I_trick

How are you getting fireball at level 35 isn't that an APP power? Wouldn't it need to be post level 41?

First off, wonderful guide you've got here local man. Probably the best put together guide I've seen on the site.

I just thought I'd reply to something small I noted in your post 11. Your build has for it's 49 power the group invisible power essentially as a placeholder for a LOTG recharge.

If you switch the epic power pool from Fire Mastery to Psionic Mastery you can actually use Indomitable Will as the power for that same purpose, and essentially have the same build but with added intermediate Mez protection.

Granted you do loose having non psi attack powers to call upon.

I'd slot mine better, but since I don't have slots to spare, I will not be.

I'm slotting mine for the -Def component in my final build, but right now (having just got it)
I have 2 endurance redux in it so I can use it without losing 1/4 of my endurance.

This power is better than whatever the storm variant is, as it knocks up rather than around. Meaning it doesn't ruin groups and keeps the damage/debufs pretty evenly spread out.

Also it's a good base -def debuff (I think it starts at 15%)

Remember claws is often positional in it's damage, this means you'll need to reposition a lot to get the best out of your cones. Movement can be a hugely counter productive to aura's.

So you might not be getting too much more damage out of the set. Although you might just change up some of your AoE options to get rid of shockwave, but then you're loosing the mitigation of group knockback.

I suspect too, you'll find you have more freedom in slotting things with SR than builing an Elec. (Could be wrong on that front, but that's my intuition speaking).

Thank you, I had not noted the level slider! (Oh goodness that makes life easier, I thought I might have to start grinding some AE to get KC recipes... ugh)

I actually went to Trashcan last night and didn't see ANY Kinetic Combat recipe's? Have they removed them completely, or am I looking in the wrong spot? The only thing I saw was the Mako set?

Yes, it gives as much defense as weave, and gives you some resistance against defence debuffs.

I wouldn't skip it.

I'm curious what percentage of corruptors take Scorpion APP just for the def shield?

I'm debating APP choice for an Ice/cold. Certainly I recognize scoprion shield puts you leagues ahead.

But some of the other sets have some really good powers that I can assume would be very handy too. Like the Soul Mastery set has that amazing little power boost ability to really add salt into the wounds of all my debuffs.

And of course Leviathan has hibernate which is the closest thematic choice to the ice/cold build.

SO. Aside from the general curiousity of what people are picking.

Can you use the multiple builds to have Multiple APP sets on the villain side? I know you have to go through those quests though, which makes the villain APP so much more restrictive. GRRR.

Anyway I hope you can.

Hey folks,

I'm trying to get a gist of which of the two options are thought more beneficial for the a cold dominatation corruptor.

Do you take the Power APP

or the Ghost Widow PPP

to get Power Boost or Power Build UP

The pros/cons:

Power Boost lasts a few seconds longer, and is up much more frequently, but does not boost secondary effects as much, and does not boost damage.

Power Build Up has a damage, to hit boost, on top of superior secondary boosts.

The other thing to think about is what other powers the sets give. While Power Boost is arguably more frequently useable, it does not have as much mitigation / endurance boosting powers that the Power Mastery APP gives.

Of course Soul Drain helps cover some of the damage boosting ability for the corruptor in the Soul Mastery PPP, but the mitigation is limited to the one shield power as opposed to the Power Mastery APP which has the one shield and Force of Nature.

I'm not entirely sure why dominators would take propel. There are generally better attack powers to be had in their secondaries.

Also the above equations probably doesn't accurately describe what happens when your health is between 0 and 1 percent. (Although I will note the poster did set a boundary input value of 1, AND both will cap at 400 I'm sure so... no biggie).

I noticed that the Dark Armor set, staple S/L power started keeping the consistant drone again. Please please please change this to turn off after a few seconds. You have no idea how annoying toggle sounds are. This goes for 90% of the toggle sounds you have in this game.

I've seen that crazy 1.0 fury. I lived too. =)

(I was at the time using my dark regeneration power though)

It was one of those insane war type battles where the f' if you know what is going on your just punching

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Not a huge PvPer here, but reading this thread certainly doesn't make me want to go visit these zones. Though the sightseer in me does want to visit and check things out. Maybe after I level up my stalker.....

Lots of interesting theoretical and experiantial arguments here. But game statistics should tell the story: IF an unusual percentage of CoVers in the PvP zones are stalkers, then there is probably something wrong. They are either too effective, or there are not enough useful powers to counteract them. The exact percentage is a decision, but this seems to mirror previous Cryptic behavior. AT sets that were incredibly popular were hit, and those that were taken by only the few concept die hards were buffed.

