FallenHero

[ QUOTE ]
In PvP, what are one's options when fighting a softcapped toon?

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you mean by softcapped in PvP? In PvE, 45% is the magic number to floor a critter's chance to hit you (without buffs/debuffs). Do you mean someone with 45% in PvE who then enters a PvP zone? A softcapped scrapper will have around 34% defense after DR is applied in PvP (a defender will have around 18%).




[ QUOTE ]
Now is global accuracy affected by enhancement diversification?

[/ QUOTE ]

Any accuracy obtained through set bonuses is not affected by ED.




[ QUOTE ]
Say I had 100% accuracy, with 30% elusivity, I would only hit a softcapped toon 8.5% of the time (5% * 1.7) but with the new elusivity at 10%, I would hit him 9.5% of the time (5% * 1.9).

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying that the person you are fighting has 45% defense *after* DR?...that would mean the scrapper needs 80% PvE defense (a defender would never get that high as they are capped around 20%). In order to get that high a scrapper would need buffs or Elude. If we assume you have 100% total accuracy, the target has 10% elusivity, and has 45% defense or more *after DR* then your numbers look good.


Chance to hit equation:

cth = clamp( accMod * clamp( baseToHitPvP + toHitMods - DefMods ) )

accMod = inherentPowerAcc * ( 1 + accuracyEnhancments + accBonuses ) * ( 1 - elusivity )


Using your numbers:

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
accMod = inherentPowerAcc * ( 1 + 1.0 ) * ( 1 - 0.10 )
= inherentPowerAcc * ( 2.0 ) * ( 0.90 )
= inherentPowerAcc * 1.8

cth = inherentPowerAcc * 1.8 * 0.05
= 9.0% (chance to hit assuming the inherent accuracy is 1.0)
</pre><hr />




[ QUOTE ]
If my math is wrong, please let me know. But the from the math I just don't see the elusivity nerf really being a deal breaker for defense toons.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets use some "realistic" numbers. There will be folks who only fight with Elude up but lets look at what most def based enemies in PvP will have. In PvE, most defense based toon are sitting somewhere between 30% to 45% defense. That translates to somewhere around 24% to 34% in PvP. Your toHit buffs are also affected by DR, and appears to max out around 30%.

So with 100% accuracy, 30% toHit (from BU/IOs/Tactics), and 34% def here are the numbers from i13:
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
accMod = inherentPowerAcc * ( 1 + 1.0 ) * ( 1 - 0.30 )
= inherentPowerAcc * ( 2.0 ) * ( 0.70 )
= inherentPowerAcc * 1.4

cth = 1.4 * [0.5 + 0.3 - 0.34]
= 1.4 * [0.46]
= 64% (chance to hit assuming the inherent accuracy is 1.0)
</pre><hr />

now i14 numbers:
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
accMod = inherentPowerAcc * 1.8

cth = 1.8 * [0.46]
= 82% (chance to hit assuming the inherent accuracy is 1.0)
</pre><hr />

Deal breaker? I don't know. You could argue that I should not have included the toHit numbers in the calculation...or that 30% is too high, especially with DR. Also keep in mind that while most powers have an inherent accuracy of 1.0, there are some that are higher (looking at you KoB).

Anyway, I though I would respond because there were a couple of things I didn't understand. I did alot of copy/paste so check my numbers.

500mil get

Global Name: @FallenHero
Home Server: Freedom

1. 8

2. Forcing me to pick one AT across both factions is a little tough. I will say in i12 I played a lot more buffing/disruption type toons. Now I mostly play melee.

3. 10

If someone wants to do zone pvp then they should roll on Freedom. Is it b/c we are more competitive than other servers? No. It is b/c we have more potential targets in a zone than other servers. I'm not crazy about the use of the word "competitive" when describing Zone PvP. I like zone PvP, but I would never describe it as competitive.

4. D

5. 1

6. 5

7. A

8. True

I think that holding events in an environment that prohibits trash talking is a good thing, especially for newbies. Newbies learning the ropes in organized events is less stressful than newbies stepping into a pvp zone for the 1st time. My only criticism of the PvPEC is that your events encourage damage dealers and discouraged teaming (more than 2 people). Hold some events for controllers/dominators/defenders/corruptors...they don't have to be blueside vs redside.

