Keep Your Eyes on Nexon (Not NCsoft)
By
Evil_Legacy,
Posted on: 2012-10-25 11:34 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
interesting.|
Originally Posted by Rubberlad
I'm starting to realize that the decision to pull the plug on City of Heroes may *not* have been NCsoft's call alone after all... I advise folks to keep an eye on their majority investor, Nexon, for the next few weeks.
June 8, 2012: http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...biggest-holder October 5, 2012: http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaud...ure-of-gaming/ October 19, 2012: http://www.heraldonline.com/2012/10/...d-quarter.html |
But holy crap, 1.3 billion player registrations?! that is a lot of people and or registrations.
-Female Player-
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
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Not really, they got like a couple dozen games all together, including desktop, web, Facebook and mobile games (25 in total). And that's just here in NA. They have 50 in Korea.|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
interesting.
But holy crap, 1.3 billion player registrations?! that is a lot of people and or registrations. |
An interesting note, Nexon runs Eve Online in Japan.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
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The first link is something that's been talked about repeatedly, including the notion that they are the secret puppetmasters of NCSoft. As pointed out it was the CEO's own stock, 60% of his personal holdings, that was sold to Nexon.|
Originally Posted by Rubberlad
I'm starting to realize that the decision to pull the plug on City of Heroes may *not* have been NCsoft's call alone after all... I advise folks to keep an eye on their majority investor, Nexon, for the next few weeks.
June 8, 2012: http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...biggest-holder October 5, 2012: http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaud...ure-of-gaming/ October 19, 2012: http://www.heraldonline.com/2012/10/...d-quarter.html |
The last link is the standard notice about Q3 results with the standard investors conference call. The NCSoft stock purchase was brought up in the Q2 conference call with nothing of note being said. You can read the transcript here (pdf).
The middle link is interesting but doesn't really say anything. It's more of an informational piece about a company that has a unique income model yet still has annual sales (around $1 billion) rivaling the Blizzard division of Activision. F2P plus microtransactions isn't a well understood income model to US investors and is looked at rather suspiciously as a reliable source of revenue (see Zynga). Plus the article also focus on their expansion into NA as an untapped market, they only did $77 million in 2011 in NA. Investors like companies going into new untapped regions since that tends to lead to explosive growth in revenues which leads to a surge in the stock price.
I would be surprised if there is anything "superhero" related being talked about or mentioned in the conference call, which is the point I think you are trying to make, because of the mention of Marvel Heroes (by the questioner talking about F2P games already, or soon will be, here in NA) in the Forbes piece.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Ok... Ok...
Ok.
So, now my task is to also Go. Hunt. Find Nexon Products. And then boycott them as well.
I... don't know why I didn't make that connection before, but since they bought in June, and the announcement was in August, then that makes them liable for the decision and poor execution as well.
So. There we go. Bye Nexon. Whatever you're pushin', I'm not buyin'.
Mike
/Of course, as the majority stock holder, if Nexon somehow were to reverse the closure, I'd be more likely to reverse my boycott decision, naturally.
August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012
OK, I'll say it one more time. Nexon is the largest shareholder, but NOT a majority shareholder. Owning 15% of a company does not give you control.
_________
@Inquisitor
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Fair enough. So I'm a little off and/or confuzzled about their control. They still are a part of the decision process. 15% is NOT ignorable, though...|
Originally Posted by Mr_Morbid
OK, I'll say it one more time. Nexon is the largest shareholder, but NOT a majority shareholder. Owning 15% of a company does not give you control.
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The point is, though the same. Association with a bad company means you 'like' that bad company, and that means you are not going to enjoy my money being sent to you because I will simply not buy your products.
I suggest Nexon divest. And anyone else that has stock. I doubt I'll be heard or followed in this clever idea of mine. That's fine. I don't really care if you (a hypothetical 'you', as in 'that guy over there', not any specific one... I love cya... ) like supporting a company who would generate bad publicity and make really weird decisions, and worse of all, just kick everyone out without any warning whatsoever, when the studio/game wasn't hurting financially and was doing ok, and was regarded well in the industry.
Yep. Makes sense to stick with that company. /em thumbsup
So yeah. I'm doing it because I'm spiteful, I guess. I simply dislike NCSoft for doing it the way it was done. If that makes me bad... well... So be it. I'm bad. I'm bad. Shamon. (Really really bad!)
Mike
/Why do I feel like that gif that the guy is pounding on the keyboard and gets angrier and angrier until he finally pounds his hands, arms, and then finally his head, to a bloody pulp and then collapses in a lifeless heap at his computer?
//Hm. I should do something else, methinks. I know. Co* tomorrow. Yeah, that'll help.
///And for that, I *am* thankful for NCSoft allowing me to do so. But it really doesn't change things.
////I expect I might have a sudden account inaccessibility sooner than Nov 30... Le sigh, I suppose I would have brought it upon myself, yeah?
