Wyldhunt
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Posts
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Joined
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Hey Kragothe - saw you in-game over the weekend while logged in with Amber Fist. But it looked like you were in a private conversation, so I went on, and then you logged out. Each time I'm logged in, I'll check to see whether you're on and if so send you a tell. That's likely about the only way for us to get on each other's friends list, as my schedule of play is varied.
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Quote:My Achille's heel right there when playing any Melee.Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
Pace yourself.
That's a great list to have, SinisterDirge. -
I've had that feeling since Going Rogue hit. Since I'm not a hardcore all-my-life-on-CoX player (in fact, my SG is "The League of Occasional Heroes"), there are now just enough "content" options to keep my interest going. Especially with the end-game content and grind targets (certain IOs and Incarnate powers), enough players are continuing with their high-levels that I can tag along in TFs/trials most of the time I want to.
Still... I want more zone interaction in Paragon especially, and more immersive story arcs. Without the "too many ambushes" detail, I would love to see ALL the old missions get a review and many of them be more like the Praetoria changing mission objectives and branching detail dialogue. -
UberRod, I agree with you. Unfortunately, several other players and at least the Devs that matter don't agree with us. So I don't take Power Surge and likely will skip Unstoppable when I next try Inv/. I do wish we had an option though - options are good.
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I gotta admit - when I decided on /Stone for my /Elec Tanker, Fault was near the bottom of my priority list. The reason I decided on /Stone was that wanted something different from /SS, and Elec/ could help /Stone's liabilities.
In fact, my first build didn't even have Fault in it. But with others crowing about Fault, I fit it in - delayed - and got to 50 while using it occassionally. I slotted it for Taunt, not Stun, using it as a way to keep aggro better and get Perfect Zinger's set bonuses. But in the late 40s, and as I cranked up my difficulty at 50, I began to see Fault's usefulness. When I needed to respec for some other changes, I put Fault at level 20.
At this point, before Incarnates but with S/L Def +42.2%, I could reliably do +0/x8/bosses/EBs against all level 50 tip missions available to heroes except Arachnos, Carnies with Ring Mistresses, and Devouring Earth.
I got most of my desired Accolades, Incarnate Alpha. Then, during more MIDs tinkering, I discovered Razzle Dazzle, and respecced again for these in Fault, this time with 6 Perfect Zingers in Taunt. I don't have any Incarenate abilities beyond Alpha.
Now, with the exact build below, I CAN reliably solo at +1/x8/bosses/EBs all level 50 tip missions. Why? Fault. Yeah, the build is extremely tough by most measures, but Fault adds that magic mitigation level to keep it alive.
I don't have to run from Longbow Sonic Grenades. I can concentrate on the Ring Mistresses while the Carnie minions leave me alone. I can last through all the crap Arachnos can dish out. I still have to sometimes manage positioning of Devouring Earth spawns, depending upon how many Cairns/Quartzes and Devoured there are, but the build can survive them.
How?
1. Evaluate the spawn. Locate primary targets. Bosses to down quickly are: Ring Mistresses, and Longbow bosses which use Fear (per Paragon Wiki's Longbow list, these are Longbow bosses #3 and #9).
2. Open with Fault.
Note: sometimes I have to switch #1 and #2 if I can't first evaluate the spawn due to the map.
3. If I need to thin the spawn, use attack chain Fault->Tremor->Stone Fist->Seismic Smash; pepper with Power Sink. If I need to down a boss quickly, use attack chain Stone Fist->Seismic Smash->Stone Fist->Stone Mallet->Stone Fist->Heavy Mallet->Stone Fist->Stone Mallet; pepper with Fault and Power Sink when available. Swap attack chains when boss/spawn mix changes.
..A: for Devouring Earth, if even after repositioning away from Cairns/Quartzes more are spawned, locate and destroy Cairns first, then return to destroying targets. There are times when I have to concentrate on some minions singly to defeat them in order to thin the spawn.
4. Panic buttons are Energize, Eye of the Magus and inspirations.
What synergies make it work?
1. Damage Resistance (look at build)
2. Near S/L Def softcap.
3. Regen/heal of Energize.
4. Fault's Stun and KB.
5. ST attacks Stun and KB.
6. Offensive use of Power Sink (usually twice is all that's needed), and Lightning Field draining enemy End, thereby reducing their number of attacks.