IF, over time the stalkers really constitute an unusual percentage of the PvP zone classes, something will be done about it.

[/ QUOTE ]Using this approach will lead to a faulty analysis.

PvP zones are a joy as Villian. I can go in with my lvl 15 crtpr and not have a care in the world. Why? Because I know if there are any solo heros out there....they are in fear of getting ganked. This means you'll see a fair number of CoV vllians in PvP Zones because it's relatively safe for them to go solo.

If Stalkers have no one to hunt, they get bored and leave. Just because Stalkers aren't actually "in" the zones doesn't mean they aren't affecting the demographics.

PvP is a lot of fun when you can battle X v X without fear of getting AS'd repeatedly by someone you can't see.

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Not with my Grav/Storm in the area, I just love people who think that >=)

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Reason I ask is because no solution will correct ALL the reasons people dislike losing in PVP. We know people will ALWAYS complain about this, so the question we really need to ask (and that Castle raised indirectly) is: What are the legitimate issues with one-shotting and how do we address ALL PVP situations that raise those issues.

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Being a gamer, one that has played dozens(that wasn't dramatic) of MMO's, knows that this type of whining exists in every game that has PvP.. Why? People instinctively want to be the best, they can't just accept that they're built for several strengths and weaknesses.. There IS NO WAY to fix this, most MMO's with PvP have tried, the only game I've ever seen have success with this issue, ended up taking every class skill away, until everyone had the same attacks and abilities, then everyone just complained some more..

Right now, it's as fair as it's going to get, with the exception of a few ridiculous issues that need to be fixed. I personally see nothing wrong with one-shotting myself, especially since I only seem to be able to do it to defenders and controllers.. I'm a level 30 Stalker with full slotted SO's, 4 dam, 2 acc on AS, used with BU, not to mention I'm energy melee, and plenty survive my attacks.

People lose, people win, heck I lose all the time if people are smart enough to use holds on me, and 4/10 times I'm seen. People just need to learn their way around the issues, they need to think- wait, scratch that, people don't like to think, they'd rather just cry and complain.

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It isn't like you can't break from holds. They got rid of perma-holding from the game for a reason. Perma-holding would be exactly like one-shot killing. There is no way to escape. One-shot killing offers no chance for retaliation. I want to make that clear, that is one-shotting-from FULL HEALTH. I am 100% in support of a change, now I don't think they should limit the damage, I think it should be percentile in any case where the damage would be greater than a players total hp. Maybe 75% or 80%, something that would allow a player a chance to react at least. In anycase where the damage wouldn't be greater than the players total hp full damage AS would be fine. There is also no suppression or limitation on AS at the momment, I believe they should implement a period of suppression on a succesfull AS afterwards where a player would gain a perception bonus for a limited period, with a resistance to placate for a while. Call it "wary" or whatever. Make it as long as the duration it would take for hide to reinitialize. The real problem is that in a game that has discarded the possibility of being permanently held, for the sole reason of lack of player interaction and fairness, in a game that has toggle drops so that people can't be invincible, in that game, you cannot reasonably argue that someone should be allowed to kill someone else in one hit when they are at full health. And yes that should include damage done by trip mines too, no blasters shouldn't be able to tp you into something from which there is no hope of survival. It does not create a fun atmosphere where both parties get to at least participate in a battle, that is what this game seems to promote in most of their policies. I and most of those arguing this case are simply asking for consistency.

One shotting will be ending at some time, Castle as indicated as much in the stalker forum. The developers have not settled on the way that will happen, but that is my understanding of the situation.

In PvE stalkers are fine. In PvP stalkers are overpowered. Once they cap the assassin strike damage to a reasonable ammount, stalkers might be alright. It's hard to say. In anycase, I'm sure the changes are on the drawing board atm.

I've heard all the arguments about perception etc, they are quite a bit misleading. It isn't as easy as you may think to get perception powers, especially early level when your picking your powers mostly based on PvP. I have played all AT's and I know that when I'm choosing most of my powers up to lvl 30 PvP is generally not high on the list. Now don't get me wrong, I've suffered at times. But realistically not everyone has the luxury of getting tactics etc for the levels needed for the lower zones.

You may say well what about accuracy enhancements. How long do they last? And how many does it take to see the double hide/stealthed stalkers? And how easy is it for stalkers to get away and just wait a minute until those yellow pills are worn off. Yes for arguments sake they are out there, but they don't really affect the battle ground that often, because they are just so impracticle to keep up all the time. And frankly players really don't know when a stalker is around until they use one, and hell they could be wasting them doing it.

So you can't really and honestly say they are working options to counter us stalkers.

