Invulnerability, Tier9, and i20

I have always loved Invulnerability powerset. My first 50 was an Invul Brute. However, we all know about Invulnerabilty's tier 9. The "We better win it all in the next 2:59" power. I have actually switched to Willpower as my most ran over the last 2 years, even though in general I still like Invulnerability conceptually better.

Now with my Willpower tank i can hit my tier 9 multiple times in the new trials. Heading on a get the tubes/crates run, pop it. Tanking Marauder, pop it. About to pull an AV in BAF, pop it. (Usually a little orange insp helps in these situations as well...) I have not run an Invulnerability in a very long time, but I can bet that those that do run them in the new content do not pop their tier 9 as casually as I pop mine. I know that if I had an Invulnerability I was taking thru this stuff the only time I could even see doing it is the last 25% of health on Marauder. No other time in any of the trials do I see a good cooldown/crash period in the entire run.

My hope is this will finally get the Devs to rewrite this power into something that is usedul. I personally do not find it useful in the old content. I stopped having it in my Inv builds, then I stopped running Invul because no tier 9 lol. I cannot see how the new content has made the Inv tier 9 more useful, if anything it looks like it might show how bad its problems are. My hope however may never become reality. Any thoughts?

I highly doubt they will make any changes to it. At this point in the game, powerset balance has been looked at plenty of times and very few adjustments will be made. They are focusing on new content, mostly.

Just use the incarnate Barrier as a tier 9 effect, or what is better for an invul - Rebirth (heal plus good +regen).

Inv not that only one with this problem... Power Surge is basicly a copy of Unstoppable with the same draw backs. When it ends.. your have no end and basicly no Hips, detoggled.

Personaly would love if they wanted to cut Unstoppable/Power Surge Res bonus in half, but also half the crash. It would be useful then.

Leaving aside Unstoppable, the interesting thing about the new Incarnate content is that it actually tends to re-emphasize and re-affirm Invuln's strengths as a powerset -- strengths that may previously have been marginalized by IO bonuses.

In other words, a WP Tanker can soft cap to all positions with set bonuses. The WP Tanker will still be weaker against S/L mobs and DEF debuffs, but in an on-paper comparison, WP gets more out of high-end IO investment than Invuln, because you can't quantify the benefit of scaling Invincibility once you've reached 45% DEF. You can quantify the benefit of scaling Rise to the Challenge under those conditions.

But in the new trials, 45% is no longer the soft cap. It's 59%. And oddly enough, an IOed Invuln Tanker who starts at 45% DEF with one foe in range will end at around 60% DEF with 10 foes in range. Further, and perhaps more important, Invuln gets meaningful DEF-debuff resistance (50% on a Tanker). And though it's true that a WP Tanker can take Barrier Destiny to shore up whatever shortcomings in his build, it's also true that Invuln can get WP-like regeneration from Rebirth Destiny.

And since Invuln has a generally easier time reaching the soft cap in the first place, there's a decent chance that the Invuln Tanker will have somewhat better offense, to boot.

TL;DR -- Invuln is very good even without Unstoppable. The only problem with Invuln in the new trials is the same problem that faces all Tankers: the new trials throw curveballs that can situationally invalidate passive mitigation and traditional aggro management (DEF-and-RES-ignoring Turret fire, obscene buffs on Siege's 9CUs and the IDF Battle Orbs, Sequestration, Superjumping Marauder). Needless to say that a better tier 9 wouldn't solve those problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze Nice build

Even if you buff unstoppable bonuses, it wouldn't address the fact that the crash is suicide and still makes the power for the most part worthless. (unless dealing with the crash is the buff you mean).

I have always been sadden that Powersurge is nothing more then unstoppable with a new name and a PBAoE Stun tacked onto it. Other thing odd about Powersurge is the lack of Psi Res bonus. Unlike Inv, Elec has biuld in Psik and a solid number... so why wouldn't the T9 also add to this like it does to everythng else (Includeing Toxic).

Unstoppable was biuld for a time when SOs were the best most could hope for, and your Inv tanker couldn't move with thier Status Protection toggled on.

Its in a serious need of a update to the current game. And in the same Note, Power Surge should be changd to not just be a clone of Unstoppable.

The power could very easyly be renamed "Suicide Stance".

I think Unstoppable would be better if you were left with 3% End at the crash. Enough to keep the toggles up, but not enough to do anything worthwhile. Toss in a -25% to -50% recovery debuff for 5 to 10 seconds and it'll work out well.

Well, I run a Inv / SS Tank and to be honest, I never found myself in a position to even need Unstop. With soft capped defense to all, and 90% resist to S/L and 35% to elements and energies, Unstop is of no use to me, even with the new Incarnate Trials.

Even if the devs buffed it, I doubt I'd take it as a power selection, still wouldn't have a use for it. But I'm sur emany others would like the buff, so I say go for it

Yeah, I have Power Surge on my Elec tanker but very rarely use it. Its a Mule slot for the most part for my Gladiator +3 Global Defense.

