Memphis_Bill

OTOH - people are still going to craft them for the sake of memorization, for filling in SG bins and the like. I've got to be honest... concerns about the market are just barely above concerns about how this would affect the color red you used in your costume to me. Then again, if I just want plain old commons, and they're still cheap (which, for me, is the case if I'm at the market looking for them) - that's fine. If I want to pay more for a "plus," I pay more. My market concern was really limited more to the interface and clutter.

They'd be treated the same as any enhancement. Of course, not being tied to a type of power (melee, range, heal, debuff,) reuse is not that big of an issue - plus the chance to get them crafting any common, versus trying for another LOTG/proc/etc, should make them easier to "let go" if you need a slot. (Of course, purely commons would probably be let go first.)
While I used set bonuses to describe them, there's nothing that would keep them from just being like multi-aspect IOs minus the bonus. (Crafting a not-really-HO, basically.) Set bonuses, of course, get to ignore ED, plus they give bonuses that affect *everything,* not just the power they're in. (X% accuracy doesn't just affect the power you put them in, they affect everything. These would be affecting specifically the power they're in.) Basically what BBQ_Pork said.

Well, other than the "greater chance to craft" these.

This is true. Of course, they do also have crafting "skill" to work up, a chance to fail on getting the materials (as opposed to just being a random drop - where you can also get some of the materials) - while we have memorization, we don't have "gathering skill" or "crafting skill," and I don't see the need for it to be added, or the chance for failure to craft anything at all.

As you said - "crafting lite."

/this, though it tends not to be the one you see. Make sure you don't just click on the mission in the list, but pick "Select Task" at the bottom as well.

You assume. And you assume incorrectly.

There's not much of a way of proving it one way or the other, except via experience in other games. And everyone's experience is going to be different (and, honestly, unprovable.)

For instance - again, I'm going to point to Aion. In the options, there's a "Decline duel requests" checkbox you can pick. Mine's not set. Aion's population is roughly 3x higher than COH, being newly released. (400,000 copies at an early report. Now, cut out some dual boxes and peopel doing so for spamming/farming/etc, I think we can safely say 2x. In addition, the population is almost completely outdoors, so your chance of being seen and challenged is much higher than COH, where you've got solo to 8 person teams doing their own thing in instances.

Being a PvPvE game - where PVP is one of the selling points - you'd expect to have more duels and such breaking out, offered and the like. Yet, even without that, I have *yet* to get a duel request. This could chance when I start levelling up my fighter (likely to Gladiator,) as it's a more combat oriented AT than my Priest or mage, but my highest character *is* a combat class (Ranger,) both ranged and melee (when I remember to swap >.>.)

Going to COH, we've had 12 issues since the Arena launched. In that time, I've seen the occasional broadcast for "Anyone want to duel?" (perhaps 3x a year,) and can think of exactly one tell - which, when I said no, was the end of it.

Does this invalidate those who say people would bug them continually with /duel if it exists? No. There's another board regular - I think it's Zeikran - who talks about another MMO (SWG?) where they *did* get spammed with it at ridiculous amounts.

It's not just the existence of the option, but the community itself, both in awareness of the option and the reaction to using it. COH, being a mostly PVE game with a heavily PVE community and no "PVP dedicated" servers (meaning "by the development staff/NCSoft") plus a small PVP community... I don't think would have an issue, right offhand, past the occasional individual. (You also have to consider individual tolerance - some people wouldn't find someone bugging them to /duel for five minutes anything but funny, others would get greatly annoyed by getting just one.)

Of course, that doesn't take into account the aforementioned massive power differences between PVP and PVE - so I still think that, should such a command be introduced, it moves the involved people to a pre-made Arena match.

Heh. And then there are those like the brute who was yelling at my Defender, who insist PVP means "I don't care if you're a squishy, you're supposed to stand still and let me just hit you." Um, no. I'll hover over here, debuff you and attack. You figure out a way to get me.

I don't PVP a lot. Yet I've gotten two PVP recipes dropping. Heck, for the time I spend PVPing vs playing lvl 50 content, PVP recipes are dropping MORE frequently for me than purples are!

Also note purples cannot be gotten with merits, and if we're going with rare-rare stuff (like PVP IOs,) PVE wise, those are probably closer to what they should be compared to.
... buh? *looks at empty PVP zones* That would be "Zero," most times. I really wish I were exaggerating, but I've gotten in *one* PVP zone fight in the last three months that I haven't arranged with a friend. (I hop into Siren's to grab combat invis, typically, and if there's someone there, great.) I've seen other people there perhaps five percent of the time.

