SuperOz

Having read Zwillinger's responses and the counter responses to them, I can appreciate both sides of the argument here. On Zwillinger's side, he's beholden as his job description mandates to evaluate a standing issue and determine if it's worth taking to a development meeting to make a case for it. Whatever form that takes, be it about graphics, costumes, whatever.

On the player's side (and I think this is crucial) you have a group of people (however much of a minority you could classify it) that are actively and often times vocally calling for an issue to be promoted beyond a discussion point. That vocalism was demonstrated not once, but twice over two very long threads that were extremely detailed, and very nuanced in what expectations were going to come of a Golden/Silver Age costume set.

Now imagine the reactions of those players who worked directly with Noble Savage when they see a costume set not only advocated for by (in their perception) an even smaller minority at the Player Summit, but one that arguably has been pushed for less than the ones they themselves put substantial effort into. I have personally played this game for nearly six years now and have seen actual threads for Post-Apocalyptic costume parts perhaps....a dozen times, at most. Golden and Silver Age costumes I've seen incredibly regularly come up in threads. That may be a subjective viewing and hardly empirical, but it's very difficult to argue measured data in one thread and then not do the same for the other.

I also appreciate that the Player Summit promises player interaction and has to deliver, or the bad PR that results would genuinely hurt the company. The point being made here from a lot of posters is that a similar amount of work from arguably a larger number of posters which resulted in a more defined and applicable costume set was passed over for a less defined and nebulous set that was created by even less people. It's not hard to see a perception that states that the argument for not having a Golden and Silver Age themed set being that of not enough players asking for it could be applied to the Post-Apocalyptic set, because even less people were present and asking for it, but the mandate of 'Create a Costume set' was in place at the Summit.

I realise it's a rock and a hard place situation, but I don't find the posters in this thread (myself included) are coming from a place of entitlement more than a place of wishing for equal representation.



S.

Plus, another Kryptonian is a viable and credible threat to challenge Superman in a movie. That way the outcome is put into some doubt for the viewer, and that's a good thing.


S.

I remember another thread with David where he was talking the overall art style that he personally preferred being expressed in modern superhero movies and how he liked the textured look of costumes from the original Spider-Man films onwards. You can see that influence in his art for the first SSA. Statesman's costume is shown to have that texturing.

And yes, it's visually interesting and you're not just looking at some spandex or cloth. However, some of the most iconic and visually recognised superhero costumes are from the Golden and Silver Ages. The Shadow. Doc Savage. The Spirit. Captain Marvel, even. Their design is compelling and even groundbreaking in capturing the visual essence of a character.

For good or bad, films like the Avengers and Batman are the modern reinterpretations of their classic origins and they're very popular. Even the big blue boyscout has gotten a modern makeover, whether we older fans like that fact or not. And I can understand that.

But I think it's a salient point to remember that City of Heroes is definitively rooted in Golden Age mythology and tradition to the point of capes, that seemingly ridiculous and anachronistic costume accessory, is treated as important and integral to a character's story should they pursue it. Capes even have a backstory connected to City Hall's flag, for goodness' sake.

It would be a very good thing for the Dev team to swallow the bitter pill and get such a set out there. This game has prided itself on being the 'cottage industry' game of fans first and players and developers second. Isn't it a little beyond time to act like it?



S.

Yowtch. And to think I really enjoyed EMH (Australia aired the full run of the second season out here).....Agents of S.M.A.S.H just sounds a bit daft.


S.

It's interesting the reactions and thoughts people are having in the aftermath of this event; with all deference to Forbin, I can't advocate any retribution as a means of punishment to this person for a couple of important reasons. The first being my very best friend in the world is mentally ill, and I've seen firsthand and come to understand how much an imagined reality is for someone suffering it.

I have to stress here that I'm not condoning or excusing what happened, but simply saying that if this is the case, then that's something for a professional to judge, not us.

