This...would drive Min/Maxes absolutely crazy. The foaming at the mouth variety...
I love you.
A very interesting idea. It would certainly make common IOs more attractive, and it would give min-maxers another layer of complexity to obsess over.
I think such bonuses would have to be treated like set bonuses, and set at the lowest level of power. Limiting the number of possible bonuses per enhancement type is a good idea. I suggest 3. It's a nice, happy number.
I like this idea. It's certainly interesting.
I could go for the bonus as per the OP, or as a surprise of being a non-set dual IO. Example: 32% ACC becomes 20% Acc/20%EndRed. Although that might not be as popular.
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Actually, I like the idea of generic dual/triple/quad aspect IO's. They would use the same bonus percentages as the IO sets do for the multiple aspects, but there would be no IO set bonuses. It would be nice to be able to custom-craft these on order, i.e., like a generic triple-aspect accuracy/damage/recharge. The only caveat I see here is that they can only be slotted into powers that permit those multiple aspects to have bonuses for a specific power, so it is not exploited in any way.|
Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
I like this idea. It's certainly interesting.
I could go for the bonus as per the OP, or as a surprise of being a non-set dual IO. Example: 32% ACC becomes 20% Acc/20%EndRed. Although that might not be as popular. |
I also like some of the original ideas suggested here, although I'm not sure how workable it would be for the devs to implement.
On it's face, I like this idea. However I'm going to play Devil's Advocate on you Bill and let you come up with some answers to things that occured to me. (I tried to answer them myself, but can't really).
1) Market Consequences- what you're proposing instantly negates both the desire to buy/use regular IOs, and the incentive to market them if you're crafting a bunch. This kills the prices for IOs and spikes the demand for Salvage. While the market on Commons has been pretty weak lately, I can easily see this driving them upward to the point they're more expensive than rares.
2) Use and ReUse- would these be slottable then removable during respec? Because what you've made is another class of enhancers you can only remove 10 at a time if you want to save them or sell them. That seems to tighten up an existing bottleneck when it comes to needing more respecs and/or not having these enhancers drop out of circulation.
3) Crappy set bonuses- Right now, lower level or early generation sets tend to have really crappy bonuses but are still useful for frankenslotting. What your idea seems to do is marginalize those sets even further.
I'm not trying to kill your idea for the sake of killing it. I'm just not sure it can be implemented in a completely open fashion without doing damage to what we have. Let's see if we can solve those problems.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
As far as I am aware (I haven't yet played Aion) MMOs that have a chance for bonuses on a crafting, also have a chnace for an ill effect, upto an including outright failure that uses up your materials and gives you nothing.
I do like the 100% reliable crafting-lite we have here, rather than rolling the dice each and every time.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
Lets get even eviler the crafted bonus is random!
You crit a craft do you get more accuracy, more damage, range enhancement?
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OTOH - people are still going to craft them for the sake of memorization, for filling in SG bins and the like. I've got to be honest... concerns about the market are just barely above concerns about how this would affect the color red you used in your costume to me. Then again, if I just want plain old commons, and they're still cheap (which, for me, is the case if I'm at the market looking for them) - that's fine. If I want to pay more for a "plus," I pay more. My market concern was really limited more to the interface and clutter. |
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
On it's face, I like this idea. However I'm going to play Devil's Advocate on you Bill and let you come up with some answers to things that occured to me. (I tried to answer them myself, but can't really).
1) Market Consequences- what you're proposing instantly negates both the desire to buy/use regular IOs, and the incentive to market them if you're crafting a bunch. This kills the prices for IOs and spikes the demand for Salvage. While the market on Commons has been pretty weak lately, I can easily see this driving them upward to the point they're more expensive than rares. |
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| 2) Use and ReUse- would these be slottable then removable during respec? Because what you've made is another class of enhancers you can only remove 10 at a time if you want to save them or sell them. That seems to tighten up an existing bottleneck when it comes to needing more respecs and/or not having these enhancers drop out of circulation. |
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| 3) Crappy set bonuses- Right now, lower level or early generation sets tend to have really crappy bonuses but are still useful for frankenslotting. What your idea seems to do is marginalize those sets even further. |
Well, other than the "greater chance to craft" these.
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Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
As far as I am aware (I haven't yet played Aion) MMOs that have a chance for bonuses on a crafting, also have a chnace for an ill effect, upto an including outright failure that uses up your materials and gives you nothing.
I do like the 100% reliable crafting-lite we have here, rather than rolling the dice each and every time. |
As you said - "crafting lite."
My only thought to that Bill is that this Dev team seem very strict on risk/reward.
Want a TF challange to get more merits ? The only way the Devs have said they will implement that is if failing said challange nets you less.
I don't see 'critical success' in crafting ever being implemented without 'critical failure' of some sort.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Geez. Upon seeing that phrase "Critical Failure", I just had flashbacks to certain pen-n-paper games and of DM's who used tables that didn't always make sense.|
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
My only thought to that Bill is that this Dev team seem very strict on risk/reward.
Want a TF challange to get more merits ? The only way the Devs have said they will implement that is if failing said challange nets you less. I don't see 'critical success' in crafting ever being implemented without 'critical failure' of some sort. |
Players tend to hate critical failures. Heck, they aren't too keen on regular failures. Remember the "OMG ACC wus nerfed!" cries that used to pop up much more often? (Usually when someone hit L50 and switched to a new alt that wasn't slotted out with 1-2 SO's worth of Acc in every power. Or they popped a yellow in a mission and didn't get an automatic hit on thier snipe, or against a debuffing foe. But I digress.)
But if you want to do both a Critical Success and a Critical Failure in crafting tables, then perhaps I have an idea.
