Response from NCsoft Support (About Refunds)
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2012-09-09 06:25 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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yeah, what he said.|
Originally Posted by Vice_Virtuoso
To anyone looking to file suit: Disputing the charges with your credit card provider/Paypal will be much easier, cheaper, and more likely to work than going to court over it.
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Might work, might not work, but neither outcome will cost you a dime.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Unfortunately after it's fully cleared that isn't always possible. There is a time limit for such things, and digital stuff is even harder. |
Originally Posted by Vice_Virtuoso
Dispute the charges with your credit card company or Paypal.
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But yeah, those that paid far in advance should get their money back, not credit in other NCSoft games, that's complete and utter bulls**t.
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I work for a company that creates custom products for clients. You have up to 1 year to try for a chargeback. It will also be easier in situations where 30-120 days is shorter than the amount of time it would take to recieve your goods or services.
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Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
If you are doing this, make sure that the transaction isnt all that old either... depending on the card company that you are with, you *should* have between 30 and 120 days to dispute a transaction (i believe that this is due to how often statements are sent out etc etc).
If any of the transactions are past the limit according to the card scheme you are with (Visa, Mastercard, Diners Club, AMEX) then you can still try for a chargeback... but the chances of it then working are very very slim. |
The author of this post is speaking in generalities from his personal experience.
Your experience may vary.
Sorry but haven't read through the entire thread so this may have come up before.
I approached my bank manager and posed him with a hypothetical question saying that I paid for a product for 8 months and I will not be receiving that product in it's entirity the only thing I would receive is gift tokens to the amount owed, his response was that the bank would refund the debit and they would then send my report to the Fraud Investigation Team as a possible scam, he also mentioned that I would have 4 years from date of debit to report this.
I am in the UK so not sure if this applies across the globe, but it sounded pretty reasonable to me, even though I might not receive the monies back from NCsoft itself.
Too many 50's to list here's a few you may know.
Slazenger, Area51, Area53, Area54, Erruption, Mind Plague, Thresher, Sheath, Broadside, Debt
Quote:
I was going off a UK website (which.co.uk), I knew I should have made that clearer.|
Originally Posted by Paris_NA
I work for a company that creates custom products for clients. You have up to 1 year to try for a chargeback. It will also be easier in situations where 30-120 days is shorter than the amount of time it would take to recieve your goods or services.
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| There is also a time limit on claims - Visa, for example, sets a 120 day time limit which starts from the day you are aware of a problem. In the case of tangible goods that you've purchased from a shop or online it would therefore be from the day you receive the items. |
NCsoft have stated that they will get in touch with us.
Ultrahumanite posted up a very similar email reply to what my GF received when she enquired about the refunds (and my GF sent the email the day of the announcement, received it the following afternoon (or thereabouts)
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Discussion Thread Response Via Email (GM Lloyd) 09/02/2012 10:48 AM Hello, We would first like to thank you for your support of City of Heroes. It is never easy to make this kind of decision. You can read the official announcement at http://na.cityofheroes.com/en/news/n.../thank_you.php. There is a discussion on the forums that you are free to join at http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=295621. For refunds of unused time or unspent Paragon Points, we will be contacting those players directly with information. Please watch the website for any official updates as soon as they are available. City of Heroes will be available for at least the next three months. We are working on something special for our VIP and Premium players. As soon as these plans are ready, they will be announced on the website and the forums. |
Yeah am waiting, hence only posing a hypothetical question to the BM.
But am glad I cleared up one problem if things end up going the wrong way.
Too many 50's to list here's a few you may know.
Slazenger, Area51, Area53, Area54, Erruption, Mind Plague, Thresher, Sheath, Broadside, Debt
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While technically true, most credit cards will, in fact, "claw back" money in situations like these as a courtesy to their customers.|
Originally Posted by Anarchist_Kitten
Unfortunately after it's fully cleared that isn't always possible. There is a time limit for such things, and digital stuff is even harder.
