Invulnerability, Tier9, and i20

If end didn't crash to zero and my toggles still stayed up, then I might respec back in to the power because I could be fairly certain I'd be alive after the crash.

Would be nice if it had a counter so you knew when it was going to crash, or some sort of audio cue.

But as it is now, I respec'd out of Unstoppable and haven't looked back. Barrier is plenty good for any need.

You don't like the blinking clue?

Who are you addressing?

For me, no. There's nothing the power can do for three minutes that would justify the crash.



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I don't think I'd like the repel aura, but bowling for baddies was fun when my Kin had Repel. Can it make me immune to -jump? That would be nifty.

Among how many buff buttons? And how many of them are blinking at a given moment? While I'm concentrating on keeping said mob occupied, trying to ask a teammate to step up so I can get back before the crash, and beating face?

Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

OK? It still has a warning/clue/counter that it is about to crash. We are all different it is easier for some of us to notice and harder for others...

It was mostly humor I am sure UberRod has noticed this before and does not think it sufficient.

Well, by the time I notice the blinking cue, I'm never sure how much time I have left.

Most of the time I don't notice the blinking cue at all.

Thanks, the feeling is mutual.

You're right, there is a sign of that. But I don't think we're going to get it for free on Unstoppable, and I'd rather not pay the price to get it. If I'm wrong about that, then I'd love to see a 99% endurance drop instead of a 100% drop.

That's actually what I'm trying to avoid, though I can see how my wording sounds like the opposite. This whole thread started by comparing Unstoppable to SoW, and I'm saying that if you look at the set as a whole, and remove Unstoppable, you wouldn't remove SoW to make a comparable set out of Willpower, so I don't think it's appropriate to think that we can trade Unstoppable for something like SoW. It would make the average performance of the Invulnerability set higher than I think is intended, because SoW is less situational than Unstoppable, and I think Unstoppable is supposed to be very situational, not something you use as often as SoW.

I agree with your description of the trap that you get in when you compare powers, so I'm trying to compare the entire set in the absence of those powers, and I'm saying "removing SoW from Willpower has a closer effect on the set as a whole to removing Dull Pain from Invulnerability, not Unstoppable, and removing Unstoppable from Invulnerability has a closer effect on the set as a whole to removing Resurgence from Willpower, not SoW". I believe removing Unstoppable from Invulnerability, just like the proponents of a SoW replacement, has a minimal impact on its overall performance. I also believe that adding a SoW equivalent, just like the proponents of this, would increase the set's overall performance.

The difference in opinion here is that I think that this increase in overall performance would be unbalancingly large, while at the same time removing that edge-case where you can survive something that pumps out insane Energy/Negative/Fire/Cold along with either high def debuffs, high +tohit, or extra auto-hit damage, which only has a small impact on overall performance due to how situational it is. There are only a couple of things in the game like this currently, but it sounds like we're about to get another one, one nastier than we've ever seen, and we're probably going to have to face it over, and over, and over again to get whatever new Incarnate slots come out.

Someone may be able to prove me wrong mathematically (and I'd be interested to see it), but my experience with the two sets tells me that Invulnerability and Willpower are currently close enough to each other, performance-wise, that neither needs a boost relative to the other one. This obviously varies depending upon what you are facing-- Cimerorans are no threat to my Invuln Tanker, but can take down a WP Tanker while SoW is recharging, while WP Tankers perform much better against groups with lots of non-S/L damage, especially Psi. If you added a SoW like power to Invuln, I believe that it would hold every advantage over WP but Psi in the vast majority of the content.

That last bit was actually aimed at everyone advocating for a change. I hate it when a bunch of people agree that they'd prefer some change and one guy comes in and fights to the death against it just to defend the status quo no matter what it is. I just wanted to be clear that I'm not the type that defends the status quo regardless of logical arguments against it. I campaigned long and hard along with several others to get Invuln to its current state, but now I'm happy with it (short of a radical redesign that made it a completely Res, status/debuff-res, and +MaxHp based set, but that's never going to happen).

That was my guess... I suppose they could add a timer that you could click and monitor like defense and resistance....

Dull Pain. 3500 HP + any other bag of tricks (Accolade/Destiny/Inspirations) you have is enough cushion vs. Psi damage (which you can also build against).


I was talking about my WP Brute because my WP brute is in no way as tough as an Invuln tanker. Rather than be rude, I'll let you draw your own conclusion.


And the only time he can punch through anything is with Nova Fist - if you're getting caught in Nova fist, that's your fault. Not the fault of your powerset.


These sound like play issues, not powerset issues.

See above for being killed through your T9. Marauder telegraphs Nova Fist so far in advance that you should never get caught in it.


Will it ruin your day?

Do you not carry inspirations? Do you not have capped HP?




I think Rebirth is the right choice, with a great case made for Barrier if you want a mini-god mode that can turn the tide of an entire battle.

But with Rebirth & DP - You should not be having all these issues you are claiming.

My point, since you seemed to miss it completely is that I'm tanking Marauder with less HP (-1000 less), less SM/L Resistances before self-buffing (60% vs 90%) and only a bit more regen (approx 70-80 HP/S vs. what I assume would be around 50 hp/s for an Invuln tanker with capped HP + Rebirth) vs. Marauder since it is an AV fight that doesn't see many adds in 8ft range for RttC.

My point is that your Invuln tanker should never die in this fight unless you or your league does something completely silly.





Barrier is more than its 5% by the way.

5% is the icing, its not something you build around.

Barrier, is up front auto-softcapped Def and Resistance to all damage types and positions for everyone in a 30-60 foot radius (depending on tier and power).

When a battle is going south, that will be overall a better way to save your league imo than Rebirth - a Squishy with high regen is still a squishy - an unhittable, highly resistant squishy on the other hand gets 10 full seconds to go into recovery mode to keep themselves alive - and an additional 20s to be get back into the thick of things before the buff scales down to the weaker but useful back end buff.

Regen, even in massive quantity, only provides a single mitigation aspect which is linear - it wont control high spike damage vs. soft targets.

Barrier on the other hand provides two layers of mitigation which support each other.





I quoted this because I agree with a lot of it.




I don't disagree.


I think SoW & OWTS are more usable, but the thread reads as a lot of calls for buffs and lacked the counterpoint on just how much more ridiculously stronger Unstoppable is vs. SoW or OWTS.