Memphis_Bill

I've played around in the zones on all the servers since COV came out. In all that time, I've seen them camped *maybe* once.

Firebase camped? Go to another one.

Meteor? Go to another. Use the zone's temp stealth. "Mistell" in broadcast about "Meteor X next" and see if they take the bait.

There are multiple exits from the web, and plenty of approaches to the bunkers. And someone has to *defeat* you in order to take your code. Fight back.
Utter BS. Yes, it's a PVP zone. You're warned when you come in you may be engaged by another player. If you don't want to "make yourself vulnerable," don't enter the zone. (Not like they're usually busy these days.) It's quite easy to finish the little zone mini-games.

There's a reason that, the times PVPers have wanted to 'duel" in the zones, they've picked a spot to meet. Namely that it's damn hard to find one other person if you're just randomly combing the zone - even hitting the "event points." (Easier in Siren's, of course, since you're given a rough targeting marker and there's only one "event" at a time.)

1. Why would VEATs get proliferation?
2. Neither did Khelds.
3. Did you mean customization?
4. In which case... Neither did Khelds.

The perception problem with stalkers is due to some of the players who refuse to actually *scrap.* Yes, you're squishy. You can still fight. Instead, though, we've had too many people for whome the playstyle is AS-Placate - run off and "scout the map" while everyone's fighting give the Stalker a non team friendly reputation.

Wouldn't argue with Hide being made inherent, though. It'd have to stay slottable, however, and even though this is being done with Fitness, I'm not sure the devs want to start drag-racing down that road. (Fitness. Then "Stalkers get hide, what do we get?" elsewhere - Taunt? Build up? etc.)

Friends? Often they're the same person. Amazingly, PVEers PVP. And PVPers PVE (for something other than "get to 50 to PVP.") These are not typically completely separate groups.

<insert same back and forth we've had since PVP zones were introduced.>

If there were anything in the PVP zones that was required (no, badges are not, no, shivans, nukes and heavies are not) for the PVE game, I might feel differently. But they are not. End result: If (generic) you don't want to PVP, you never have to come across it, ever. And that's perfectly fine. No reason to be able to set yourself to "don't touch!" And no reason to (and plenty of reasons against being able to) spread PVP into the PVE world.

Nope. We need at least two more in Screenshots and Fan Art, one here in a week, two out in the Champion server forum, one trying to fit it into RP, one complaint in Tech Issues and Bugs that inherent fitness isn't working right now, two in badges, and I swear there aren't any in Base Construction.

Get to it, people!

/this.

First run through. Spent 20 million on an A-merit.
Spent A-merit on 5 random rares.
Sold one random rare (listed at 5 inf) for 61 million.

... works for me.

Item 1 - VEATs already can get six. The current system is already extendable.
Item 2 - Which devs, precisely, are going to be so impacted by this that something vital loses focus, that this actually would be a reasonable objection? This isn't something that, say, would delay I19. It wouldn't preclude or delay content creation. Has nothing to do with power creation or adjustment. Wouldn't even get Jay's costume folks involved.

I'm hearing some pretty weak objections here. Recap of objections:

"I don't want it." (Really, all that's being said with a simple /unsigned.) So don't use it. Others don't like PVP, and the argument that that means the devs shouldn't spend time on it for that reason is awfully shallow. Some people only use one costume. Should we fire Jay and his team? Some people don't use the market. Should they not streamline and expand that as needed? Everyone has different interests. It's in Paragon Studios interest to stimulate as many of those interests as possible to at the very least maintain their playerbase. You're welcome to not use it - nobody will force you to make new costumes - but that's not reason to deny those that *would.*

"It removes an INF sink." Counterargument being that it makes said inf sink more likely to pull INF from the game economy by encouraging further use, as well as how much that INF sink is already neutered. (3 months = free token. Issue with costume changes, free token. Log off in Icon/Facemaker, discount token.)

"It removes a time sink." Well, so do base teleporters, wentworths teleporters, Ouroboros, mission teleporters, Recall Friend, Assemble the Team, travel powers, Ninja Run, the train stations added to Skyway and Founders, Pocket D... I remember trying to get around in Issue 3. Vast difference now.

"The devs have better things to do." Well, given it would make a segment of the population even happier without impacting others negatively, the background items (extra costume slots, again see VEATs, accessible via slash command) are already *there,* and it would only need to be made official via extending the UI (something that obviously they can do, given it was done with the halloween salvage introduction,) I don't see this as having much impact.


Pros:

I want it. Thus it being suggested, but it's a vague argument. That said, it indicates interest is there from a segment of the playerbase, and the result would be used. (Edit, the "I" being a generic I representing those that do - yes, in this case including myself.)