2 Place I do use Power Surge here and thier.... Apex Sewers. Mega tons of Toxic which cuts me to ribbons. And once during a BAF trial when I realized I was staying on a x6 patch of Superor Toxic Damage Dot.

So in both cases it only for Toxic Damage. Unstoppable basicly the similar way to Inv. if your up agest tons of Exotic Damge types it might.. and I stress Might come in handy.

I certainly wouldn't break my biuld to pick up ether power however. Its a Take it if you have a extra power.... which is really sad for a Tier 9.

Ever since I started seeing the softer crashes of some of the other T9s (like WP) I've hoped for an Invul upgrade. It's fine for the last few percent of an AV...but if I've survived that long why do I suddenly need it?

It's the power in my Invul builds that I skip which, as was said above, is sad for a T9. Maybe after we get some more Incarnate content the Devs can take another pass at it. Unlike a whole new set it can't be THAT hard to rebalance an existing power.

I wish they'd just give us Force of Nature. Having the epic power based on Unstoppable being more useful than the actual T9 is annoying. To add insult to injury, they did the same thing with Power Surge later on when they introduced the elec epic.

I'd happily trade that extra minute of duration and mez protection if it meant the HP crash would be gone, although ultimately I'd rather see both T9s get the SoW treatment (lower resistances, 1/3 unenhanceable uptime, 50 end crash).

I believe that several of the defensive Tier 9 powers should be tweaked to better suit the realities of the game as it is now. This includes Granite Armor, Power Surge and Unstoppable.

As it stands, a T9 that people are afraid to use is no good to anyone. Unstoppable is very much in this territory.

At the very least, every timed buff like PS or Unstoppable should clearly show how much time is remaining on it (without needing third party software like HeroStats) and allow players to 'force' the crash and end the power early if they choose to.

However, I don't expect any changes to happen. The practical solution is to run HeroStats and seek Incarnate abilities that help negate the crashes and downsides of these powers. Rebirth and Barrier both help with crashes for example.




.

Speaking of Force of Nature, it saddens me that I use Demonic Aura/Arch mage more as a Tier 9.

+50% Def All and +30% Res All (except Psi) for 1 minute with no crash.

Yes please.

Over all if Unstoppable/Power Surge were changed up to 1 minute duraction crashless powers they would see a HUGE increase in use. Obviously what they do would need tweeking as well.

Maybe make those types of Tier9 Also work like a breakfree when activated.
Trade in some of thier Res bonus for +Regeneration bonus (much more useful over all to both Elec and Inv tankers).

Power Surge by name to me implies that it shound lean more towards offensive then defence. Were as Unstoppable would lean towards the Defence side.

So what makes someone unstoppable...

..Can't hurt them
..Can't stop them
..Unrelenting

Translation...

Bonus Res
Debuff resistance (DDR, Slow, Recharge) big Mez Protection
Bonus Regeneration and Recovery Rate


So what makes someone Power Surged...

..Hits harder/ more Powerful
..Increased abilities
..Most power surges are represented in comics as having auras ( Deflection? )

Translation...

Bonus Damage or add a Damage Proc
Increased Recharge, Bonus Regeneration and Recovery, Increase Mez Protection
Defense Boost (Power Field around you)

This would change both powers, and make them not clones of each other. Furthermore I suggest Dropping the Crash to more mangable levels to make them more useful over all. instead of once in a great moon type powers that kill you at the end.

I like Unstoppable as it is, and don't want a SoW clone.

When I play a Tanker these days, it's because I want that character to be as tough as possible. If Invuln got something like SoW instead of Unstoppable, I wouldn't be able to hit it and survive unbelievable amounts of non-S/L damage from a single target.

Apparently, we're going to be facing Anti-Matter in one of the new trials. Based on the Praetorian AVs we've faced so far in Incarnate content, he's probably going to be like he was, but cranked up to 11. That means that your defense will be worthless, leaving just your Energy resistance, and you'll need as much as possible. I'd rather be able to cap my energy resistance for 3 minutes and then crash than go to 50% energy resistance for 2 minutes. I can always trade off aggro with another Tanker before the crash. I think BAF has taught enough people the value of aggro trading.

That being said, I would like it to to give a "time remaining" display and have the option to crash it early.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but since the crash takes 100 Endurance you could get the +end accolades and/or set bonuses and that would leave you with endurance to still remain toggled.

Avoiding the crash is not very difficult. See blinkie...pop a couple lucks, and get ready to pop a blue (if needed) and then Dull Pain.

You can also use the Etheral Shift temp power. Just be sure to give enough time to allow the long cast time of the power.

The crash is 100% endurance. My brute has 124 endurance right now and always does a full crash to 0 even if I'm full.

I don't think anybody complained about deaths due to the crash in this topic, unless I misread. The problem is the resources involved to deal with the crash ; insps, time, attention.