7. Force Feedbacks in both Fault and Tremor, along with enough other +Rech, along with Slow resistances, keeping Hasted power chains readily available.
8. Having sufficient panic buttons in Eye of the Magus, Energize, and inspirations (I keep 2 Orange, 1 Yellow, 4 Purple, 4 Green, 4 Blue, 3 Breakfree, and 1 Rez, with one slot free to use as received).
BTW - don't use Fault with Rikti - that just means chasing the buggers around the map during the spawn cleanup.
But what about Nemesis under Vengeance? I haven't found this to be a problem yet. Normally when that starts, most of the non-Lieutenant spawn is gone. In one of the most fun battles, NPC Miss Thystle aggroed 3 additional spawns, and the Vegeance was flying almost as fast as their bullets. I did hit Eye of the Magus then, and Power Sinked every time it was up, but was surprised at how quickly the battle was over - of course, I let Miss Thystle fall to her overconfident ways and didn't focus on aggro control for her squishyness. ;-)
Question to other Elec/ players: I am not claiming that Elec/Stone is the shiznet by any means, but I am interested in comparing secondaries here. Do you find /SS's Footstomp makes up for Fault in [effectively +0]/x8/bosses/EBs tip missions? What from your secondary allows you to survive equivalent challenges?
Here's the current buid:
I am going for the +3 PvP IO and +3 Def PvP IO, 5-slotted Armageddon in Tremor, Task Force Commander, and likely Cardiac Core Paragon, so this build isn't "complete" yet. I'll also continue to BAF/Lambda as time and interest allows.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.93
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
The Amber Fist: Level 50 Mutation Tanker
Primary Power Set: Electric Armor
Secondary Power Set: Stone Melee
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Charged Armor -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(9), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(9), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 1: Stone Fist -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 2: Stone Mallet -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 4: Heavy Mallet -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 6: Static Shield -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), ResDam-I(40)
Level 8: Grounded -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 12: Energize -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Rchg(13), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(13), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(31), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(31)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 16: Conductive Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(17), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(17), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 18: Lightning Reflexes -- Run-I(A)
Level 20: Fault -- RzDz-Acc/Rchg(A), RzDz-EndRdx/Stun(21), RzDz-Acc/EndRdx(21), RzDz-Stun/Rng(25), RzDz-Acc/Stun/Rchg(25), FrcFbk-Rechg%(29)
Level 22: Lightning Field -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(23), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(23), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Oblit-%Dam(34)
Level 24: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 26: Power Sink -- P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(27), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(27), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(29)
Level 28: Taunt -- Zinger-Taunt(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(46), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(46), Zinger-Acc/Rchg(50), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(50), Zinger-Dam%(50)
Level 30: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 32: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(33), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(33)
Level 35: Tremor -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(36), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), FrcFbk-Rechg%(37)
Level 38: Seismic Smash -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(42), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(42), LkGmblr-Rchg+(42), Ksmt-ToHit+(43), Empty(43)
Level 44: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(45), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(45), LkGmblr-Rchg+(45)
Level 47: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(48), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(48), LkGmblr-Rchg+(48)
Level 49: Tactics -- Rec'dRet-Pcptn(A)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Cardiac Total Core Revamp
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Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(19), Numna-Heal/Rchg(19), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(43)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(15), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(15), P'Shift-End%(46)
Level 4: Ninja Run
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Thank you, paragonwiki! Check http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Powexec_...Slash_Command). Now for some testing, and outfitting all my trays...
Glad I already got used to a better movement key system than WASD!
Tray 1: Q-P
Tray 2: 1-0
Tray 3: SHIFT+[Q-P]
Tray 4: SHIFT+[1-0]
Tray 5: CTRL+[Q-P]
Tray 6: CTRL+[1-0]
Tray 7: CTRL+SHIFT+[Q-P]
Tray 8: CTRL+SHIFT+[1-0]
That should keep me on the keyboard and away from the clicking!