It would enhance an in-game INF sink through the creation of further costumes, much like adding the fifth costume slot did.

It would enhance character concepts. Concepts aren't just powers and names, but they're developed through costume as well. This would allow "shapechanging," adjustible armor, and everything from superman's phonebooth to werewolves and Ranma to a greater extent than now.

RP. More outfits for more occasions, without having to break an RP flow to run to a tailor.

Real-world income stimulation. As part of a pack or sold individually, costume slots will, on their own, attract part of the playerbase. (Throw one in retroactively to the Party Pack and I'd buy it just for that.)

Real numbers being displayed.
Inspiration combining.
Emotes.
Weapon customization.
Power customization.
Extra character slots.
Reordering characters on the login screen.
Putting icons for the stores on the map.
Adding a hospital to the Hollows.

You can make that argument for all of the above, as well as quite a number of other QOL improvements that have made their way into the game. Sorry, but you really have to come up with something better than that. It just doesn't hold water, as you're essentially arguing they should not do any QOL changes to the game, ever.

They give them away so frequently it's ridiculous. And as far as INF sinks go, the tailor's just not one of the big ones. I'd be willing to bet that more INF gets destroyed in a day, most times, in the market than gets "spent" in a month at Icon.

Alternately, if you want to see it as a money sink, it would be *more* effective to have more costume slots as people would *want to use them.* Having more slots available means those who are only "somewhat" interested in multiple costumes can have yet another reason to go to Icon just to try something out. And since they're unlocked with buying the booster pack - meaning no going out of the way in-game to find which tailor for which level and fighting whatever it is they want you to fight - it would be easier for people to use them right off the bat.

The only "necessary changes" in the game are bug fixes. And those are fixes in unnecessary software.

By the way, the only one who brought up a time sink is you. Zortel didn't. You've also brought up the INF sink, which has also been chipped away... no, wait, more like had explosives taken to it by the devs, as far as the tailor is concerned.

Also,

It has no effect on the "game element of the game," assuming by that you mean missions, character stats and the like. And, in fact, it would have a *positive* effect on the "game element of the game," if you take it to mean overall enjoyment for a segment of the population - just like new badges for another segment, new IO sets for another segment, etc.

If by " undesirable to the game element of the game" you mean "EG doesn't want it," well, when you make an MMO, you can rule it out. But just like there are badgers, RPers, PVPers, PVE-only players and more sub-communities in the COH world, just because *you* don't enjoy or think you'd make use of it doesn't mean it's invalid for everyone else. The game has a much wider appeal than that.

Now, impact on the game:
Basic mechanics - No impact. No powers are affected by this, and no AT is buffed or nerfed as a result. There's no balance change.

Character creation - Slightly changed, but not directly, as the person can have more ideas to keep developing a character and expressing it via costume change.

Market - No impact, other than perhaps moving a few more costume piece recipes, but even that would be minimal.

Badging - No impact.

Enhancement system - No impact.

PVE - Does not mechanically or numerically change PVE encounters.

PVP - Does not have an effect on PVP.

RP - Finally a section that it has impact on, as people can now expand their available costume selection, enhancing their RP experience. Impact - positive.

AE - No impact. NPCs can only have one costume each, after all.

Bases/SGs - Possible impact, as it's easier to 'give over' a slot for a SG uniform (for those that desire it) when you have more slots. Impact - Positive.

Server stability - No impact.

... so what's this "undesirable" effect it will have? Making RPers enjoy the game more?

Given that those who would use all these are likely to *keep* using that when new issues and/or boosters with costume items come out, it hardly removes an INF sink from the game, EG. (Not to mention any time they rearrange the costume editor even a tiny bit, it seems at least one costume per person "breaks," well...)

Also, as far as INF sinks?
- Tailor, discount tailor tokens for just standing there.
- Vet rewards - free changes. Many, many of them.
- Occasional free tailor sessions handed out with costume revamps (rare, but it happens.)

I don't think the devs are worried about this being an INF sink, quite frankly. Especially at current levels of income. Enhancement purchasing, crafting and the market seem to do well enough for that.

Edit: I'd also say, as a counterpoint, the devs would be bringing in money - yes, they already do, but it's one *more* incentive to purchase more booster packs. Bringing in real world money > in game INF sink.

Why not? "I want them" is perfectly legitimate, especially for something that has exactly zero impact on game mechanics. I want multiple outfits for different occasions, without having to run to the tailor (where I spend plenty of INF anyway.) I may have a character (and, in fact, I do have some) that change as they use their powers, get "into" a fight or whatnot. I may have a character that would have an "adaptable suit" that slowly adds layers as I meet other threats. If we could show degrees of damage, it would work for that, too.

By the way, VEATs can have six. One just doesn't display on the UI.

So, frankly, /signed.