The recharge cap is 500% (or +400% ; base is 100%), so the lowest you can get Unstoppable to is 1000/5 = 200 seconds, a downtime of 20 seconds.
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Perhaps I have a misunderstanding of how things work but according to Paragon Wiki: |
Originally Posted by Nihilii
The recharge cap is 500% (or +400% ; base is 100%), so the lowest you can get Unstoppable to is 1000/5 = 200 seconds, a downtime of 20 seconds.
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| Players and critters have a maximum recharge rate bonus of +400%, which cuts recharge time to 1/5th of normal. |
If you reread my post... with only 225% bonus recharge from global bonuses and slotting 6 lvl 50 recharge IOs AND having the very rare spiritual brings the cooldown to 210 seconds... this still leaves a possible 175% recharge bonus you could still theoretically add to further reduce the recharge.
I think I've made what I am trying to say clear now yes?
How much more recharge beyond 225% would you need to knock off that last 30 seconds?
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Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
The recharge cap is effectively per-power, same as any other attribute. Any given power cannot recharge any faster than +400% of its base in the same way that you can't enhance damage of a power beyond +400% (For Blasters/Scrappers/Corrupters/Stalkers) irrespective of where those buffs are coming from (Criticals excepted).
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ah ok I wasn't sure about that fact since the wiki description of limits sounds more like a character limit and not a per power limit thanks for the correction.
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Originally Posted by The_Spad_EU
The recharge cap is effectively per-power, same as any other attribute. Any given power cannot recharge any faster than +400% of its base in the same way that you can't enhance damage of a power beyond +400% (For Blasters/Scrappers/Corrupters/Stalkers) irrespective of where those buffs are coming from (Criticals excepted).
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Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
Even a 20 second downtime is not enough for me not to respec out of this power.
What needs to happen is for Unstoppable to be changed to something along the lines of Strength of Will, so that it is actually useful instead of delayed and guaranteed death.
Uber Talgrim - level 50 emp/dark defender
Uber Rod - level 50 dark melee/regen scrapper
Rod Valdr - level 50 invuln/SS tanker
Talgrim - level 50 ninja/dark mastermind
OMG!! Please add these costume designs now!
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If Unstoppable is causing your guaranteed faceplanting, then you're doing something wrong.|
Originally Posted by UberRod
Even a 20 second downtime is not enough for me not to respec out of this power.
What needs to happen is for Unstoppable to be changed to something along the lines of Strength of Will, so that it is actually useful instead of delayed and guaranteed death. |
When you see the Unstoppable icon in your buff bar blinking? Get the hell out of there, or pop as many Purple and Orange insps as you can, and get ready to mash on some greens and blues too.
I've survived Unstoppable crashes on my Brute while pounding on and being pounded on by AV's.
It takes some luck, and lots of insps, but it's doable.
In those situations, I'd have faceplanted several minutes earlier without Unstoppable. I may not use it very often, but it's bloody useful when I need it.
Warning:
The above post may contain Cynicism, sarcasm and/or pessimism. If you object to the quantities contained, then tough.
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Originally Posted by Canine
I've survived Unstoppable crashes on my Brute while pounding on and being pounded on by AV's. |
(looks at forum title to be sure....)
Okay.
On a Brute, Unstoppable is actually quite a useful situational power, because a Brute has high resist caps and low resist numbers. Thus, the net gain from Unstoppable is much larger for a Brute.
On a Scrapper, the resists caps are much lower. Unstoppable gain is pretty minor.
On a Tanker, the resist number are much higher. Unstoppable gain is a bit larger, but not much.
So, as you say, on a BRUTE, unstoppable as it currently exists is a 'worth it' power, barely.
However, on a TANK, it is not. If you are tackling things that your 'standard' defenses can't handle, on a TANK, then you are doing something very, very wrong.
To address the OP: It is impossible, by design, to perma unstoppable any more.
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The person you're replying to was talking about the Unstoppable crash which is identical for all 3 ATs (and actually hits Scrappers and Brutes worse because they have less powerful inherents), and their advice for dealing with the unstoppable crash applies to everyone.|
Originally Posted by mauk2
....