Of course, I'll have to get rid of most of my emote keybinds, but I really don't use them these days anyway. -
Long ago, in the self-interest of quick responsiveness, I ditched WASD and changed to DSCF instead (with strafe keys X and V). That gives me the Q-P row for tray 1; 1-0 for tray 2, and SHIFT+[1-0] for tray 3 (along with being more ergonomic). Swapping between primary movement powers is bound to Tab (Fly/Hover, SJ/CJ, SS toggle); Sprint toggle is bound to SHIFT+Tab. (Enemy_next is G; enemy_near is B; friend_next is A; friend_near is Z.) I wish the game would allow key assignments to all trays, but this gets me by.
I also now have a large enough monitor to get all 9 trays displayed without taking up too much of my view. I place tray 4 just to the left of tray 1, and this is where I put my "important" rare-use click powers, such as Eye of the Magus. I keep my most-used offensive powers in Q-T; most-used defensive toggles or lesser-used click powers in Y-P, going up in Tray 2-3 for each category. -
I don't play most support sets because I do find buffing tedious. But a possibility to cater to both types of players: allow an inherent power to applicable PowerSets which would alternate between an AoE-buff style or a single-cast buff style. We already know that coding to swap power effects exists.
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Quote:Intersting, Supermax - the few iTrials I've done, we've all traded aggro well. Just as soon as I had no rings on me, I'd spam Taunt/Fault. The few times I saw someone with two rings, it seemed all the other Tankers (me included) redoubled our efforts to get the AV's attention.Originally Posted by Supermax
That's really the key, and I wish there were more people like you. My tank almost always gets the most attention, I assume because I'm outdamaging other tanks, because I rarely use taunt. And about 95% of the time, I end up being sequestered, because nobody on the league takes the aggro from me.
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Quote:Hmm - perhaps a change from 100% to 100 might be the way to do this? Nah, that would put too high a priority on IOs (which the game isn't supposed to be balanced around) and Accolades. Put it at 95% crash instead.Originally Posted by Nihilii
The crash is 100% endurance. My brute has 124 endurance right now and always does a full crash to 0 even if I'm full.
I don't think anybody complained about deaths due to the crash in this topic, unless I misread. The problem is the resources involved to deal with the crash ; insps, time, attention. -
Hello, my global is @Wyldhunt, and I've completed step 2 of the program to cure Altitis (been suffering since Issue 2).
Especially if you see me logged in with Amber Fist, feel free to /tell me to help with missions/trials/TFs. I'll let you know whether I have time right then - sometimes I can play for hours and hours, sometimes less than one. -
Rather than dissect your build, I'm posting the lastest incarnation of mine for comparison. It does go for S/L Def softcap, and I have included the Alpha and Accolades I have/am going for. Feel free to use what you like and disregard the rest!
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.93
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
The Amber Fist: Level 50 Mutation Tanker
Primary Power Set: Electric Armor
Secondary Power Set: Stone Melee
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Charged Armor -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(9), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(9), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 1: Stone Fist -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 2: Stone Mallet -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 4: Heavy Mallet -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 6: Static Shield -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), ResDam-I(40)
Level 8: Grounded -- GA-3defTpProc(A)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 12: Energize -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Rchg(13), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(13), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(31), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(31)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 16: Conductive Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(17), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(17), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 18: Lightning Reflexes -- Run-I(A)
Level 20: Fault -- RzDz-Acc/Rchg(A), RzDz-EndRdx/Stun(21), RzDz-Acc/EndRdx(21), RzDz-Stun/Rng(25), RzDz-Acc/Stun/Rchg(25), FrcFbk-Rechg%(29)
Level 22: Lightning Field -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(23), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(23), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Oblit-%Dam(34)
Level 24: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 26: Power Sink -- P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(27), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(27), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(29)
Level 28: Taunt -- Zinger-Taunt(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(46), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(46), Zinger-Acc/Rchg(50), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(50), Zinger-Dam%(50)
Level 30: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 32: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(33), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(33)
Level 35: Tremor -- Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(A), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(36), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Armgdn-Dam%(37), FrcFbk-Rechg%(37)
Level 38: Seismic Smash -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 41: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(42), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(42), LkGmblr-Rchg+(42), Ksmt-ToHit+(43), SW-ResDam/Re TP(43)
Level 44: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(45), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(45), LkGmblr-Rchg+(45)
Level 47: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(48), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(48), LkGmblr-Rchg+(48)
Level 49: Tactics -- Rec'dRet-Pcptn(A)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Cardiac Core Boost
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Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(19), Numna-Heal/Rchg(19), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(43)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(15), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(15), P'Shift-End%(46)
Level 4: Ninja Run
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So far, I've been backing off as soon as I have one ring, especially since we've had at least 3 others Tankers on the BAFs I did. I've also purely used Taunt and Fault on the AVs, keeping my distance since I can. I attempt to position myself in a group of enemies, away from other players, and use Tremor in between Taunt/Fault.
