City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Internet Troll blames CoH closure on PS arrogance to NCSoft

Arcanaville

By Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2012-10-11 01:39 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwistedDM View Post
While funny (and accurate) it's still an odd video, because Stanley Woo has only ever moderated the Bioware Social forums and has absolutely nothing at all to do with TOR.
Yeah... I haven't been able to figure out how the rumor eventually spread (and stuck) that Stanley Woo ever served on the Tortanic, but yes, it's funny nevertheless.

 

Posted

I think it might have been because when a lot of the Bioware Austin (TOR) staff got laid off in the usual re-shuffle that happens after an MMOs release, Bioware Edmonton also had a minor reshuffle and Stanley Woo was laid off as a paid moderator. People did the usual 2+2=22 thing and came to the conclusion Stanley was fired because TOR was apparently a disaster and Bioware needed to drastically cut staff to minimise its losses. Also, IIRC he banned someone for bringing up TOR in a negative way on the ME3 forums as well.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyver View Post
So NCsoft is punishing us because we aren't raging misogynists?


Lesson learned.
No, just an example of radical cultural differences. Or it might just have been him.

Except it wasn't that unusual according to our product's marketing/training point person. She told us that when she still gave sales demos in the Asian region, she would have to bring a male underling along because while the customer would accept a presentation from a woman, they would only ask questions to and listen to answers from a man. They assume a woman is just a pretty face that's only able to operate a scripted PowerPoint presentation and actually not knowledgeable about enough about the product to answer questions.

Again this was in the mid to late 90s, 15 odd years ago. Maybe the general culture in a gaming company in Korea today is different.

Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
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Tempus unum hominem manet

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starsman View Post
?
I meant about TOR forums deleting a thread that linked to CoH forums.
Ya know I hadn't even thought of that, and you're probably right about that being what got the thread nuked. I retract my previous statement that it got nuked because the poster I "quoted" was probably a BW employee.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Xmas View Post
No, just an example of radical cultural differences. Or it might just have been him.

Except it wasn't that unusual according to our product's marketing/training point person. She told us that when she still gave sales demos in the Asian region, she would have to bring a male underling along because while the customer would accept a presentation from a woman, they would only ask questions to and listen to answers from a man. They assume a woman is just a pretty face that's only able to operate a scripted PowerPoint presentation and actually not knowledgeable about enough about the product to answer questions.

Again this was in the mid to late 90s, 15 odd years ago. Maybe the general culture in a gaming company in Korea today is different.

Honestly, it's no different in America today. The gaming industry is still thought of and treated as a boys club. Just go read the #1ReasonWhy on twitter to see.

The fact that an entertainment industry in a first world country treats half of its population in the same manner as a backwards out of date sexist culture is laughable.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwistedDM View Post
I don't believe s/he is actually employed by Bioware, (it's a favourite tactic on the SWTOR forums to try and discredit positive posters by accusing them of being employed by Bioware as paid shills) just a raging fanboy/girl who refuses to acknowledge any flaws and will try to twist even the most ridiculous situations so they can be viewed in a positive light, even going so far (as demonstrated here) to completely make stuff up.

And the thread was most probably deleted because after that point, I can pretty much guarantee it devolved in to an all-out flame war. Common occurrence over on SWTOR, I'm afraid. To quote from the movies, "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious."
Thank goodness none of that ever happened on the CoH forums!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyver View Post
Honestly, it's no different in America today. The gaming industry is still thought of and treated as a boys club. Just go read the #1ReasonWhy on twitter to see.

The fact that an entertainment industry in a first world country treats half of its population in the same manner as a backwards out of date sexist culture is laughable.
To be fair, I don't think the majority female populous helped much with that. Until Facebook, Farmville, and mobile gaming phones, playing video games was the quickest way for a guy to get himself on the "Do not date, EVER" list.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter View Post
To be fair, I don't think the majority female populous helped much with that. Until Facebook, Farmville, and mobile gaming phones, playing video games was the quickest way for a guy to get himself on the "Do not date, EVER" list.
Yes, because the fact that someone couldn't get a date for the prom really justifies

Quote:
I've had guys turn to the men I hired to help at the booth for information on the game I wrote. That has my name on the cover.
oh and this is my favorite

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyver View Post
Yes, because the fact that someone couldn't get a date for the prom really justifies



oh and this is my favorite
I- what- they couldn't-

...

dammitsomuch

Blood Widow Ricki * Tide Shifter * T-34 * Opposite Reaction * Shaolin Midnight * ChernobylCheerleader

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Ya know I hadn't even thought of that, and you're probably right about that being what got the thread nuked. I retract my previous statement that it got nuked because the poster I "quoted" was probably a BW employee.
I know the person who made that thread. Actually we met in this game and was in the same supergroup before he left. That's how I know he got infracted. And the reason for the infraction was not linking another forum. But being rude to another poster when all he did was link this thread here without being rude to that poster. I asked for forward of the infraction so I can post it here.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyver View Post
Yes, because the fact that someone couldn't get a date for the prom really justifies
It's much more complex than that. For quite a few decades most females (not all) saw gaming almost as a disease or a symptom that something was wrong with said individual.