But yeah, those that paid far in advance should get their money back, not credit in other NCSoft games, that's complete and utter bulls**t. |
If you're owed money and not satisfied with anything NCSoft offers, dispute the charge. Most credit cards have an online form for this, in fact, although you only secure your rights legally if you do it in writing and do it within 60 days of the charge posting. Alas, the card I used doesn't have an online form, so I'm going to have to go the written route, but I've done this before. It's not painful. Costs a stamp--big deal.
40062: The World's Worst PUG
84008: Jenkins's Guide to Super-Villainy
230187: The Hero of Kings Row
No H8 - 08.04.10
@Circuit Boy - Moderator - Pride global chat channel
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Yeah, but the problem is Zwillinger, as my credit card company told me, once it's gone through you have limited chance to dispute it as you approved the charge already. So, we have a VERY limited window on this if they dont' give us refunds, by the time we find out they aren't there won't be much we can do if we do need to dispute something with PayPal or our credit card company. NCSoft needs to give us an answer, unless taking away our options due to a statute of limitations on disuptes is their intent, which I really hope isn't the case.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
That looks very much to me like the "standard response" from customer service.
At this point I've not received any details regarding a refund process, what you can get a refund for or how to go about requesting one. As soon as they pass along those details, myself or whomever is left will definitely communicate that. For now, I can't do anything but advise you to wait until NCsoft has communicated that information. FWIW, I'm very sorry that they haven't communicated this information and have passed along your frustrations. |
I think it would be helpful to clearly indicate which of the two different or three different discussions everyone is responding to here. I'm guility of glossing them over myself.
One question involved legal action for handling being charged for services not provided, e.g. being charged for 12 months of service when only 3 more will be provided. IMO this is just a standard service dispute, no different than a dispute with your cable company or Ticketmaster. Again I don't have much to say about this, because its not my money, and not my place to tell anyone what their money is worth. In my completely not-legal-advice opinion, there isn't much of a case here. It just looks really bad in the public relations sense for NCSoft to cancel a game and not have answers to such a basic question.
The other question involves the probability of NCSoft sending you a Cease and Desist order for reusing your City of Heroes characters elsewhere. (And to which I was primarily directing my latter responses.)
I am NOT a lawyer. I am a content creator who has consulted lawyers and publishers over this question out of similar concerns. I am also a former volunteer small-time creator of multiplayer content (in which role I personally voluntarily signed away some copyright to a commercial game under a work-for-hire contract, as described elsewhere in this thread).
IMO the biggest risk to someone worried about their CoH characters is not NCSoft coming after you with an IP claim on your character. It's that creating a character in an MMO is likely not sufficient proof of copyright for either NCSoft or for you. For example, someone could grab the banner in my post below and create a comic series starring 4 or 5 of those characters, and there's probably little I could do about it. (I say "probably" because as Arcanaville explains, it's not possible to bank on a for-sure answer.)
Anyway, my main advice is not really legal, its practical. If you are concerned someone might steal your character, do not showcase it in an MMO. It's not that NCSoft is likely to send you a Cease and Desist letter, its that you are showing your ideas using a medium that establishes an extremely weak copyright or trademark claim at best. Only put anything into the game you're okay with possibly being lifted from you.
Deleting the character from the game likely does not provide you any extra protection in any case.
What might be worth doing also is taking a print out of your account records with NCsoft as well. Most banks can check back and see a pattern when it comes to monthly, 6 monthly or yearly purchases, but if your like me and purchased quite a few points on the 21st August it's nice to have something if the banks raise an eyebrow about payments.
I tend to print everything when matters like these come up, they seem to hold more weight than what comes out of my mouth.
Too many 50's to list here's a few you may know.
Slazenger, Area51, Area53, Area54, Erruption, Mind Plague, Thresher, Sheath, Broadside, Debt
What a lot of people are talking about is the amount of time that you can file a dispute. On the day I found this out, I called my bank and I asked them what THEIR dispute time was. I was told by MY BANK that if I think there could be a problem, I should get my dispute registered immediately, as the longer I wait, the less chance I have of getting something done. Now, I would LOVE to be able to give NCSoft all the time... but I can't. Because MY BANK told me not to wait. I did NOT file a dispute at that time, I told them I would try to resolve it with NCSoft first, but please send me information in case polite negotiation doesn't work.