We've had enough other melee types that the AVs only moved once (Siege) during our BAFs, and it was easy enough to bring him back. -
I'm no great wizard, but I'm learning (and liking) Elec/, so I'll reply.
1. Get Gloom for your ST DPS, sure, but forego Dark Oblit (/EM has plenty of AoE) and get Build Up instead.
2. Weigh Darkest Night versus Manuevers depending upon your playstyle. Darkest Night gives the biggest solo bang for the pick, but higher-level enemies and such will resist its effects, plus you have to keep recasting it.
3. Especially since your getting Power Surge for "oh crap" moments, weigh Spiritual vs Cardiac for your Alpha Incarnate. Due to Power Sink, the +Rech from Spiritual may outweigh the EndRedx from Cardiac. If you get perma-Energize, you get to constantly stack its +Regen with Spiritual's +Heal effect on Regen, and this just might outweigh Cardiac's +ResDam. Be careful here though - the ResDam helps with against enemy alphas better, whereas both ResDam and Regen help against sustained damage.
For slotting, I would sacrifice some Rg/AoE/E/N defense for more S/L defense, and swap the Scirocco's Dervish in Thunder Strike for five Obliterations. The Accuracy of Charged Brawl and Lightning Field could use some help as well - if you can put one more slot in Weave (LotG) or Lightning Field (with Oblits) it'll help - just watch the "rule of 5" when making changes, as you're near it for both +5% Rech and +9% Acc now. -
Quote:I gotta disagree with you pretty strongly on this. You feel like your primary powerset has been invalidated, and you've been relegated to a less-effective Blaster. That is an accurate paraphrasing of your own words, and not taken out of context. Tankers are not in the exact same position as Scrappers and Brutes - both of the latter primarily do damage, whereas that is a secondary for Tankers. This means that Tankers are less-effective Scrappers, which is in the same realm as Illusion Controllers becoming less-effective Blasters.Originally Posted by Local_Man
It is not the same . . . because ALL Tanks are in the exact same position as scrappers and brutes
This statement of yours does let me know you feel this is OK to be done by AT, but not powerset - another viewpoint of yours I strongly disagree with. Even so, yes, I know of plenty of powersets which are bascially "invalid" because they significantly underperform other powersets in much of the content. Gravity control can be considered a contender for this.Quote:Originally Posted by Local_Man
Are there any other places in the game where one particular powerset, but not an entire AT, has been made invalid?
Again I'll say sometimes we do need to allow other teammates with other abilities to fulfill their roles while we take more of a backseat - we'll have other chances to shine. That is as true for the Illusion powerset among Controller powersets as it is for Tankers among other ATs. -
Quote:I have to ask - would you agree with the following statements as well?Originally Posted by Local_Man
Illusion therefore has to adapt to become a somewhat less effective Blaster instead of a Controller. I'm not used to Illusion being weakened in most of the game, so I thought it felt "unfair."
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Tankers therefore have to adapt to become somewhat less effective Scrappers instead of Tankers. I'm not used to Tankers being weakened in most of the game, so I thought it felt "unfair."
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Is it OK to disregard all powersets of an entire AT during one portion of one trial, and not OK to target one primary powerset of another AT during that same portion? Sometimes we do need to allow other teammates with other abilities to fulfill their roles while we take more of a backseat - we'll have other chances to shine. -
Comicsluvr, a few more things you can do for ITF (suggested to me as well by other Tankers):
1. Get the Wedding Band temporary power from the Ring of Peebles arc (it is available via Ourobouros for repeats, though the time it lasts is lessened after the first expires)
2. Get the Eye of the Magus Accolade (yeah, it only lasts a minute each time, but that still helps)
3. If you're close, but not quite softcapped Def to S/L, get the Kinetic Dampener temporary power.
These, along with judicious use of Purple/Orange inspirations, have helped me cover for holes in my Elec/ Tanker. -
Well, for Elec/, UntoldHero has several, and likes /SS best. I have Elec/Stone, and he's fine, though I've said before that I sometimes cast jealous eyes at /SS. I believe that /Stone offers better mitigation (thank you Fault), but I'm sure that /SS offers better damage.