This resulted in most gaming communities developing nearly completely female-free.

It is not uncommon for human groups to develop considerably horrible behaviors against absent groups. It takes a special individual to maintain respect for absent parties.

So after decades we ended with males feeling way too comfortable making horrendously sexist and degrading comments while in these circles. Suddenly women start showing up in the circles but still as a minority and you get them constantly bumping into people that just don't get it.

Note: this is not a justification; this is not saying they are right, or misunderstood. Males in the gaming field NEED to change, but the reason things got this bad is precisely because female avoidance of the gaming culture forced the development of a culture with no women in it.

Mind you, the rejection, eye rolls, and insults male gamers got from females while growing didn't help the sympathy much either. (I was lucky to grow in a much friendly environment than that.)

But as I mention, this is not exclusive to gaming. It's an issue in gaming due to its growth and economic implications, but there are many other groups with similar issues.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter View Post
Yeah I know.

I guess you're not well-versed in the lore of the Tortanic tragedy. Allow me to enlighten you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvMxyDlMJ58
Ah, nothing like linking a blatantly racist video to make a point.

Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)

 

Posted

Got the infraction message:


"You have received an infraction at STAR WARS: The Old Republic.

Reason: Rules Violation
-------
Your post was recently removed for violating the Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ community Rules of Conduct. After careful review of the posted material, we are placing an infraction on your account for this violation.

Please be respectful towards other community members. Making posts with the intent to call out and harass other forum members is not tolerated.

Please understand that our goal is to create a safe, friendly environment for our online community. Further violations of the rules can lead to temporary or permanent removal of your posting privileges. At certain levels of infraction points, your posting privileges are temporarily suspended. If you reach 15 total infraction points, your posting privileges will be permanently suspended. We strongly encourage you to take a few moments and review the Rules of Conduct (http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/rulesofconduct/) you agreed to when creating your account to avoid future violations.

Should you have any questions about this message or any other issues that require assistance, please contact us at Communitysupport@swtor.com.
-------

This infraction is worth 3 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

Original Post:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...70#post5494770

---Quote---
On the forum about what the TOR post speaks of:

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=298707
---End Quote---
All the best,
STAR WARS: The Old Republic
***************

Again, please do not reply to this email. You must go to the following page to reply to this private message:
http://www.swtor.com/community/private.php

All the best,
STAR WARS: The Old Republic"

So it wasn't taken down because it linked here as the reason. Plus TOR forums is full of links to other game forums.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starsman View Post
It's much more complex than that. For quite a few decades most females (not all) saw gaming almost as a disease or a symptom that something was wrong with said individual.

This resulted in most gaming communities developing nearly completely female-free.

It is not uncommon for human groups to develop considerably horrible behaviors against absent groups. It takes a special individual to maintain respect for absent parties.

So after decades we ended with males feeling way too comfortable making horrendously sexist and degrading comments while in these circles. Suddenly women start showing up in the circles but still as a minority and you get them constantly bumping into people that just don't get it.

Note: this is not a justification; this is not saying they are right, or misunderstood. Males in the gaming field NEED to change, but the reason things got this bad is precisely because female avoidance of the gaming culture forced the development of a culture with no women in it.

Mind you, the rejection, eye rolls, and insults male gamers got from females while growing didn't help the sympathy much either. (I was lucky to grow in a much friendly environment than that.)

But as I mention, this is not exclusive to gaming. It's an issue in gaming due to its growth and economic implications, but there are many other groups with similar issues.
Actually, the misogyny among men in the gaming community played a fairly significant role in women not being a part of the gaming community. Why join a hobby where you're going to be abused just for who you are? Why go into stores where you'll be ignored or dismissed as obviously in the wrong place? Having people talk down to you? Being told you can't play a female character because women can't be adventurers? Having people try to roleplay gangrapes to show you your proper place? It wasn't just women being disdainful of gamers that kept women out of the gaming community in significant numbers.

I've been gaming since the early 80s and I have to say that trying to make women responsible for the ridiculous levels of misogyny in gaming communities constitutes either an extreme level of denial or simply another layer of misogyny.

Also, if those guys who were upset about women rolling eyes at them didn't think they were entitled to women, they probably wouldn't be quite so put out when some women aren't automatically interested in them. Most of the gamer guys I've known haven't had much difficulty establishing relationships and marriages.

Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormstrike View Post
So it wasn't taken down because it linked here as the reason. Plus TOR forums is full of links to other game forums.
Well, if that is a rule in their forums and they didn’t just make it up, then you did break it.

Better question is if they would have ignored the rule for other posters, but that's something you can’t assume "yes" to, you must see it be ignored for it to be real concern.

 

Posted

I saw that post on the TOR forums. I thought of it as just another theory amongst many.

I still think it's because "company refocusing" means "we want our games to be profitable in korea, NA, EU, China, Japan, and if it isn't, we'd rather not support it"

BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaStrega View Post
I've been gaming since the early 80s and I have to say that trying to make women responsible for the ridiculous levels of misogyny in gaming communities constitutes either an extreme level of denial or simply another layer of misogyny.
I am not blaming anyone specifically, just saying that absence itself can open the doors to groups making these poor taste jokes.