August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012
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They certainly have influence. But the theory that Nexon management forced NCSoft to axe CoH (putting NCSoft execs in the position of unwilling underlings) has been brought up before on these forums, and it just doesn't hold water.
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Originally Posted by houtex
Fair enough. So I'm a little off and/or confuzzled about their control. They still are a part of the decision process. 15% is NOT ignorable, though...
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_________
@Inquisitor
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Originally Posted by Mr_Morbid
OK, I'll say it one more time. Nexon is the largest shareholder, but NOT a majority shareholder. Owning 15% of a company does not give you control.
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The article says they are the biggest shareholder of NCSoft. Yes, Its 15% but that means no one else owns more than 15%. The article says "Nexon Co. (3659), a Tokyo-based maker of online games, bought a 804.5 billion won ($685 million) stake in NCSoft Corp. (036570) to become the South Korean companys biggest shareholder."
Kinda seems a little sad that the company itself wouldn't own more than 15% if its own stock. I wonder how accurate it is.
Bright and Shiny,
American Wonder
this has been speculated for a long time. It's not exactly new news
Thelonious Monk
NCSoft has 9% of their stock still in reserve. Their CEO owns 10%, Korea National Pension owns 9%, foreign investors 28%, individuals 13% and domestic institutional investors 15%. Before the sale to Nexon, NCSoft's CEO owned 25%. This is from NCSoft's August Investor Relations briefing packet.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
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Not really. According to a report major investors in Apple owned 71.7% of Apple stock.|
Originally Posted by Stars_and_Stripe
The article says they are the biggest shareholder of NCSoft. Yes, Its 15% but that means no one else owns more than 15%. The article says "Nexon Co. (3659), a Tokyo-based maker of online games, bought a 804.5 billion won ($685 million) stake in NCSoft Corp. (036570) to become the South Korean companys biggest shareholder."
Kinda seems a little sad that the company itself wouldn't own more than 15% if its own stock. I wonder how accurate it is. |
According to yahoo finance : Fidelity Management and Research are the largest shareholder with 5.01%
Yes, i know I am using Apple as the example, but it isn't really all that strange for the *majority* of shares to be owned by outsiders to the company. I mean, they (as in outsiders) are the ones who invested money IN the company when it went public.
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Technically speaking a company can never own ANY of itself. Treasury stock (the shares that a company holds of itself) does not receive dividends and has no voting power.
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Originally Posted by Stars_and_Stripe
Kinda seems a little sad that the company itself wouldn't own more than 15% if its own stock. I wonder how accurate it is.
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_________
@Inquisitor
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Sorry, but I have too much time and effort invested in Combat Arms (my 2nd most played game behind CoX) to just toss them aside over rumor and speculation.
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Originally Posted by houtex
Ok... Ok...
Ok. So, now my task is to also Go. Hunt. Find Nexon Products. And then boycott them as well. I... don't know why I didn't make that connection before, but since they bought in June, and the announcement was in August, then that makes them liable for the decision and poor execution as well. So. There we go. Bye Nexon. Whatever you're pushin', I'm not buyin'. Mike /Of course, as the majority stock holder, if Nexon somehow were to reverse the closure, I'd be more likely to reverse my boycott decision, naturally. |
Devs would post more if they could say "hi!" without people whining because they wanted them to say "hello".
-Nethergoat
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yeah if population is even among those 75 games NA and US that is average of about 20 million registrations a game. How many did this game have? About one million or so total overall? Of course some of those games dont have anywhere near 20 million registered people, meaning a few had more than 20million go through. I would imagine the facebook ones pushing that average number up though and the Korean games.
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Not really, they got like a couple dozen games all together, including desktop, web, Facebook and mobile games (25 in total). And that's just here in NA. They have 50 in Korea.
An interesting note, Nexon runs Eve Online in Japan. |
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
My point being they don't just have a few large games but many, many games to spread 1.3 billion accounts across. I imagine there are players with accounts across a number of games in their region. They may even have multiple accounts within the same game, either the multibox or simply they forgot their previous account login info.
I played MapleStory for a short time a few years ago. I don't remember my account info anymore. The biggest problem I had was if the patcher hiccuped, you were force to download the entire game all over again. They also had an anti-cheat program that would co-install and run while playing. As for gameplay it was just do damn grindy for me and required teaming to complete certain quests.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Hearing about the power and numbers being thrown back and forth between Korean entities make me feel better about sending my former COH money to Valve.
@Kyuu
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Still it remains the game that invented F2P and shows that graphics aint everything to hit a massive group of players (and keep em busy). And unlike NCsoft, they are still very active on the European market (though some of their games are published by locals).
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
I played MapleStory for a short time a few years ago. I don't remember my account info anymore. The biggest problem I had was if the patcher hiccuped, you were force to download the entire game all over again. They also had an anti-cheat program that would co-install and run while playing. As for gameplay it was just do damn grindy for me and required teaming to complete certain quests.