(looks at forum title to be sure....) Okay. On a Brute, Unstoppable is actually quite a useful situational power, because a Brute has high resist caps and low resist numbers. Thus, the net gain from Unstoppable is much larger for a Brute. On a Scrapper, the resists caps are much lower. Unstoppable gain is pretty minor. On a Tanker, the resist number are much higher. Unstoppable gain is a bit larger, but not much. So, as you say, on a BRUTE, unstoppable as it currently exists is a 'worth it' power, barely. However, on a TANK, it is not. If you are tackling things that your 'standard' defenses can't handle, on a TANK, then you are doing something very, very wrong. |
And if you're tackling things that your "standard defenses" can't handle on a tank it means that you're taking on something like Rularuu (with their massive ToHit bonus from eyeballs and massive damage) or something equally nasty. And T9s are an "ohshi--" power, which Unstoppable functions well enough as if you pay attention to your power notification area, and specifically look for unstoppable to start blinking.
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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As ArcticFahx said, I was responding specifically to the statement that Unstoppable is a guaranteed delayed death sentence.
My only experience of playing Invuln is on a Brute, but the technique for surviving the Unstoppable crash should be pretty much universal. Either a) get the hell out of there and hide while it takes your health and endurance away or b) mash huge numbers of insps and hope you get lucky.
Whether that makes Unstoppable any more or less worth taking on your build is a question only you can answer, as it ties in to your playstyle, expectations and personal tastes. I took it on my Brute, and it's proven useful several times. Your Mileage May Vary.
Warning:
The above post may contain Cynicism, sarcasm and/or pessimism. If you object to the quantities contained, then tough.
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I would think the easiest way to handle the unstop crash is that when you see the icon flash you hit Archmage and Geas. Then perhaps a blue or two if needed. Thats how I handle the crash on Powersurge on my /elec brute. Ought to work just as well for this.|
Originally Posted by Canine
As ArcticFahx said, I was responding specifically to the statement that Unstoppable is a guaranteed delayed death sentence.
My only experience of playing Invuln is on a Brute, but the technique for surviving the Unstoppable crash should be pretty much universal. Either a) get the hell out of there and hide while it takes your health and endurance away or b) mash huge numbers of insps and hope you get lucky. Whether that makes Unstoppable any more or less worth taking on your build is a question only you can answer, as it ties in to your playstyle, expectations and personal tastes. I took it on my Brute, and it's proven useful several times. Your Mileage May Vary. |
Now if your needing to hit your tier 9 more often then those two powers cycle back your might have to mash skittles but how often do you hit that tier 9? Once a play session? At worse once a mission if your in love with the thing
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I might be wrong but if u have 6 IO's slotted in it only 3 of them count not all 6.
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Originally Posted by Kyriani
If you reread my post... with only 225% bonus recharge from global bonuses and slotting 6 lvl 50 recharge IOs
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I know its a bit off the original op but I wanted to address....
"When you see the Unstoppable icon in your buff bar blinking? Get the hell out of there, or pop as many Purple and Orange insps as you can, and get ready to mash on some greens and blues too."
Why would you bother with unstoppable with those in your insp tray?
Mark me down in the fix it or replace it camp.
My invulns have combat shield, wedding band and insp instead of that stinker of a tier 9.
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And if you are the tank that is tanking Recluse in an STF, and accidentally hit Unstoppable, you can't get out of there. I don't want to rely on luck in that situation. If I'm busy, you know tanking, I may miss the icon blinking. But this is missing my point.|
Originally Posted by Canine
If Unstoppable is causing your guaranteed faceplanting, then you're doing something wrong.
When you see the Unstoppable icon in your buff bar blinking? Get the hell out of there, or pop as many Purple and Orange insps as you can, and get ready to mash on some greens and blues too. I've survived Unstoppable crashes on my Brute while pounding on and being pounded on by AV's. It takes some luck, and lots of insps, but it's doable. In those situations, I'd have faceplanted several minutes earlier without Unstoppable. I may not use it very often, but it's bloody useful when I need it. |
The point is that you shouldn't have to worry about the consequences of a power crashing and whether or not you will survive having all your toggles drop. Especially if you are a tank or a brute where by nature you will be surrounded by lots of enemies at the time of the crash. That's just bad design and shows why Strength of Will is a much better power.
A blaster or defender nuke with a crash? Sure. But a tank? No.
Uber Talgrim - level 50 emp/dark defender
Uber Rod - level 50 dark melee/regen scrapper
Rod Valdr - level 50 invuln/SS tanker
Talgrim - level 50 ninja/dark mastermind
OMG!! Please add these costume designs now!