I also got to say, it's not misogyny. It's ignorance. LOTS of it. Gamers saying this kind of stuff dont even realize what they are saying is bad. The R word also tends to be used queally against male and female without the notion that it tends to mean a lot more for women than it does for men. Again: it's ignorance. Due to the absence of women in their group, they never had the chance to learn what bothers them, and by this point in their lives it's basically hard-coded in them.

Bad analogy time:

If you separate puppy dogs too early, they won't fight together. If they don't fight together, they don't bite eachthother. If they don't bite eachother they never get to learn how much biting is too much biting.

Edit to add:
This is not a gamer's exclusive btw. A LOT of men, in most positions, classes, careers and groups tend to be EXTREMELY sexist when they are alone. They just happened to have developed the common sense to shut it when women are around. (I also am aware of many women doing the same the other way around.) That was the point of my analogy.

Quote:
Also, if those guys who were upset about women rolling eyes at them didn't think they were entitled to women, they probably wouldn't be quite so put out when some women aren't automatically interested in them.
This is yet another extremist statement from the other far side of the room. I was not talking about dates or anything like it. I don't care if you are a man or a woman, if we are forced to share the same small class room environment and common grounds in a small school; I think I rather not have everyone roll their eyes and say thing like "there comes that Nintendo nerd." It's not about being entitled to a woman, it’s about being entitled to common courtesy.

Quote:
Most of the gamer guys I've known haven't had much difficulty establishing relationships and marriages.
Times have changed. A lot. But I doubt any gamer that actually developed the aggressive misogyny personality you describe would have had any easy time establishing a relationship or marriage, though. Hard to judge everyone under the same umbrella.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starsman View Post
Well, if that is a rule in their forums and they didn’t just make it up, then you did break it.

Better question is if they would have ignored the rule for other posters, but that's something you can’t assume "yes" to, you must see it be ignored for it to be real concern.
I said I know the person number 1.

And number 2, look at the Andryah's posting history. She is rude to people time and time again without any posts of her going away. She's a known troll over there.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormstrike View Post
I said I know the person number 1.

And number 2, look at the Andryah's posting history. She is rude to people time and time again without any posts of her going away. She's a known troll over there.
But you started a thread with the sole goal of doing that.

How many times has this troll actually started threds just to burn a specific poster? Trolls tend to be good at playing by the rules yet keep up the trolling. That's what is so annoying about them.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starsman View Post
But you started a thread with the sole goal of doing that.

How many times has this troll actually started threds just to burn a specific poster? Trolls tend to be good at playing by the rules yet keep up the trolling. That's what is so annoying about them.
I am NOT the person who started the thread. This is my THIRD time saying that. I KNOW who did and he forwarded the infraction so I could post it here. Can you not read?

Forbin started the thread here. I know who started the thread there. Yet you're here still trying to convince yourself I started the thread. Nice troll attempt.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormstrike View Post
I am NOT the person who started the thread. This is my THIRD time saying that. I KNOW who did and he forwarded the infraction so I could post it here. Can you not read?

Forbin started the thread here. I know who started the thread there. Yet you're here still trying to convince yourself I started the thread. Nice troll attempt.
Well, sorry for the misunderstanding I thought the infraction message was yours for starting the thread, I did miss the one message you explained a bit more clearly (for me, the last one was a bit confusing.)

However... you can clarify this without the "troll attempt" overreaction.

 

Posted

Original Post:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...70#post5494770

---Quote---
On the forum about what the TOR post speaks of:

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=298707
---End Quote---

The above is the important part. And from that, they gave an infraction to Jacen_Starsolo over there about being mean and rude to Andryah. I asked for the infraction to be forwarded to post here so people will see it had nothing to do with linking CoX forums. So I'm wondering how that rude rule applies to this specific post and what he put. Should TOR mods ask CoX mods what this threads OP name is so they can ban him there? Rude is not just a link to this thread. Rude would be putting some more comments like "Andryah is an a-clown that is full of ignorance and her ignorance knows no bounds."

The title of the thread some something like "TOR post gives laughter to others" or something like that. Clowns give laughter. Comedians give laughter. So it can mean many things.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starsman View Post
Well, sorry for the misunderstanding I thought the infraction message was yours for starting the thread, I did miss the one message you explained a bit more clearly (for me, the last one was a bit confusing.)

However... you can clarify this without the "troll attempt" overreaction.
When I said "I know the person number 1" and the first thing you say back is "but you started a thread" even after an earlier post saying I know the person and asked for a forward, it did come across like you were just attempting to troll by keep accusing me over and over. Sorry.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyver View Post
oh and this is my favorite
..............
Just reading that makes me feel like I should be apologizing for being a man.

_________
@Inquisitor

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by BellaStrega View Post
Ah, nothing like linking a blatantly racist video to make a point.
Gawd, even the Volus (Voli?) play the race card these days?