The Farnsworth Advanced Crafting Table. (just grabbing a name out of nowhere
)This special crafting table allows a skilled user to have a chance to craft a special enhancement when crafting Generic IO's.
When using this table, you will have a X% chance to craft a generic recipe into a special enhancement.
Unfortunately, the table is a bit finicky and will sometimes ruin a recipe and the salvage used into it.
X% chance to eat the recipe, salvage and $Inf used in the crafting.
Feel lucky?
Would you use it?
I think that the best way to go about this, would be instead of when creating say an Accuracy recipe, it gives you a +recharge or +damage, it would just give you a chance to be a stronger Accuracy bonus.
For example, if the recipe in question gives +35 accuracy:
Crafting an Accuracy recipe gives you 10% chance to get a high quality enhancement would give 40% accuracy, this would also give you a 10% chance to roll a poor quality enhancement which would drop the accuracy to 30% and you would have 80% chance of rolling just a normal run of the mill 35% accuracy enhancement.
Just my two cents
Net's Idea (recycled from.. 10+ years ago on a MuD)
Crafting Items has 2 flavors: Safe and Experimental
In safe crafting mode, you follow the forumla and get the known result. No chance for random effects, good or bad. Cost is normal, so is the amount of components.
In experimental mode, you have the base formula, but can add additional items in an attempt to bring about small boosts to the end result. What you add determines the chance and types of bonuses you can get. But it also adds a chance of "boom"; that is complete failure with the loss of everything used with nothing to show for it. There is a chance that nothing will happen as well and you get the normal result.
Extended to the CoX system:
The safe and experimental modes would exist but with a few additional restrictions.
When you successful create something in experimental mode, you get a temp power that reduces the chance of another by 25% for 1hr (to discourage factories). You can only experiment with recipes at or below your level. A "boom" result gives a 100% cost increase for 24 hours (shaken from the failure, you are far more cautious). The end result would be the basic IO with minor additions, not to exceed 33% of the base improvement for a single attribute, 25% for 2, and 20% for 3. The amount of reduction in the base stat would be 5% for 1 additional stat, 7.5% for 2 and 10% for 3. The amount of the boost is proportional to the type of salvage added and inversly proportional to the chance of success. That is, the better the boost requires better salvage, but has a less chance of success. Alchemist and Field Crafter give small increases to chance of success.
Example: A L30 Damage IO gives 34.8% boost. You decide to add some rare salvage to the mix and poof, you get a L30 Damage/Acc/Rech 32.2/8.7/8.7 IO.
Because of the unstable nature of these experimental IOs, neither WentWorths or the Black Market will deal with them. Player to Player transactions are the only way they can be traded. (yes this is intentional, again, to marginalize factories, and to minimize the sheer volume of additional IOs that would need to be accounted and sorted through).
-net
Tanker Tuesday #72 Oct 5 @Champion
"I am not sure if my portrayal of being insane is accurate, but damn its fun all the same."
NetMinder: I really like your idea. I like weighing the benefits versus a potential cost. And it also allows you to stick to the safe road if you want to, so that if you don't want to be affected by the change, you won't be.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
I agree, it's an interesting way of handling them. (Though I'm iffy about WW/BM not handling them. I'm not big on "soulbound" items elsewhere, and this sounds a step away from that. It would,a fter all, be part of the reward for crafting them. ) The risk (big percentage drop in chance) is a bit steep, IMHO as well - but the idea behind it works for me.
Another "I'll admit it's inspired from elsewhere" idea.
Inspiration:
In Aion, there's traditional crafting. As you make items (as opposed to making materials out of raw materials... yeah, multiple steps) there's a chance of making a better quality item. For instance, making chain boots - you have some percentage of a chance of making slightly better quality ("Noble") chain boots.
It's kind of a nice surprise when it happens.
Translation to COH:
Well, we don't have items to craft, fortunately. I like that we don't have "gear" to make, that our looks are purely look-dependant and don't affect our stats or powers.
That said, who doesn't like seeing a purple drop, or a PVP recipe, or one of the harder-to-get recipes? This brings that "ooh, cool!" of a nice drop to crafting.
Suggestion:
When crafting a standard (non-set) IO - such as Invention: Accuracy, let there be a small (5%?) chance to get a little "something extra" with a crafted IO.
For instance, I craft 25 Accuracy IOs (not unheard of when I'm stocking up for lowbies.) Two of them "proc" on me and give me an "Accuracy plus" IO.
What's the plus? It could be anything. Something similar to a (non-purple) set bonus - another 2% damage, maybe 1-2 mag mez protection, 1% defense of some sort, all small little "plusses." There could even be, as a bit of a circular bonus, a +1% chance to craft "plus IOs," which with regular bonus stacking rules means you *could* end up with an up to 10% chance.
Visually these could be distinguished by a different (gold?) colored metal "ring" around them instead of the standard silver, perhaps, or a "+" overlay in the corner.
The biggest minus that comes to my mind about these? Storage and the market. Sets have set bonuses, for instance, so you know no matter the level X set will always have Y bonuses. Having "plus" IOs that could have multiple bonus types (only one of any type attached) could really make the interface cluttered, both in the market and in storage bins.
The solution for that could just be to limit which bonus can show up on which IO - though that may take some of the "fun" out of it. If the "plus" is guaranteed (say, X% end reduction can show up on an Accuracy) the chance for it to show up would, I'd think, have to be lowered.
This, of course, also means the "greater chance for 'plus' IO crafting" would likely have to be moved off of IOs and into, say, a badge - have ten show up, you get another percent chance, up to fifty (which would bump your chance up 5% total,) in a badge similar to X times the victor.
Not vital, by any means, but that random chance might add a little more fun to churning out those standard IOs for everyone.