I don't want to get my bank involved and dispute charges, I HATE doing that and I know the additional hardship that 'chargebacks" places on the company.
Prime example, I once felt I was owed a refund from SOE and I emailed them about it. They stated their no refunds policy and I sent them another email, politely explaining my reasons thinking my case should be an exception. I got a reply from Smedley himself, saying that they would refund my money and they did. I politely worked with SOE to try to get a refund from them before any 'knee-jerk' dispute was filed and I got my refund because I made a clear and concise email about it. I've done this with NCSoft also, but they keep giving me different answers. That I've seen two messages have been posted of different thing people were told by NCSoft... I've gotten both of those messages. I tried to be polite with them as I was with SOE. It failed. I have no choice now but to take off the gloves.
Think I should call NCSoft about the refunds, record it, and put it up on youtube?
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That's right!!!!|
Originally Posted by White Hot Flash
That's about how I feel about this particular situation.
Anytime you buy Time in advance, you're running the risk that you won't be able to actually use it when the time comes to do so. And whoever stockpiled thousands of points "just in case" gets no sympathy at all. Why would you spend money for points you might use later when you can just spend money for points that you want to use right now? Why should a company refund someone for poor planning by the customer? If this sounds harsh, it's called Life. Welcome to it. If I were looking for refunds, I'd stick to game time only. Microtransactions are usually "buyer beware." |
(girls..don't wear a short skirt around this guy...just sayin')
Proud member of the Cole-a-lition.
Fighting to make every reality, a better reality.
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Well, can NCSoft legally burn my house down in order to revoke my access to their game materials? Colloquially I would say that's obviously illegal. Legally, I'd say you should consult with an attorney before the smoke stops rising from your shoes.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Is it? You may be right. Most practicing lawyers don't use the term 'black letter' law a lot. That was my point.
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I've heard many lawyers use the term "black letter law" colloquially, but not technically. In much the same way that information systems professionals use the word "delete" colloquially, but only in far more limited fashion technically.
For example: what does pushing the red x button and entering your character name in the blank do? It deletes your character of course. Does that actually delete your character? Almost certainly not. That sequence of answers makes perfect sense to me.
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| I wouldn't bet my life that 2×2=4. |
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Going to miss you Arcana. 
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[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
All you really need is a third point to triangulate from, and a projectile that ignores intervening matter.
Or... hmm. Can you do that thing Angelina Jolie could do in the movie about the kid who shot pigs?
The special something is they are putting all VIP's and Premium players on double secret probation.
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Wanted, with James McAvoy and Morgan Freeman.|
Originally Posted by Jack_NoMind
All you really need is a third point to triangulate from, and a projectile that ignores intervening matter.
Or... hmm. Can you do that thing Angelina Jolie could do in the movie about the kid who shot pigs? |
Not a bad film overall. I enjoyed it (not to mention as well that i do enjoy the keyboard smash face scene....)
I was going to post a gif of it up... but i think the swearing would get it removed.
Instead, here is the link http://iruntheinternet.com/057
What were the bullets credited as? They were the real stars.
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Bendy Bob and Brain Remover i believe their names were.|
Originally Posted by Jack_NoMind
What were the bullets credited as? They were the real stars.
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Although for me, the real stars were the rats
I never *did* get around to making that mastermind -- "Squeak Squeak Boom."
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What else is there? Basically, my bio and my gameplay actions in the game. My gameplay actions - logs of what I did, my character build, etc - all seem to be entirely reasonable for NCSoft to assert perpetual license to use, and I certainly can't really use them at all. My bio is the only other genuinely creative contribution I've made to the character within the game itself that NCSoft could claim license to, and that's something you would have difficulty arguing that you had to fill in just to "try the game." |
Originally Posted by Obitus
NCSoft almost certainly has the right to use a likeness of Arcanaville as she appears in CoH, perhaps even to use a likeness of her in any CoH-themed product, but that's probably about it. Everything else is likely up in the air until and unless the matter is more clearly defined by precedent (or by specific legislation, which may itself end up getting challenged in the courts).
