Invulnerability, Tier9, and i20

Thanks for the explanation everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyperstrike Are you sporting any Performance Shifter +End procs?

Not yet, but I will have two when said and done but by that time I won't have Unstoppable anyways.

Here's how I mitigate the Unstoppable crash:

A: Pop unstoppable when needed

B: When unstoppable has 10 seconds remaining (or so) I pop Geas of the Kind Ones, my end discount epic, and Eye of the Magus.

C: Watch my health and endurance disappear.

D: Pop Dull Pain

I also must admit that I have two performance shifters. One in Stamina, and one in Perfect Body. Sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes performance shifter will hit right in the middle of the -end portion of the crash and save my toggles from turning off. I also admit that this method requires a lot of time and badges, but it saves my tank from dying pretty often. It requires timing, but on my build if I pop DP right before unstoppable starts it's up again just before it crashes. It also helps to have green/blue/purple inspirations, but with this method I use unstoppable almost every time it's up without dying overly much. (Of course, this method can't be used immediately after it's been used due to the cooldown of Geas and Eye, but it does work.

My theory on Unstoppable is this: Take it if you can, but if your build is too tight to allow it then don't feel bad about skipping it.

I should have paid a little more attention to the actual topic of the post, which supposedly is the question of how useful the invul Tier 9 is in the incarnate trials. My answer, to that specific question, is not at all. My reasons are many, and I will hereby catalog them.

A: Both in the BAF, and in the Lambda, the fights last far longer than 3 minutes. Yes, you can 'take a knee' somewhere to the side but the fights don't last -that- long.

B: You will probably die without fancy footwork, and even with the fancy footwork you will probably die after 3 minutes. See point A.

C: Hitting the Tier 9 doesn't improve survivability enough to put yourself on deathclock. In the Lambda the AV can and will kill you directly through your Tier 9 without much effort, even if you're using placate grenades.

D: The incarnate destiny +regen Rebirth combined with Dull Pain is literally far better than your T9.


Basically, the truth of the matter is with the new incarnate system your T9 is a waste. Yes, it helps mitigate the crash and might even make it useful again. But at the same time it renders it completely moot. Other sets, such as WP and shield, rely on their T9 just to stay alive sometimes. This is not the case with Invul as it has all the durability of both sets in one. (The same could be said of WP and shield, just with different destiny T4's)

With my T4 +regen destiny and DP going (which is perma btw), I regen around 50 hp/sec at the lowest tier bonus of +regen while still being soft-capped on defense and with 90% resistance to S/L. Yeah there's a psy hole in the set still, but you'll live through it with the regen alone. Even the energy protection isn't bad, with 35% resistance and 40% defense with one enemy nearby.

My $0.02 cents.

P.S. All numbers are probably 1-5% off due to me not having mids in front of me.

QR

I don't have anything with Invulnerability, so I can't comment directly on Unstoppable. I do play several things with a clone of it though: Power Surge (x1), Lightform (x3). I can't say I'm a big fan of the crash, but it's not the WORST tier9 downside out there...even taking into account its situational use, there's a powerset worse off for when it can use its tier9: dark armour. You gotta be dead to even use it, talk about downside! At least you're alive still with Unstoppable (and its clones). MoG used to be worse as well, and it got changed, so maybe there is hope...for you.
Personally, I don't mind the risk the crash poses.

I figure I might as well just hit Barrier Destiny rather than bother with Unstoppable.

What good would a SoW like power do? An Invuln Tanker can already be capped to S/L 100% of the time with Tough. Invuln can handle 99.5% of the game without using a Tier 9, so why do you want SoW when it won't help much for that 0.5% while Unstoppable will?

What good is another 19.25% non-S/L res going to do against Nosferatu's critically hitting Smite, or Anti-Matter, let alone the upcoming Incarnate-trial level Anti-Matter? The guy already makes Defense totally worthless, if he's anything like Marauder with Energy damage, he's going to kill us in 2-3 hits. You might get up to 4-5 if we had a SoW clone. Or we can survive for 3 minutes with Unstoppable.

And to those saying they'd rather use Barrier, how could Barrier possibly substitute for Unstoppable against that kind of threat? The capped resistances last for, what, 10 seconds at most?

Thanks for the explanation of your thoughts on the matter. I'd still prefer Unstoppable, but at least I understand your perspective.

I'd go for your 1% endurance crash, but I think that if we get a balance pass on Invuln things are likely to get worse, not better. I do not believe that it is intended for us to keep our toggles on when Unstoppable crashes, and I think we're lucky not to have a -recovery on it.

That being said, look at the design of Willpower and the design of Invulnerability. If you take Unstoppable out of Invulnerability, what power would you remove from Willpower to get a comparable set? It's not SoW. It's Resurgence. We have something of a SoW equivalent, and it's Dull Pain.

I hate to be "that guy" arguing against you in your thread, but after years of arguing for improvements, I've finally been happy with the state of Invuln ever since Castle's last pass on it, so that's why I've been speaking up here after a long silence in the Tanker forums. I don't want the devs to think everyone hates Unstoppable. I know plenty of people that do. I also know plenty that like it more than SoW, though.