Others have /DM, and like it for Siphon Life. I would say don't count on the -tohit helping much, especially against AVs and higher-level mobs, as that is resistable.
I haven't had good experiences with /Fire on Tankers, so I'll let others with positive things to say comment on it.
/WM should be fine though. Don't worry about redraw, as that does NOT add to animation times now per the devs. -
One of these days, I'll try the 32.5% positional on my Elec/Stone. But until then, the following has served me well:
Def:
S/L: 42.2%
E/N: 22.2%
Res:
S/L: 83.8%
E: 90%
N: 45.6%
Yes, I'm going for the two PvP IOs once I have the funds/merits.
I haven't seen the need for the additional Energy defense at all, and haven't been in position where I couldn't stave off enough Negative damage, even against Romulus in the ITF (where we didn't worry about defeating the Essences and just did Romulus repeatedly until he couldn't take any more). I still haven't done nearly all the content though - are there places where more Negative damage is dished out than ITF's end? -
Am I seeing a trend here, that Elec/ > Inv/ so far in the Incarnate Trials? I've done a few BAF/Lambda now as well; with the leagues being successful after learning the trials.
My Elec/Stone has suffered no defeats in the BAFs, and I've learned a new appreciation for Fault's range (especially slotted with Perfect Zinger). Using that Fault and Taunt allowed me to keep a bit of range from Siege and Nightstar, and make sure Sequestration circles were off other melee types. I didn't suffer actual Sequestration either - there were at least two other tanks on every BAF league I joined, and we did well in trading aggro. I didn't start any pulls of Nightstar/Siege, but did assist getting them to the courts. I didn't get close enough to the turrets to test their damage - I'll remember to do that next BAF I join.
The Lambda was more difficult - I did suffer some defeats in the run & grab temp powers portions, due to taking on too much aggro trying to keep teammates from getting pounded. Marauder didn't get Nova Fist on me, but I did get defeated during a battle with him once - his damage hit just when some other damage did, and it was enough. Still my expectations were not to avoid defeat completely, so that was fine.
I'm not sure Elec/ is really > than Inv/ here, as the Inv/ on the leagues I was with seemed to do OK as well - I'm just seeing more Inv/ complaints on this thread than Elec/.
Having resistance to fall back on when defense was down has proven very good in these trials. I still gotta get on an Apex TF - that'll likely tear up Elec/. -
Quote:I take the opposite from that ratio, in that "choosing a resist powerset" > "choosing a def powerset" for Scrapper/Brute/Tanker, and "choosing a Stalker powerset with more than just def" > "choosing a Stalker powerset with just def". After you've chosen the powerset, then by all means, "building for softcap def" > "building for hardcap resist". And yes, there will be some exceptions to this too.Originally Posted by rsclark
Your evaluation of resist>def might be accurate if it were possible to get capped resist to virtually everything as easy as it is to do with def. To make a fairer comparison you need to look at 1resist vs 4def, which is much closer to the ratio you get in the actual game.
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Oh, man, Breog - your post made me laugh for a long while. I'm glad my Elec/ Tanker chose Tactics rather than Power Surge after all. I haven't suffered the Confusion yet (though I just may, since Tactics's Confuse resistance can be overwhelmed)...
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KM's -damage is an interesting angle. Per http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Archvillain, damage debuffs are NOT resisted by AVs. I'd like to know whether anyone has tested /KM against AVs and attempted to confirm whether -damage is resisted by them. If not, then a tanker with -damage could be a boon to team survivability in these fights.