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50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
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yeah I see the point. |
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
My point being they don't just have a few large games but many, many games to spread 1.3 billion accounts across. I imagine there are players with accounts across a number of games in their region. They may even have multiple accounts within the same game, either the multibox or simply they forgot their previous account login info.
I played MapleStory for a short time a few years ago. I don't remember my account info anymore. The biggest problem I had was if the patcher hiccuped, you were force to download the entire game all over again. They also had an anti-cheat program that would co-install and run while playing. As for gameplay it was just do damn grindy for me and required teaming to complete certain quests. |
When people have numerous accounts, sometimes it's hard to get an actual guage on the actual number of actual people that play. Some people here have what? 2 up to 4 accounts? And maybe more since the f2p? I guess as close as we could get is registration number.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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This has been my theory. Not specifically to kill CoH, but rather a call along the lines of:|
Originally Posted by Rubberlad
I'm starting to realize that the decision to pull the plug on City of Heroes may *not* have been NCsoft's call alone after all... I advise folks to keep an eye on their majority investor, Nexon, for the next few weeks.
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"Hi, remember us? Your biggest shareholder, the ones who bought your stock based on how you said it was going. Saw the latest quarterly reports, and not happy, not happy at all. You're bleeding money, and that's not what your shareholders want.
You need to show you're serious about changing course. Do something significant. No, I'm not going to say what, for now you're still in charge. Give us and the other shareholders we've spoken to who are equally unhappy a reason to believe that you're going to focus your efforts on where the money is.
No, this is not a demand. This is a friendly discussion. If it was a demand, there would be talk about proxy fights, and possibly lawsuits about representations made by your company and you personally. It's just a friendly talk. I'm sure you'll do the right thing."
By the numbers, CoH was the small fish. Lowest income for the game (globally, not just US numbers), no significant growth over time. So a need to "show they're serious" turning into "shut something down", CoH was the reasonable choice if they felt they had to close a game.
That said, there is a pony in this pile of manure. NCSoft management may not be willing to talk to anyone, may either have tax ideas about the value of leaving it on the shelf or saving face by someone else make a success of it. But making the case to Nexon that NCSoft is leaving money on the table could provide leverage.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
Well they bought the stock from the CEO at the beginning of June, around three weeks before the end of the quarter that reported the loss. If they felt deceived, I would blame the CEO who sold them the stock.
I think it's more along the lines of when Microsoft propped up Apple when Jobs came back.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Honestly, trying to influence/boycott/bring down NCSoft/Nexon for what happened with CoH is about the equivalent of what happened with Galaxies and the NGE.
Nothing.
Unsurprisingly, Sony wasn't impacted by people leaving Galaxies in numbers and the game continued for several years until it was shut down.
You can personally choose to boycott a company's product, but it's entirely unrealistic to think you or any player movement of under a million people (at least) will remotely garner their attention. The G20 summits go ahead every year and affect financial policy around the world, replete with equally worldwide protests.
I don't mean to downplay a decision to dislike a corporation, but the reality such actions rarely if ever affect the machine.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
You must work for NCSoft 
(kidding)
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Originally Posted by SuperOz
Honestly, trying to influence/boycott/bring down NCSoft/Nexon for what happened with CoH is about the equivalent of what happened with Galaxies and the NGE.
Nothing. Unsurprisingly, Sony wasn't impacted by people leaving Galaxies in numbers and the game continued for several years until it was shut down. You can personally choose to boycott a company's product, but it's entirely unrealistic to think you or any player movement of under a million people (at least) will remotely garner their attention. The G20 summits go ahead every year and affect financial policy around the world, replete with equally worldwide protests. I don't mean to downplay a decision to dislike a corporation, but the reality such actions rarely if ever affect the machine. S. |
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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NCSOFT Employeee!!! REPENT!!!|
Originally Posted by SuperOz
Honestly, trying to influence/boycott/bring down NCSoft/Nexon for what happened with CoH is about the equivalent of what happened with Galaxies and the NGE.
Nothing. Unsurprisingly, Sony wasn't impacted by people leaving Galaxies in numbers and the game continued for several years until it was shut down. You can personally choose to boycott a company's product, but it's entirely unrealistic to think you or any player movement of under a million people (at least) will remotely garner their attention. The G20 summits go ahead every year and affect financial policy around the world, replete with equally worldwide protests. I don't mean to downplay a decision to dislike a corporation, but the reality such actions rarely if ever affect the machine. S. |
j/k
This is true.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
Hehe. Should've expected that.
There are worse things in this world (such as Sandy smashing the east coast there) to concern ourselves with rather than the shutdown of this game. I do wish sometimes people had the passion for the real world stuff as much as they did their leisure time activities.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
I'm starting to realize that the decision to pull the plug on City of Heroes may *not* have been NCsoft's call alone after all... I advise folks to keep an eye on their majority investor, Nexon, for the next few weeks.
June 8, 2012: http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...biggest-holder
October 5, 2012: http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngaud...ure-of-gaming/
October 19, 2012: http://www.heraldonline.com/2012/10/...d-quarter.html