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Everything else about the character, what I've discussed on the forums, what I've dreamed up, what I've sketched on paper, none of that are things NCSoft can assert ownership of or license to (or rather, they can, but if the law had anything to do with English they wouldn't have the right to do).
If you don't want NCSoft to be able to use it, just don't put it in the actual game. There's no specific reason to do so.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
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'nuff said.
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Originally Posted by Lulipop
The Answers below were automatically selected and shown to you by RightNow SmartA$$...
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I love you. E-marry me.
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Originally Posted by UNB0UND_4_LIFE
'nuff said.
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On a vaguely related note i was reading the Perfect World terms the other day and they actually state that by agreeing to use their services anything you create in their games or post on any of their forums becomes their property. Not that they reserve the rights to use it, it's actually their exclusive property as soon as it's posted in their games or forums. Obviously that might not hold up in court, but unless i drastically misread the agreement that's what it claims. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
What else is there? Basically, my bio and my gameplay actions in the game. My gameplay actions - logs of what I did, my character build, etc - all seem to be entirely reasonable for NCSoft to assert perpetual license to use, and I certainly can't really use them at all. My bio is the only other genuinely creative contribution I've made to the character within the game itself that NCSoft could claim license to, and that's something you would have difficulty arguing that you had to fill in just to "try the game."
Everything else about the character, what I've discussed on the forums, what I've dreamed up, what I've sketched on paper, none of that are things NCSoft can assert ownership of or license to (or rather, they can, but if the law had anything to do with English they wouldn't have the right to do). If you don't want NCSoft to be able to use it, just don't put it in the actual game. There's no specific reason to do so. |
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Thank you for contacting us about this current issue, until stated
otherwise there will be no refunds of any City Of Heroes accounts at this
time. You may request a transfer of equal exchange of your remaining
balance on City Of Heroes for time allotment on another NCsoft title of
your choosing.
^
GG NCsoft, GG.
Thanks for all the fish. =|
Refund pl0x.. [Incident: 1010304-0040311]
LulzNC,
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Title: City of Heroes Going Rogue Expansion Prepurchase Instructions
Link: http://help.ncsoft.com/cgi-bin/ncsof...ted=1267482336
Title: Purchasing City of Heroes Booster Packs or In-Game Item Packs from the NCsoft Store
Link: http://help.ncsoft.com/cgi-bin/ncsof...ted=1267049441
Title: Online Code Purchase from NCsoft
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Title: Redeeming your Game Card
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Title: Canceling Multiple Game Accounts
Link: http://help.ncsoft.com/cgi-bin/ncsof...ted=1155914482
Customer (LulzNC Soft)09/06/2012 06:20 AM Since I won't be able to play City Of Heroes anymore how about one of you guiz do me a favor and refund my money on my CC? Or mail me a check. I take paypal, money orders, and even bribes if it's awesome enough.
Sadness. [---001:003565:93431---]
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refund
Discussion Thread
Response Via Email (GM Lloyd) 09/02/2012 10:48 AM
Hello,
We would first like to thank you for your support of City of Heroes. It is never easy to make this kind of decision. You can read the official announcement at http://na.cityofheroes.com/en/news/n.../thank_you.php. There is a discussion on the forums that you are free to join at http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=295621.
For refunds of unused time or unspent Paragon Points, we will be contacting those players directly with information. Please watch the website for any official updates as soon as they are available.
City of Heroes will be available for at least the next three months. We are working on something special for our VIP and Premium players. As soon as these plans are ready, they will be announced on the website and the forums.
Regards,
GM Lloyd
The City of Heroes Support Team
The above is the response I received in regard to a refund. I have NO intention on applying my unused balance to another NCSoft game or product.