9. D (since this survey is about zone pvp)

10. You need Developer involvement. There is this perception that the Devs don't PvP. I hear about community reps participating in PvP events, but I never hear about developers. Wave your magic time and resource wand and make the developers organize and/or participate in PvP events. If the perception is true and the devs really don't like PvP, then whip out that wand again and make them hire someone who does.

A couple of late night comments:

1) Many of your enhancements are level 50. So if you go to a zone like Siren's Call you will lose many of your set bonuses.

2) AoE powers like Death Shroud and Quills are almost worthless in PvP. There are those who say "But they will help with stalkers". If you keep moving then stalkers will be of no concern to you...as a scrapper you shouldn't be afraid of stalkers.

3) Use the website City of Data to find out how much damage your powers do in PvP. Barbed Swipe does more damage than Lunge in PvP (Flurry from speed pool does more damage than both lol).

4) Cloak of fear has an extremely short duration in PvP...not sure it is worth it.

5) Why 6 slot stamina with Performance Shifter?



/Dark isn't a great secondary in PvP b/c your heal requires a toHit check. If you plan on only PvPing at level 50 then your enhancements are fine (levelwise). Your selection of IOs is odd to me...what set bonuses are most important to you?...keep in mind things like +recharge are affected by DR in PvP (what you see in mids isn't reality in PvP).

Maybe someone who isn't half asleep can give you better info!

Here is a list of Power pool attacks and the damage they did in i13 PvP (from an old post I had made). The numbers are for a level 50 tanker.

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
POWER DAMAGE
Boxing 70.46
Kick 101.60
Air Sup 90.82
Jump Kick 88.11
Flurry 150.56
</pre><hr />

I just logged in and checked the real numbers, they are the same.


Ranged attacks for melees were nerfed
[ QUOTE ]
[u]Melee AT Ranged Attacks[u]: Melee archetypes (Tankers, Brutes, Scrappers and Stalkers) had their ranged attacks in their primary, secondary and Epic (Hero Ancillary/Villain Patron power) pools reduced slightly. Since Melee archetypes use ranged attacks that are set on the melee damage table, they do much more damage then they should with ranged attacks. We're reducing this slightly, but overall we're comfortable with the range attacks being very useful.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a great mission. I've been getting my *$% handed to me on challenge level 4. Going to be playing with this mission over the weekend (hopefully it stays up). Its a great challenge for melee types.

[ QUOTE ]
Its been said that lvl 50 purple sets work in any zone is this true? It was also said that they get scaled down is this true?
Have i been wasting my Inf on lvl 33 sets for nothing?

[/ QUOTE ]

FYI: All of your regular IO set bonuses will work in Siren's Call as long as the IOs are level 33 or lower...Even if the power isn't available in Siren's.

[ QUOTE ]
before anyone jumps in and says something about aim+bu being used recall that the dr tohit cap is ~30% and most builds can hit about 25% pretty easily. All builds w/ aim can hit the limit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is the DR curve for To Hit the same for every AT? The only thing I tested when i13 came out was defense (I was too lazy/disappointed to test anything else). I assumed all things affected by DR depended on AT.

Guide to Perception (Kinda old, no info on VEATs last time I checked).

Wiki article with stealth info 1
Wiki article with stealth info 2

[ QUOTE ]
I would like to know if anyone either knows or has a link to what the defense and resist soft caps are, and what defense range above the soft caps would be suitable for i13+ pvp.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no such thing as a "Soft Cap" in PvP. Your enemies in PvP will slot for accuracy and toHit. Their chance to hit you will depend on their acc and toHit as well as your Defense and Elusivity. In PvE, most critters don't "slot" for accuracy or tohit and elusivity doesn't exist (thats why we can say 45% = softcap).

The other problem is Diminishing Returns. How much Defense you are allowed to have and how much toHit your enemies are allowed to have is AT dependent. My defender with 45% defense to ranged attacks in PvE will only have 18% def to ranged in PvP b/c of DR (defenders are actually *hard* capped at around 21% defense). Compare that to my stalker that has around 45% melee def in PvE...that gets reduced to around 34% def in PvP.