And props to all the MA/* stalkers fighting for a better animation to AS , cause i'm rooting for you =)

almost certain that would be a bug

Hey, I say it like I see it. But here is a more poignant question, why did you even bother to open your figurative mouth? Or does your -valueless- post indicate acceptance with everything aforementioned, excepting of course that most trivial sentence? But You know what? Why am I even bothering to respond. Maybe I should delete this, and save you even seeing it...

but i'm too lazy I suppose and it's easier to press post, and heck you obviously don't care.

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Have you ever played a stalker in pvp?

No matter how many reds I eat, there's still a very real chance that I'm not going to kill in one hit, and will get my butt handed to me. I've lost to many AT's in one on one type fights, in truth, I'm absolutely positive I've lost more than I've won.

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And yet, nothing resists Placate.

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So untrue. There's skills that resist placate, just like ones that resist hold, fear, etc. There's also skills that make it literally impossible for us to get anywhere near a target.

Someone mentioned we have no holds. We have caltrops... but we're looking for trouble if we use it. It lets the enemy stop running and beat us to a pulp instead... because any well played AT that survives our AS can stand ground and take us out.

Silly thread.

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In games I've seen in the past, 75% of someone's health was generally considered tops for rogue/assassin hit.

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If that was done, a stalker would NEVER win a fight against anyone...

Z

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Please... are you saying that a stalker never kills anyone but a squishy? I have seen good stalkers in action. The difference of HP of a lvl 50 controller who has experienced 750 damage in one hit is 250 hp. You can do that much damage, trust me. What risk is there in killing someone in one hit? And as to popping yellows, it dosn't take 2 breakfrees to get out of a hold, it takes 1. How many yellows does it take to see someone who has stealth and hide on? And even though you see them, it dosn't mean you'll interupt their AS in time to save yourself. They do have defence sets after all, and with a base of 50% to-hit even minor defences can push the ball in their favor.

But your complaints are as expected, the boards were full of people who complained when they suggested tweaking holds and adding break frees and suppression. Dear lord holds are a controllers only defence didn't you know. Dear lord all a stalker can do is their AS!

Points of note:

*1 - 75% is a number used for an example, that percentage could be anything deamed reasonable by the developers. Though on a squishy 75% would be more than enough.

*2 - I suggested a 75% cap or your regular damage whichever is lower. This means that on a tanker, where 75% of their hp is well over the damage you already do, you wouldn't see any difference in damage at all. Noteably if you see someone who is already hurt, 75% of their total health in damage may kill them anyway, that isn't a crazy concept either. In that situation the person has at least engaged an enemy before death.

*3 - There is nothing you can say to justify a situation where someone can be killed from FULL HEALTH, in one attack.

*4 - This has nothing to do with how I PvP, or how I handle myself in PvP. I DO keep +perception powers on all the time(even with those you still don't see stalkers more than not), I do move constantly, I do watch for signs like ripples in the water, and all that... and guess what it's not part of this discussion, nor should your skill at PvP be

*5 - I don't expect the developers to nerf you into oblivion, if for some wild reason your AS is nerfed somewhat (I sort of expect it), I wouldn't be adverse to you getting a slight increase in other areas, defence or whatnot. HOWEVER, you do get much more defence, than sets that don't have defence at all.

*6 - Finally, and this is the stretch. Please try to think about the bigger picture before you let loose your opinions. The analogy between perma-holding and full-killing in one hit has nothing to do with comparisons between holds and the damage of AS, except in so far as the futility it presents to the victim. THE futility, the unacceptable part about stalkers, isn't the raw upfront damage, it is the outright killing from full health with ONE attack (stressing the ONE). This is where you need to think a little about fairness in the game, how is this fair to your victim, you have to stand back and think about that. How is it fair to you if your hit down in one hit? Where is the interaction that makes this a game? I don't sit down to a game of monopoly and let someone win on the first roll, nor would I be gratified if I did win on the first roll of a game of monopoly. Why should you be happy with a one hit kill (again the point being made -- from full health). I think your being cheated out of a challenge. And I KNOW the people being killed in one hit, are being cheated out of a game.




**As a final note, and I do appreciate this honest analysist of a stalker given by Quason, I will point you to this post here click here

Please make note how powerfull they are, that they can basically get away from anyone, that they can basically kill most things even if those things can see them. Don't tell me that a 75% percentile cap would do them under, I know that to be untrue.