Secondly, I'm not an eye for an eye person. My personal belief is that I am not qualified nor of a moral position to determine if someone should live or die based on their crimes. I'm old enough to understand that there is true evil in the world and it should be opposed, but I am not someone who should be allowed to make judgements on another individual.

What I have come to start to question in regards to movies like this and the 'action genre' is something I discussed with a good friend only a couple of hours ago, and that is our desensitised reactions to violence and what we take from it. Of course my friend perceptively said 'just like with the Christians and the lions,' and I took that very salient point on board.

We're not sitting in crowds baying for blood from real people, but an event like this blurs an already thin line between entertainment and reality. I think Mr. Nolan is a very intelligent and thoughtful filmmaker, but it may be that in drawing a portrait of a superhero in the real world, our acceptance of that being in the real world has become that much easier. This isn't a criticism as such, but for me at least it's something that I think I should consider when things are presented to me as entertainment.

I firmly fall into the Golden and Silver Ages of the heroes I prefer, because without that sense of moral purpose and responsibility, without that essential compassion and empathy for another human being, a hero can just as easily be a villain. It's why I embraced the Avengers so wholeheartedly. It's why the heroes I play in this game follow openly in the mold of heroes of decades past.

And if the best thing that comes out of this tragedy is that we're reminded of where those lines should be drawn, then I can't see that as a bad thing.



S.

That's true; my friend in Colorado said that they found a red wig and he was wearing makeup. They also said (they have a medical background and a relative in mental health) that it's possible this guy has had a schizophrenic breakdown. That's just an opinion, of course...I don't want to suggest or excuse his actions in any way.


S.

Well, I'm thankful to report that my one degree of seperation from this event hasn't turned out badly. I have a very good friend who lives an hour away from the Aurora cinema and has gone there a few times to see movies.

In this case luckily, my friend doesn't like the Nolan films and wasn't going to go, but her son and a friend won tickets for that very screening from the radio guy who was there when it went down. As fate would have it, their friend had a nighttime shift at work and was too tired to go, so they didn't.

Just that simple.

I was really worried when I found out the scope of the incident and had to call my friend to confirm that they and their loved ones were okay. I will go and watch this film, I think it'll be with luck a fitting end to the trilogy, but for right now...maybe the first week of release...I might stay away from it. It'll be hard for me to see that movie violence and not directly associate it to the real world violence, at least in the short term.


S.

I think it's probably wise just to let what people think about the movie to hold off for a little bit. It's going to be hard to not associate the opening of this movie with the shooting in Denver for a bit. I know my initial enthusiasm for this film has been blunted a lot as a result of this.


S.

Glad to hear you're safe. I second the thoughts that whatever agents of fate were in play, they gave you a headache.

But a stupid, stupid senseless shooting.


S.

My SG often jokes the best way to navigate the D is to take a pair of rubber boots and a mop.

But you can have decent RP in there as well (most folk do in the blueside bar, the redside one's a little small) and the Ski Chalet in winter is just a lot of fun to hang out and eat smores in.

And that's not a euphemism.

It's like anywhere else on Virtue, Ultimus. A lot of us are playing characters in what we choose to make as an evolving, dynamic world that we inhabit, and some....well....don't.

But by and large Virtueites are players first, characters second and don't take themselves too seriously. But they do also do things like the Unofficial Handbook to the Virtueverse, which is a fun site ala the Marvel Handbook.

Say hi to your fellow heroes (and villains, and vigilantes, and...nevermind) and enjoy the ride. You'll like it there.



S.

There are a couple of things in favor of this as a potential system.

1) All furniture pieces made as of Going Rogue are three-dimensional objects as opposed to two-dimensional decorations that you'd seen in older zones and maps. This means there is a large existing database of decorations, furniture, decorations and the like to draw upon. Three new templates for such a system exist in Manticore's mansion, the Halloween Haunted House, and pretty much all of Atlas Park.