This, I wouldn't mind seeing. Either that or make Siren's Call bounty something obtainable in any PVP zone, and more merit-ish (and persistent.) Put it in for ranked Arena matches, as well.


Eh... not so fond of this. No reason to bring my Controllers or Doms, much less my controllery Ice blaster or defenders.

Usually when someone mentions a PVP task force, it's... a task force with some PVP. Only problem with that, really, is getting enough people (on both sides!) to make it worthwhile.

TBH? I see it going more like:
"Set flag!"
"no. Not interested."
"Set flag!"
"I said no."
"Set flag!"
/petition irritatingkid - harrassment. /ignore irritatingkid. Go on about your business.

I know - I think it's Zeikran - relates being pestered with /duel everywhere, I think it's in SWG. I can't say it would or wouldn't happen here (past the initial "hey, new feature, let's try it on the first person I see" bit.) That said, some would see the above exchange (through the /ignore) as "yeah, oh well," others would see it as an extreme irritant.

Eiko-chan also brings up a good point - I don't know that PVP ever will be really "fixed" in this game without a huge disconnect between what powers do in PVP vs PVE, and the very difference in power effects (no mez protection, only mez resist, for instance) might be an insurmountable obstacle for any /duel that doesn't just insta-port you to an arena.

In theory, sure.

In practice - again, talking about Aion, and I can at least mention the bit of open beta of CO - duels *didn't do that.* The Arena maps, barring the monkey cage, are generally far more expansive than the amount of area taken up by *any* Duel I've seen. Even duels here in the PVP zones, *designed* for PVP, don't end up taking that much room - people go to "the circles" (Broad Shoulders badge location,) where you've got the full zone ceiling, the entire width and breadth of the zone to play in.... and if the fight goes beyond the street on either side, or even much off the "platform" that sculpture is on, it's rare.

I've seen one take the entire zone *once,* and that was from me being stubborn and chasing a Brute with my Peacebringer... mostly to see if the animation from one of my blasts would catch him before he reached the base. Yes, it took most of the zone to do so. But I wouldn't call that "dueling through most of the zone."

Edit:

There's also the "Once you're out of sight, then what?" factor with an entire zone. Now, as I mentioned previously, I like hunting when it comes to PVP. Last winter event, I was in Bloody Bay, and ran across snowbeasts. I hadn't opened those presents, and started hunting through the zone. /Whoall? It was totally blank - we were both on hide. I have no idea if it was friend or foe, but I spent time trying to track the person down. Even with a trail I could follow - I never found them. They may have left, they may have ducked into a mission, I don't know.

Even Siren's "Bounty marker" is imperfect, as it lags both "in person" and on the map. I've totally passed by my bounty without realizing, trying to track down the marker.

Put a /duel in a zone like, oh, Nerva - or even Grandville - and let one person run? Good luck finding them.

See, here's the thing. This game *started* with no PVP. Arena came out in Issue 4, and has been largely abandoned since then (yes, there are events on occasion, but it's largely unused.)

There are a good number of people who like the game specifically because they can completely ignore PVP exists. There are those - like me - who like that the PVP *is* isolated to certain zones. When I want it, I can go there, when I don't, I don't have to acknowledge their existance at all.
Not quite. And for similar suggestions, they HAVE - and I've backed them up on that, too.

What was the similar suggestions? Being able to "turn off" PVP in a PVP zone so someone can badge, or sightsee, or just fight NPC mobs. The OP wants to bring PVP into PVE zones, basically, *whether the PVE-only players there want it or not.* The "similar suggestion" wants to do the exact mirror - remove PVP from the PVP zone (or "force PVP-free PVE onto a PVP zone.")

For other related thoughts -

I'm also playing Aion right now, which is billed as PVPVE. There, you can /duel - I haven't been spammed with requests (possibly because I'm a 22 Ranger, as opposed to, say, a Gladiator.) There are four ways to encounter PVP:

1. Go to the Abyss. This is the big PVPVE zone(s,) lvl 25+. You can go for PVE and find yourself surrounded by the other side, fight for fortresses and the like. It's the central PVP "theme" of the world.

2. Go to the arena. One's available (only one I know of so far) in the capital, Sanctum or Pandemonium. (And in Pandemonium, you *must* go in to talk to someone for a quest - so if someone's waiting, well, hope you can get around them and get lucky or fight them off.)