It's not very straightforward, but the concept of a soft cap doesn't exist in PvP.

[ QUOTE ]
you're not taking into consideration bursts and dps. things like tf and snipes are good openers. basically, t=0 once they start hitting.

with a fluid attack chain and assuming a tactical advantage (knowing your opponent) your max burst will happen using one of those as a starter.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you ignore animation time in your DPS calculation then you are 100% correct.

In the time it took you to hit someone with Total Focus for 240 points of damage, you could have hit that same enemy with 242 points of damage using Power Blast + Power Bolt. The damage is about the same, and yes when using TF the damage happens at once BUT...you are rooted for 3.3 seconds. Which is more than enough time for enemies to catch up to you (or better yet enough time for stalkers to pop you).

I have no doubt that you are having fun in PvP with your long animating attacks. My point is that there are better things you can do to make yourself more survivable.

Earth/TA, TA with anything is pretty nasty. Storms are annoying when I play my melee toons.

[ QUOTE ]
Are you sure about that? I'm not the most brilliant Set-Builder around, but at least last time I checked on Mid's a secondary like NRG dealt more than the primary. I was doing something wrong maybe?

Confirmations?

[/ QUOTE ]

Use City of Data to get your PvP info. Mids doesn't always show the PvP data correctly. CoD version isn't sync'ed up with live but I trust it more.

Base Damage numbers at level 50 (PvP): <font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Energy Punch: 94.43
Bone Smasher: 137.44
Total Focus: 240.00 (3.3 second cast time)

Power Blast: 145.31
Power Bolt: 96.92
E. Torrent: 52.65
Power Burst: 169.23
Sniper: 266.15 (over 4 second cast time)
Ex. Blast: 45.31
</pre><hr />

In PvP Range &gt; Melee. As others have recommended, you should focus on doing damage from a distance. And despite what travel suppression is doing, you want to remain mobile. Things with long animation times, in general, are a bad idea (in PvP).

Your base Endurance Per Second (EPS) is 1.67, that is without Stamina, accolades, set bonuses, and toggles.

Open your build in Mids and click on every toggle you expect to have on while PvPing (click the black circle to green). I have TI, Uny, Inv, Tough, Weave, and FA enabled on your build. Now click the "View Totals" button and hover your mouse over "EndUse". Your EPS is *very* low (1.19). In *PvE* people consider base EPS to be too low (1.67). Your build wouldn't work in PvE with all those toggles running and it really won't work in PvP. IMO you need to get your net EPS over 2.0 for zone pvp. If you plan on doing lolfiteclub it needs to be much higher than 2.0 EPS.

The forum monster eating your post would have sucked so I added it to the existing Elusivity page on paragonwiki.

http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Elusivity

[ QUOTE ]
Stalker:

Secondary Powers:

(Energy Armor) Kinetic Shield: SmashingElusivity, LethalElusivity, EnergyElusivity +30%
(Energy Armor) Power Shield: ColdElusivity, FireElusivity, PsionicElusivity, NegativeElusivity +30%

(Ninjitsu) Ninja Reflexes: MeleeElusivity +40%
(Ninjitsu) Danger Sense: RangedElusivity, AoEElusivity +30%

(Super Reflexes) Focused Fighting: MeleeElusivity +30%
(Super Reflexes) Focused Senses: RangedElusivity, PsionicElusivity +30%
(Super Reflexes) Evasion: AoEElusivity +30%


[/ QUOTE ]

The meleeElusivity was supposed to have been fixed (decreased from 40% to 30%) in a previous patch. CoD is slightly out of date (live version = 18.20081210.10T4, CoD version = 18.20081105.2T).

[ QUOTE ]
With those numbers...let's say someone has 90% elusivity running. I have 90% Acc in an attack and 30% Acc set bonus. Does that mean my +Acc is 30%? Then it moves on to to hit and defensive calculations?

[/ QUOTE ]


Chance to hit equation:

cth = clamp( accMod * clamp( baseToHitPvP + toHitMods - DefMods ) )

accMod = inherentPowerAcc * ( 1 + accuracyEnhancments + accBonuses ) * ( 1 - elusivity )



Using your numbers:

<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
accMod = inherentPowerAcc * ( 1 + 0.90 + 0.30 ) * ( 1 - 0.90 )
= inherentPowerAcc * ( 2.2 ) * ( 0.10 )
= inherentPowerAcc * 0.22
</pre><hr />

If the inherent accuracy is 1.0 then your accMod would be 0.22 (which would then be multiplied by the toHit portion of the equation).