2)These pre-existing resources means that instead of accounting for a conglomeration of multiple items in one location (such as stacking for stairs and even whole floors) database size goes down because well...it's all there. Stairs, ladders, the works. While this also means that the templates will dictate a certain pre-determined format, things like color, placement of items and so on are going to have a lot of room for customisation. It does mean a copy of the room/apartment/whatever would be generated for each user, but the amount of information in them would be far less than the amount of items in even an average size base. Additionally, making them available to the player means the actual data (say for argument's sake a 'small apartment') could be held client-side rather like files for costumes.

3)Implementation through the store becomes easy because of the mail system and is keyed to an account rather than a singular character, rather like how travel powers apply to all characters on the account instead of individual enhancements.

The question then becomes that of time and resources and available space. I'm personally okay with holding information for a personal house on my side of the fence because as data, it's not really that big. It's the server side that'd be the concern, ie how many clones of the 'house' could be stored.

I personally think it's a viable alternative seeing as all avenues regarding actual bases have been explored. They can't be fixed, they won't be fixed. We all know that as a bottom line now. It's how much commitment on both developer and player sides there'll be to exploring alternatives.



S.

I'd be all for a redesigned base system for a number of reasons, but the primary one is this: bases as coded and designed are a literal can of worms.

As the Devs have said a few times now, the coding for bases isn't documented. The person who did the coding no longer works for the studio, and therefore any change (and that means any in the most literal sense of the word, including new objects, pieces, functionality, placement, and so on) is risking breaking the system totally. The bug where base guns were opening fire on the people who owned the base is a very good example.

It cannot be fixed, it will not be fixed. That is the ultimate bottom line. It wouldn't matter if they had unlimited resources, the problem is they simply don't have the tools to do the job. Bases as we know them would have to be scrapped on the coding level in their entirety to make them work again.

The best alternative is to do just that; offer an alternative base or personal housing system that is well documented and featured. Positron has gone on record saying he would like this, but he acknowledges that bases are also a huge resource hog, more than just about anything else in the game in terms of stored information. So you have a double edged sword in how to deal with them. Adding a second base system would bloat a system already bloated by bases that much more, and it seems unlikely on that basis that they'd want to do that.

So yes, I'm favor of an alternate system if they can do it in a feasible and reasonable way.


S.

Hello everyone. First of all, apologies for any confusion over the date of this event, it is officially, finally, and totally tomorrow night, the 9th.

As per this initial post:

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=292133

This event will be taking place at 8PM EST. In the event that a RWZ instance is not open, the event will convene in RWZ2. The physical location for the initial RP briefing (to be played by myself in the role of Eureka Phoenix) will be in the briefing room of the Vanguard base. It is the last room on the left directly across from the firing range before you exit the base to enter the zone proper.

I hope for a good attendance and fun to be had by all.



S.

Such a storied career and genuine personality. An Oscar winner early on and then a staple of cinema and television. This leaves who....Mickey Rooney? The grand silver age of cinema legends grows thin.


S.

It's safe during the daytime. Mostly. /newt


S.

A cultural icon for America. The Andy Griffith Show, even though I was born long after it had left the air, was well known to me. Little Ronny Howard being on there, Gomer Pyle, Don Knotts...this was right up there with Leave it to Beaver.


More than understandable that people are feeling they've lost a family member today.



S.

....yet another reason to consider cancelling what subscriptions I have left, really. But I think people have seen the slow but inevitable death of the printed medium for a while.


S.

I took the World Security Council to be some sort of United Nations sort of thing (whether the actual world governments knew of its existence is never made clear) and they were taking unilateral action on a sovereign country's home soil. And said country expressly has it in their constitution that they won't use lethal force on their own citizens.

So Nick Fury did break a law, but it was disobeying orders. Now, he presumably answers to this Council, but he also feels confident enough to disobey them and even cut them off during the attack on New York. This suggests he has a lot of authority of his own. I saw it as the head of the military going 'I kind of know the situation here, and you lot are crossing lines of engagement you yourselves set up.'

Obviously he didn't get punished in the end because the Avengers won, but it's clear the World Council doesn't trust him as they had people in place to take this action to begin with. So maybe they're the ones who're treating the law at their own convenience....



S.