UberRod, I agree with you. Unfortunately, several other players and at least the Devs that matter don't agree with us. So I don't take Power Surge and likely will skip Unstoppable when I next try Inv/. I do wish we had an option though - options are good.
Current primary characters, all on Guardian:
The Amber Fist (Elec/Stone Tanker) | Pixelbeater (Fire/Kin Corr) | The Sequencer (Bots/Traps MM)
Blakkat (Claws/Dark Brute) | Mhogus'thra (Ill/Dark Cont) | Wyldhunt (Beast/Dark MM)
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They all 'count'. They are not all worth the slot, however. ED just gives you massively diminished returns for you SO/IO and slot investment past 3. So, all else being equal, and assuming n the hard cap for the attribute in question doesn't enter into the discussion, a power slotted for something with 3 slot will be less then the same power slotted for 6.|
Originally Posted by LSK
I might be wrong but if u have 6 IO's slotted in it only 3 of them count not all 6.
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For example, if I were silly enough to put 6 Damage SOs (or IOs) in a power and someone else had an otherwise identical alt with 3 Damage SOs (or IOs) in it, mine will do a minuscule amount more damage.
At least that's what I've been led to believe by personal experience, and several other independent sources. I'll admit I have never conducted a well thought out test for this, however.
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You do have an option. Take the power and use the tricks mentioned above. Or take the power and don't, and risk death. Or take the power, and kill everything before it drops. Or take the power, use it as a mule and not bother with it in your tray. Or skip it. Plenty of options. Or avoid the whole set if it bothers you that much.|
Originally Posted by Wyldhunt
UberRod, I agree with you. Unfortunately, several other players and at least the Devs that matter don't agree with us. So I don't take Power Surge and likely will skip Unstoppable when I next try Inv/. I do wish we had an option though - options are good.
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Originally Posted by UberRod
The point is that you shouldn't have to worry about the consequences of a power crashing and whether or not you will survive having all your toggles drop. Especially if you are a tank or a brute where by nature you will be surrounded by lots of enemies at the time of the crash. That's just bad design and shows why Strength of Will is a much better power.
A blaster or defender nuke with a crash? Sure. But a tank? No. |
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Originally Posted by abnormal_joe
I know its a bit off the original op but I wanted to address....
"When you see the Unstoppable icon in your buff bar blinking? Get the hell out of there, or pop as many Purple and Orange insps as you can, and get ready to mash on some greens and blues too." Why would you bother with unstoppable with those in your insp tray? Mark me down in the fix it or replace it camp. My invulns have combat shield, wedding band and insp instead of that stinker of a tier 9. |
I personally don't like the power or the crash on my Invul tank, and skipped it entirely. But, I have seen it used to great effect by others; tanks, brutes, and scraps. It doesn't suit my playstyle, but it is a situationally useful power. In fact, I appreciate sets in which I don't feel the NEED to have every power. And find it a sign of good design to entice different types such that in a lot of cases, the 'skip-able' powers aren't even agreed upon.
Short version, I agree, I don't like the power, but that is far from evidence that it needs fixing.
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I love how you use SoW as an example when it still crashes for 50% of your end bar. In fact, every T9 (in sets that have them) other than Granite (as a toggle with nasty -dam and -rech) and MoG (as a 15 second "defensive build-up, while old MoG crashed up-front) has some sort of nasty end crash, which almost always turns off your toggles (except One with the Shield, which crashes for 50% end like SoW does). Crashes on defensive set T9s are by design, and the devs aren't going to stop doing them any time soon.
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Originally Posted by UberRod
And if you are the tank that is tanking Recluse in an STF, and accidentally hit Unstoppable, you can't get out of there. I don't want to rely on luck in that situation. If I'm busy, you know tanking, I may miss the icon blinking. But this is missing my point.
The point is that you shouldn't have to worry about the consequences of a power crashing and whether or not you will survive having all your toggles drop. Especially if you are a tank or a brute where by nature you will be surrounded by lots of enemies at the time of the crash. That's just bad design and shows why Strength of Will is a much better power. A blaster or defender nuke with a crash? Sure. But a tank? No. |
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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50% of your end bar is better than 100% of your end bar plus 99% of your HP bar, which is what Unstoppable gets.|
Originally Posted by ArcticFahx
I love how you use SoW as an example when it still crashes for 50% of your end bar.