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Please post in the i13 PvP feedback section (under Developers Corner). Ranting here will change nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

The OP can make a post to the section he wants. This forum was appropriate for his comments. Not only that, the player was not ranting about anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

*checks calendar*



roffle.

[ QUOTE ]
Hey, why should I? It is not me who is crying all over the forums because PvP in this game has died. I could care less. It's your problem, not mine. I just figured I would be nice enough to show you *why* your precious PvP is dying.

[/ QUOTE ]

We aren't "crying all over the forums because PvP in this game has died", we are QQ'ing because some the changes made in i13 to PvP were for people like you. People who will never like PvP in this game because they can't go into a pvp zone solo and perform like they do in solo PvE.

Multibuilds aren't really a PvP addition, but it will bring in new folks who didn't want to give up their PvE build.

Adding Rewards will bring in new people to PvP.

Adding objectives (other than killing) will bring in new people to PvP.

Dumbing it down for people like you was a bad idea in my opinion. Because in the end folks like you are going to get defeated, repeatedly. And instead of trying to learn how to get better, you get angry, and ultimately post about it on the forums.


Turn off your enemy chat and adapt...or stick to PvE.

Please post in the i13 PvP feedback section (under Developers Corner). Ranting here will change nothing. Maybe the Devs will listen to a PvP newbie like yourself (by newbie I mean someone who enters Warburg solo and expects not to get ganked...and for there to be no trash talking).

Giving us access to real numbers in the game was the best feature for me (Combat Attribute Window, enhancement window info, pop up info).




Other good features:

VEATs

Optional Character Slots Purchases

Player Notes

Zone Event System Message Channels

Ability to combine inspirations

Multiple builds

Toggle dropping changes

Some of my toons never leave PvP zones (unless I need to buy BFs). It would be nice to get some bonuses/accolades for logging out in the arenas and PvP zones. +Damage, +HPs, +Mez, +Mez Resist, Tp foe resist, +Perception, etc...something useful in PvP (they could be PvP only bonuses).

[ QUOTE ]
team buffs have a mechanics problem. Teams vary in size from 1-8 so a buff that applies to everyone on the team is multiplied in effectiveness from 1x to 8x. Either a buff is useless for small teams or godmode for large teams - or both.

What if team buffs had diminishing returns? Say 150% effectiveness for teams of 1-2, 125% for 3-4, 100% for 5-6, and 75% for 7-8 (numbers given are just an idea, the real numbers would need to be better balanced and more complex like (Y-1) X (12.5% + R/2.3).

That way buffs would be more useful on smaller teams and less powerful on bigger teams than they are now. A team buff should still give a bigger total boost on a large team but not 4x on an 8 person team what it does on a 2 person team.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Devs have always encouraged team play. Your idea would nerf 2 ATs that are very team oriented. I have many Defenders that cannot solo most missions on heroic. On teams I do well, on teams with other defenders/controllers I do very well (assuming they know what they are doing....and I know what I am doing). Quotes from my really outdated CoH manual:

Controller - "A Controller who wishes to adventure solo must do so with extreme caution. The archetype really contributes as part of a group"

Defender - "The Defender is a suitable archetype for grouping, though soloing is possible"

Why do you feel that team buffs have a mechanics problem? Are your non-buffing/debuffing toons having a problem finding teams?

I would only agree to an idea like this one if the diminishing returns applied to *all* ATs. Scrappers and blasters do less damage...the taunt effectivness of tanks goes down.

Making allies stronger and enemies weaker is what controllers and defenders do. Defenders and controllers can't solo missions as well as scrappers and blasters (at least in the early game). Why is it so bad that a group of 8 scrappers and blasters can't run thru missions as well as a group of 8 defenders and controllers?

Heaven forbid they have a week or two to spend with family and friends.

*Rolls Eyes*

Although their posts do bring me comfort....PLZ COME BACK! WHERE R U FOLKS!