3. Rifts. These - since it's PvPvE, and I expect it (and thus get to "hunt" as opposed to deal with armies) are kind of fun. Random "rifts" that let people from one faction through to the other side will open up in some zones (not all - lowbie areas, for instance, won't get them) and forces from the other side may come through. Admittedly, my sum total on my 22 Ranger has been "Log in, start flying, notice black (Asmodean) wings and a red name, try to give chase, lose sight, start hunting," but as mentioned - I find that "hunt" fun.

4. /duel. As I mentioned, I haven't been spammed with requests - but when a fight breaks out, it's typically in the middle of an already crowded area, with people trying to get around to get to their contacts, the store, etc. Frankly, it's annoying as hell. Especially since, less than 30 seconds away, they can find a slightly less populated spot with plenty of room to move around. This has been true with *every single duel that's broken out* that I've seen. It hasn't been people waiting for a group to arrive to start a mission, where it'd make sense to me as "something to do to kill time." Or waiting for something to respawn. Or even to fight over an enemy or resource spawn point.

About the only way I can see supporting a /duel function in this game is to have it auto-transport the two duelists directly to the arena with pre-set duel settings (as well as with the timer, and an auto-reject option.) That, as I recall, DOES break a team - might be wrong on that - so that may need looking into. But just having fights break out in public? No, thanks. I'd rather not have to deal with a duel breaking out while I'm at the consignment house, a costume contest, etc.

Versus signature of:
It's not your forum, it's NCSoft's. You don't get to decree who can and can't answer you. You're *going* to get disagreement. Instead of saying "Don't say anything if you don't agree," how about "If you're going to disagree, do so in a way that will help improve the idea" and accepting said criticism.

That said, they've got thermal and storm. Cold dom to me falls right in between those two. And all appropriate sets are eventually to be proliferated to all appropriate ATs per prior dev statements.

Just to clarify, they're a very rare PVP drop from defeating other players in PVP, not (say) like Siren's Call bounty where for X much bounty you can get Y reward. You could get one off your first kill, or not see one for quite some time.

Positive comments, if you feel like you have to say something without adding it to a thread, can always be sent through the PM system. (I generally see this happen in reply to guides - 'thank you' notes and the like - though it has happened with other posts, for me, as well.)

I also find it amusing that people are using the OTHER two anonymous systems with this thread - the stars and the tags.

Of my three lvl 50 Kheldians, two are Peacebringers. My opinion doesn't change. I'll also point out for the heck of it that of the two, PBs *are* preferred over Warshades in some situations - dealing with "hard" targets and PVP, most often - specifically because their buffs and heals are completely self-contained as opposed to relying on enemies (living or dead.)

Just the phrasing reminded me of this site.

"She was trained by the KGB to be an assassin at the tender age of 6. He's a pastry chef whose hat holds the secrets of an ancient, forgotten god. Together, they fight crime!"

Eh, I suppose - I'm going to stop before I get into "ooh, try this, did you try this" and the like since I love the set and the pairing. I can get playstyle, though - I love control sets, *except* for illusion, which to me is to "controller" a set as "ocean liner" is to "formula 1 vehicle."

If you don't mind asking, oh my god why? My plant/thorn (personally) is an absolute blast to play - only character I've had that was soloing the Scrapyarder Miner Strikes with something like 100:1 death ratio (them to her) when they were even to plus levels to her. (Obviously avoiding scrapyard himself.)

Just theme? Playstyle? Really curious.

Wrong. They function quite *well.* And have before IOs. Without purples and hamis. You do not need a "eight or nine billion infamy" build. Do IOs help? Sure. For the same reason they help every OTHER AT - they stretch slots and add, in set bonuses, other capabilities.

Why do the guides mention IOs? Why does *every other* AT's set of guides, "give me a build" answers and the like mention them now? Were they also utterly crippled before IOs as you seem to want to paint khelds as? They're put in there now because they're a fact of life, and bring advantages standard SOs don't.

(That, btw, is also why I tend to ignore any guides these days - there's so much "look for these sets that give X much extra recharge/softcapping defense/etc" it's rather pointless to ask how something plays as it levels, or "hey, fighting through this at level 25/30/etc" - the answer seems to be "Get IOs and cap something." Unless you're asking about MMs from about 18-25, in which case, the answer's "Just suffer through the demolitionists, it gets better.")