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With WP you can use SoW freely. There's little risk. WP with SoW is arguably better than Invulnerability without Unstoppable, so what's the point of a Tier 9 that people are afraid to use?
It doesn't matter if Unstoppable has bigger resistance numbers and can have more up-time with high +recharge builds if people don't like using it. The advantages over more modern T9's like SoW and OwtS don't outweigh the risk and stigma attached to Unstoppable.
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The other point is that One With the Shield and Strength of Will are nowhere near as potent a 'you can't hurt me, ner ner!' button as Unstoppable, Granite, Elude, Kuji in Retsu and for it's short duration, MoG.|
Originally Posted by ArcticFahx
I love how you use SoW as an example when it still crashes for 50% of your end bar. In fact, every T9 (in sets that have them) other than Granite (as a toggle with nasty -dam and -rech) and MoG (as a 15 second "defensive build-up, while old MoG crashed up-front) has some sort of nasty end crash, which almost always turns off your toggles (except One with the Shield, which crashes for 50% end like SoW does). Crashes on defensive set T9s are by design, and the devs aren't going to stop doing them any time soon.
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Tanker grade Unstoppable is +70% resist to all but psi, according to tomax.cohtitan.com which basically means that you can thumb your nose at anything that's not untyped or Psi.
Tanker grade Strength of Will is 25% S/L, 12.5% F/C/E/N/Tox/Psi. It's more comprehensive coverage, but far lower on the 'Oh, you were trying to hurt me, were you?' scale.
If you personally don't like Unstoppable's drawbacks, don't take it. That doesn't mean that other people don't like it for what it is, or can't use it to their own satisfaction.
But this thread's wandered far enough from the OP, the answer to which is - nope, you flat out cannot perma-Unstoppable.
Warning:
The above post may contain Cynicism, sarcasm and/or pessimism. If you object to the quantities contained, then tough.
The difference is "all toggles drop," and having to rely on luck to use inspirations/etc to avoid that. Heh, maybe we should have screen-spam like Marauder does, but with a "Tanker T9 about to expire!" for everyone else...
If we had a better option for Power Surge and Unstoppable which didn't have us rely on luck and split-second timing to avoid toggle drop during the crash, that I would like. Until then, I'll continue to excercise what I consider to be a lesser option and not use these powers. Eye of the Magus/Oranges/Wedding Band have - so far - been a suitable replacement (option), but I believe having a T9 crash which wouldn't remove toggles would be a better option yet.
How many times has the Rage crash been complained about and revamped, and yet it had a lesser effect than the Power Surge/Unstoppable crashes?
Current primary characters, all on Guardian:
The Amber Fist (Elec/Stone Tanker) | Pixelbeater (Fire/Kin Corr) | The Sequencer (Bots/Traps MM)
Blakkat (Claws/Dark Brute) | Mhogus'thra (Ill/Dark Cont) | Wyldhunt (Beast/Dark MM)
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If you're hitting Unstoppable by accident, you're doing something wrong.
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Originally Posted by UberRod
And if you are the tank that is tanking Recluse in an STF, and accidentally hit Unstoppable, you can't get out of there. I don't want to rely on luck in that situation. If I'm busy, you know tanking, I may miss the icon blinking. But this is missing my point.
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I'm always triggering it when punching in zeros at Wentworths.|
Originally Posted by Smersh
If you're hitting Unstoppable by accident, you're doing something wrong.
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Then it's a good thing that Market PvP can't actually hurt you.
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That's your fault for putting it on your bottom bar if you're worried about accidentally using it.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
I'm always triggering it when punching in zeros at Wentworths.
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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Once upon a time it was possible to perma things like Unstoppable, Light Form, etc. Then the recharge time was increased to make that impossible. Now... just from toying with mids... if you got 225% global recharge and slotted unstoppable with all lvl 50 Recharge IOs AND used the very rare spiritual recharge alpha... it puts unstoppable's recharge time at 210 seconds roughly... leaving about 30 seconds of down time... how much more global recharge would it take to push it to 180? I'm just curious at what point it would be perma-able again via buffs like secondary mutation, empowerment station buffs, speedboost, adrenalin rush, Ageless Incarnate buff (which I believe averages out over its duration to about 22% recharge and is basically perma at the very rare level)
If any of you people who are good with numbers have some insight I'd love to hear it!
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30