Risk versus reward, is a funny concept to begin with, what risks do stalkers take currently well they do have low hp and low defence (higher in comparison than most squishies but low just the same). Yes, they do have that. What rewards do they get? Controlled critical strikes, crippiling damage at their fingertips. But... in the end does that mean the are justified in being able to kill someone (in pvp) in one hit from full health? Nope, it really dosn't. Does it mean it is a balanced concept? Not in the least.

The main problem with stalkers is that the situation where someone can be killed from full health in one hit exists. That situation is a big no no in a game that will not allow perma-holding. It is a hypocritical scenario in terms of risk versus reward. All team help aside, if someone could be held indefinately there would be no risk in defeating them. Why? There is no chance for retaliation, and no chance for any interaction between players, it is ultimately a breading ground for frustration and rightly so. Likewise, the exact same situation is created when you allow someone to sneak in and kill from full health in one hit. There is no chance for retaliation, there is no chance for escape, you died and why? Because the developers have allowed the situation to exist where it could happen. Ultimately kills in one hit from full health should be removed completely from the game, not only for it's blatant abusive nature, but because in terms of risk versus reward in PvP it is simply not balanced, nor does it provide any actual FUN (aka a real battle).

Ok there are a few stalkers out there who are saying to themselves, wait a minute I think it's fun. But there were also controllers who thought holding people before suppression and breakfrees was fun too. In anycase, the scenario is before the developers where players can die from full health, without a chance to participate in the battle which killed them.

There are ways to tweak stalker PvP though, which wouldn't be so bad. Make their assassin strike cap at a percentage of their target's maximum hp OR their normal damage, whichever is smaller. In games I've seen in the past, 75% of someone's health was generally considered tops for rogue/assassin hit. But any percentage could be implemented. Besides in the case of a tanker the damage you would be hitting currently with your stalker would be lower than 75% of their health so your tanker AS hits wouldn't change at all. It would be the hits you do on defenders, controllers, and all other squishy characters. (Even damage done amongst yourselves.)

What else can be done? Suppression: as shown with holds suppression is a very successfull tool. After a hold is worn out, a period of immunity to that particular hold is granted. Well how could you deal with AS? After a successfull AS, grant a period of immunity to other [censored] (sorry the plural of AS, it's getting censored lol) and potentially placate too.

Why would you do that? It would prevent the stalker from being able to run without some time of vulnerability FROM THE PERSON THEY HIT. (They could placate others successfully, just not the one they AS'd) It would also prevent the one-two AS attack tactic which would be ultimately used to get around not being able to kill a squishy in one hit. It would force the stalker to actually fight a little outside of their assassin strikes, or have some other AT at their side to help finish the job.

Would this make stalkers unbalanced? I really doubt it, as it is now they are painfully hard to detect, they generally have enough defences and travel powers to scamper away if things go rough, and only really die when more than one opponent gets their hands on them, and even then they often are able to find shelter. But you know, most single opponents don't fair so well when more than one person is attacking them, and everyone dies in group scenarios, and honestly yeah in groups sometimes another AT on the other side ruins what your primary function is. A controller trying to hold a group that has a defender clear minding everyone is going to feel impotent, so will a stalker trying to fight a group with two storm defenders. They are unrelated issues, and are often used as proof of stalker's vulnerability. The only thing it prooves is there are generally a few AT's who make your particular ATs life harder. Every class experiences that, and it dosn't show that stalkers have it rough. The real issue that needs dealing with, the only issue that needs dealing with, is how Assassin strike can kill people from full health in one hit. Deal with AUTO-KILLS, and you will have a set that is much closer to balance than its current situation.

A small needle falls from her wrinkled hand. "Is that him?" She wonders about the uniformed man striding over the freshly cut lawn; she wonders about the life he lived, the horrors he witnessed. War is a terrible thing. Looking down at her work, she fingers the needlework, each stich so satisfying, each line expertly sewn. It is only then that she realizes she's made a quilt out of the flesh of BainofWar. She is quite bloody and for some reason, he is speckled with patches of sea scenes. One of the dolphins seems to be laughing. She starts to laugh too, but stops realizing company is at the door. Opening it, she is shocked to see I-trick, the sexy mail-man in this weird world. He says:

"Lay off the crack would you... "







I mean it...

I-trick witnesses the whole thread and using his patented pun and alliterated allegory refreshes the whole world and dooms it to repeat itself infinitly. A truer torture there never existed... to read (or live) this thread over and over!

However the the taxing effort of the trick doomed him to the same ironic fate and thus he kills himself to stop the infinite loop of torture... but this of course allows the thread to continue:

*A note to readers: No tricks where actually killed in this post, self inflicted or otherwise. (Except in your imaginations... killers)

I hope I do too! (Blush)

you don't get experience... in PvP