Especially solo and for speed-clearing, I'd still give /SS the edge over /KM, but if a player has a team bringing the damage, Burst with Power Sink and Mu Mastery should keep the spawns in line. -
Quote:Sorry I didn't pick up that soft-capping was a sore point for you. I did pick up that you didn't want to use Purples/PvP IOs, and stuck with that in the build I posted. Perhaps next time you post a build requesting help, you should also point out that you don't intend to softcap.Originally Posted by Windenergy21
Sorry not going for defense on this one. Boring and overexpensive and not what I'm going for. Perma energize and if going the KM power siphon, and fast recharge pbaoe knockdown and end drain for mitigation and damage.
TBH EXTREMELY annoyed when everyones answer to any non-positionally defense based build is to "cap s/l" its overdone.
FYI, when vengeance is on, everything is capped. On teams if i'm dying with help before any other squishy or even scrapper, something is seriously wrong. Vs. AVs with the elec/KM there should be at least 21%-28% -damage in the finalized build. That on top of elecs resists should be pretty noticeable.
Also, if you're building in a way that assumes use of Vengeance, and you don't play in an Offenders-style team most of the time, I'd say something is seriously wrong right there. To me, +Def is a proactive, not reactive, mitigation strategy. -
Quote:This is what I'm leaning more towards, with an interface which allows the player to specify what he/she personally determines to face in-game. In other words, I'll pick on Sailboat since I've teamed with him all of once now: I value the opinions he (and many others) have given on the forums, but I'm pretty sure I have a different impression of "average content" than he does, mostly because I haven't faced most of the TF content he has.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
When we start looking at specific critters and damage mixes, its starts to become interesting to ask if we can abandon averages altogether and come up with a set of damage targets to survive. In other words, suppose we make a list like this:
1. Tank average 0x8 critter spawn (of each type of high level critter).
2. Tank all Praetorian AVs (singly)
3. Tank Lord Recluse in STF
4. Tank all AVs in LRSF (combined)
5. Tank buffed Bobcat in Tin Mage
etc. Instead of asking how strong a tanker is, we could ask whether a tank build could theoretically reach these specific targets which would have both damage levels and damage mixes intrinsic to them. A tank build would then hit some of them, and only reach a percentage of the rest. That would be a real-world-anchored way to compare tanker builds. Picking the targets for comparison would then be the area of debate.
I'd honestly rather have an interface where I can specify my own target content, say "STF" or "CoT lvl 40-50 at +1/x8/bosses/EBs" and have numbers spit out from that. I think many have a feeling that it's practically impossible to determine the most survivable tankers for all content (even Granite has its Psi-hole), but it may be possible to determine relative survivability for specific content - however, the following has me wondering whether even that's going to require some judgment calls, based on this:
For such situations, how important is it to include the outliers? Well, that's a relevant question for my Elec/SM. I've skipped Power Surge, and instead have Eye of the Magus, Wedding Band, and keep two Oranges in my insp tray - all for Toxic bursts. Will this be enough to see me through Apex? I don't know yet, but I have a feeling it won't, as three DE +1 bosses make me nervous until one of them is down.Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
For example, imagine a mission with lots of minions and Lts that all do smash/lethal damage that ends in an AV that does negative damage. The s/l damage is all in minions and LTs, and the most damage you could possibly face from them is seventeen times the output of one LT. That might end up being far lower than the damage output of the AV. The s/l damage might be 90% of the total damage you might face, but 0% of the total damage from damage sources capable of killing you.
Hmm... Is it worthwhile to abandon "comparative survivability" completely and instead go for "pass-fail (or minimum) survivability?" In other words, in the mission example you give, specify the targets the character will need to survive (X damage mix for each of the spawns the character will face in the mission in burst and over the time brackets). Of course, this would need to include burst damage assuming everything hits, just to remind defense-dependent characters that they could still get defeated by the RNG if they don't have enough HP/Res...
Your workbook already allows us to see survivability numbers vs each damage type, and it could stop there, leaving all arguments of "how much of this damage type will I face?" to players, as those arguments have been around since the beginning of the game, and will continue at least as often as game content changes. Let me suggest this as a short-term goal for a survivability workbook checklist, which would allow it to come to closure for a while:
1. Each of the following by damage type:
...a. Burst damage
...b. Damage during 15s
...c. Damage during the other brackets you already have
2. A composite across all damage types for each bracket (burst/durations), with input cells to allow the player to specificy percentages of total composite for each of the damage types.