Rock Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), DefBuff-I(9), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(9)
Level 1: Barrage -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(11), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(11), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 2: Earth's Embrace -- Dct'dW-Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal(31), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(31), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(31), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(34), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 4: Bone Smasher -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(21), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(21), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 6: Mud Pots -- TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(A), TmpRdns-Acc/Slow(15), TmpRdns-Acc/Dmg/Slow(43), TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx(43), TmpRdns-Dmg/Slow(43)
Level 8: Rooted -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(40), Numna-Heal/Rchg(42)
Level 10: Kick -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(25), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(25), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29)
Level 12: Stone Skin -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam(13), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(13), TtmC'tng-ResDam/Rchg(15)
Level 14: Teleport -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 16: Whirling Hands -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(46), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(46), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 18: Crystal Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(19), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(19)
Level 20: Taunt -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Tough -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 24: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), DefBuff-I(42), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(42)
Level 26: Minerals -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), DefBuff-I(27), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(27)
Level 28: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- S'dpty-Def(A), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(46), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(48)
Level 32: Granite Armor -- TtmC'tng-ResDam(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(33), TtmC'tng-ResDam/Rchg(33), LkGmblr-Rchg+(33), LkGmblr-Def(34), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(34)
Level 35: Energy Transfer -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(36), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(36), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx(37), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(37)
Level 38: Total Focus -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(39), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(39), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx(40), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(45), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(45), Numna-Heal(45), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(50), Numna-Heal/Rchg(50)
Level 47: Tactics -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Vengeance -- Heal-I(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(3), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(3), Numna-Heal/Rchg(5), RgnTis-Regen+(5)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(7), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(7)
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Set Bonus Totals:
- 9% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 9% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 9% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 9% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 9% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 9% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 9% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 9% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 3% Defense(Smashing)
- 3% Defense(Lethal)
- 3% Defense(Fire)
- 3% Defense(Cold)
- 3% Defense(Energy)
- 3% Defense(Negative)
- 3% Defense(Psionic)
- 3% Defense(Melee)
- 3% Defense(Ranged)
- 3% Defense(AoE)
- 0,9% Max End
- 66,25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 1,5% Enhancement(FlySpeed)
- 1,5% Enhancement(JumpSpeed)
- 10% Enhancement(Heal)
- 1,5% Enhancement(JumpHeight)
- 1,5% Enhancement(RunSpeed)
- 30% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 10% FlySpeed
- 407,61 HP (21,75%) HitPoints
- 10% JumpHeight
- 10% JumpSpeed
- MezResist(Immobilize) 13,2%
- MezResist(Sleep) 4,4%
- MezResist(Stun) 2,2%
- MezResist(Terrorized) 2,2%
- 1,5% (0,025 End/sec) Recovery
- 106% (8,293 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 1,26% Resistance(Fire)
- 1,26% Resistance(Cold)
- 1,26% Resistance(Toxic)
- 1,26% Resistance(Psionic)
- 10% RunSpeed
So my newly worked over Stone/Ice, post-I19, boasts softcapped S/L/E/N/Psi def (50/50/45/45/52 to be exact), 38% S/L resist, 42% Fire/Cold resist, 20% toxic, and regens 58.5 HP/s w/perma EE going. Yes, thanks to the free Fitness pool, I worked in all the Stone armors, even lolbrimstone! And thanks to Crystal, I'm also rocking a 52% DDR.
Over the weekend, I took my newly respecced Stone/Ice on an ITF, LGTF & a MSR w/o popping Granite once. Well, I did hit it once against both the AVs at the end of the LGTF when we just rushed the middle of the room. Turned out to be a mistake w/all the Psi flying around and I went back to my other armors instead. On the ITF, I had other Maneuvers running keeping my S/L def at 60+, but still, the cascading failure never happened as my def hardly ever dipped below 40%.
End issues? Yeah, there are some end issues running like 9 toggles w/o team support, but I took Cardiac boost to deal w/that, plus that'll get me some more resist numbers when I go Radial. On the plus side, Rooted gives me enough end drain protection that I can laugh at Sappers and the like (Famine!).
Seriously, I used to roll my eyes a bit at all Granite tankers in the past, but now, it's hardly even needed, even as an emergency power. I'll hang on to it for like the STF and likely the new Apex & Tin Mage TFs (haven't tanked those yet, but I'll likely need Granite for the Tox resists, esp against the hydra), but I'm pretty much saying good riddance to all the annoying Granite debuffs. Well, except the slow movement, which Rooted is even worse for.
Note: I don't post builds so please don't ask. It's not hard. Take all armors. Slot Kin Combats & Eradications. Lots of them. Yes, you need Tough, Weave and maybe Maneuvers. Give it a shot and you too can say goodbye to Granite!
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee