City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Response from NCsoft Support (About Refunds)

Ad Astra

By Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2012-09-09 06:25 in CoH and CoV General Discussions

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
Deleting the character from the game likely does not provide you any extra protection in any case.
No it don't but it will provide better protection than not doing it at all. While I am not deluding myself that if NCsoft wanted to they could go looking in past dbase dumps for the information. I highly doubt they will. And to tell the truth I'm not worried about most of my heroes or villains only two really. Two of the first I created in my tenure playing the game.

 

Posted

First, if you read the EULA then you'll find they are libel if they break the contract agreement. It states cases for a user breaking the contract and spells out their responsibility to provide the game environment.

In our case since they have chosen not to support or provide continued service they are in breach of the EULA and are libel. They may provide options, but if you demand monetary credit back to a bank/credit card then they can be found libel for that refund. If they provide credits for other games you can choose that option waiving right to monetary refunds.

At this point in time you can contact your financial institution and stop payment/request reversal of payment, then it's a matter for them to address with NCsoft. This stop payment should not require terminating your account as it would be just like your account dropping back to either VIP or F2P by the NCsoft system.

A class action would be valid in this case since they are in breach of their part of the agreement by suspending support of the game. However CAs are notoriously slow and monetarily you may never see much of your money returned depending on the size of the suit.

"It is that balance, the ground between EB and AV, where the PvP struggle should exist. Where a 1v1 becomes a struggle of equals, and 1vMany gives the benefit to the 1."

Freedom: Fireocity, Electro Imp, Gotya
Infinity: Meteor Storm, Mutai Kid, General Bot, Da Smasher

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciera View Post
First, if you read the EULA then you'll find they are libel if they break the contract agreement. It states cases for a user breaking the contract and spells out their responsibility to provide the game environment.

In our case since they have chosen not to support or provide continued service they are in breach of the EULA and are libel. They may provide options, but if you demand monetary credit back to a bank/credit card then they can be found libel for that refund. If they provide credits for other games you can choose that option waiving right to monetary refunds.

At this point in time you can contact your financial institution and stop payment/request reversal of payment, then it's a matter for them to address with NCsoft. This stop payment should not require terminating your account as it would be just like your account dropping back to either VIP or F2P by the NCsoft system.

A class action would be valid in this case since they are in breach of their part of the agreement by suspending support of the game. However CAs are notoriously slow and monetarily you may never see much of your money returned depending on the size of the suit.
Just so you know (since it was confusing me for the first couple of sentences), i think the term you're looking for is not libel, but liable. i kept wondering why you were claiming that NCsoft was defaming you and how that was a breach of contract. Then it clicked. i can be bizarrely literal sometimes.

Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schismatrix View Post
...Obviously that might not hold up in court, but unless i drastically misread the agreement that's what it claims.
Adding to the recent theme of the thread, I wouldn't bet money on anything that happens in court.

I'm personally amazed EULAs have -ever- been upheld, and I think software companies should thank God, whether they believe or not, that they've recieved as much protection as they have from the EULAs.

Murphys Military Law

#23. Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.

#46. If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed towards you.

#54. Killing for peace is like screwing for virginity.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obitus View Post
Yeah, that's sorta the point; you shouldn't take the EULA as an iron-clad guarantee of your success (or failure) if any of these matters should come to a head.
Just letting everyone know, regardless of what the EULA may or may not say, if you were fortunate enough to pay via American Express, just call them and say "the product delivered was not as promised". You will get a refund, period.

If you really want to punch NCsoft in the balls, you could probably get a few months of previous payments refunded as well, although they will probably kill your account.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interface View Post
Just letting everyone know, regardless of what the EULA may or may not say, if you were fortunate enough to pay via American Express, just call them and say "the product delivered was not as promised". You will get a refund, period.

If you really want to punch NCsoft in the balls, you could probably get a few months of previous payments refunded as well, although they will probably kill your account.
Yeah that's the one thing I'm semi-worried about, but in the end, if they do I still have already done what needs to be done to keep in contact with the friends I've made over the years. However, when I felt I had no choice but to dispute charges, I made sure to NOT dispute the 14.99 charges that were my VIP subscription. As I said earlier, I hate disputing charges, but I very strongly feel that points purchased in the last month to two months, stuff that I will not have much time to actually play to 50 unless I farm (and if I did, big whoop i got another 50 being deleted in less than 3 months), is stealing my money. If I bought a DVD and found that only half of the movie was there, I wouldn't accept anything but either a refund OR the rest of the movie. They have shown they want to give me another movie in a totally different genre? That's not acceptable.

Oh, and I will add though, even if I don't get a refund for my points spent on stuff I won't really get a chance to use as I believe I should, that is nothing compared to those of you with prepaid VIP subscriptions extending past the 3 month window (or hell, even past the day of the announcement really). Even if I can't get my points money back, there is NO reason you extended prepaid VIPs shouldn't.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schismatrix View Post
On a vaguely related note i was reading the Perfect World terms the other day and they actually state that by agreeing to use their services anything you create in their games or post on any of their forums becomes their property. Not that they reserve the rights to use it, it's actually their exclusive property as soon as it's posted in their games or forums. Obviously that might not hold up in court, but unless i drastically misread the agreement that's what it claims.
You are probably referring to these two clauses:

Quote:
In the event that you make any modifications, adaptations or derivative works of any kind to the Proprietary Materials (the "Modifications"), whether authorized or unauthorized, you understand and agree that you shall retain no rights of any kind in and to such Modifications and that all rights therein shall belong solely to PWE. You hereby assign and transfer to PWE, without any compensation, any and all rights you may have in and to such Modifications.
Quote:
User Content posted to the Website is publicly available and not confidential and will become the sole property of PWE. PWE strongly recommends that you not publish any personal information about yourself or others on or through the Website. In consideration of your use of the Service, you hereby transfer and assign to PWE all right, title and interest in and to the User Content you create, post, store or transmit on or through the Website, including all intellectual property rights therein, and PWE shall be entitled to the unrestricted use, dissemination and other exploitation of such User Content for any purpose, commercial or otherwise, without acknowledgment or compensation to you.
I'm curious to know what legal theory Perfect World's lawyers believed allows them to circumvent US Copyright Law:

Quote:
A transfer of copyright ownership, other than by operation of law, is not valid unless an instrument of conveyance, or a note or memorandum of the transfer, is in writing and signed by the owner of the rights conveyed or such owner's duly authorized agent.
Especially since in my non-legal professional opinion, they screwed up here:

Quote:
This Agreement is governed by and shall be construed and enforced under the laws of the State of California, without applying any conflicts of law principles which would require application of the law of any other jurisdiction. PWE and you each hereby irrevocably consent to the jurisdiction of the courts of the State of California for all purposes in connection with any action or proceeding which arises out of or relates to this Agreement and agree that any action or proceeding instituted under this Agreement shall be brought only in the federal or state courts of San Mateo County, State of California.
San Mateo falls within the US district court for the Northern District of California. They seem to be a "statute of frauds" jurisdiction with regard to interpreting 17.204a. Not the smartest example of jurisdiction-shopping.

[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]

In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)

 

Posted

Almost ten thousand views.

Groovy.

Better get those refunds going, NCSoft. People are getting antsy.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
Scenario: Trickshooter is a long-term fan of the game who creates very detailed characters with awesome bios and costumes. Another CoH player, who is a comic book artist, decides to steal several of his ideas, and modifies the character just enough that it avoids violating CoH's IP. What defense does Trickshooter have?
Is crying a defense? Because that's probably what I'd end up doing.

Trickshooter's Characters | @Trickshooter @Brightside

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
I'm curious to know what legal theory Perfect World's lawyers believed allows them to circumvent US Copyright Law:
Maybe they believe the US can't enforce American copyright laws in China.

But that's only a guess and I could be utterly wrong.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Maybe they believe the US can't enforce American copyright laws in China.

But that's only a guess and I could be utterly wrong.
You would be right. US Law can not be enforced outside the US and its territories. US Copyrights can only be enforced in another country if that country cooperates with the US. If you look at some of the anti piracy stuff outside the US, it had influence yes but no jurisdiction the investigations and arrests were done by those countries themselves and trials will be handled in those countries.

Look at the bittorrent tracker Demonoid for example. US influenced Ukraine and Mexico to do something. But the investigations and arrests were done by Ukraine and Mexico. Thats becuase the US can not do anything outside its borders as far as enforcing its own laws. Well at least without going to war over said laws anyways.

 

Posted

Yeah. There's no way they could enforce US laws on some Chinese company like Cryptic Studios. What's a name like that supposed to mean, anyway?

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_NoMind View Post
Yeah. There's no way they could enforce US laws on some Chinese company like Cryptic Studios. What's a name like that supposed to mean, anyway?
Ok, first of all NCSOFT is Korean, not Chinese. Second, Cryptic Studios is the original DEVELOPERS of the City of Heroes property that worked with the PUBLISHER NCSoft to release the game, the later sold the game to the PUBLISHER, NCSOFT, a number of years ago.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist_Kitten View Post
Ok, first of all NCSOFT is Korean, not Chinese. Second, Cryptic Studios is the original DEVELOPERS of the City of Heroes property that worked with the PUBLISHER NCSoft to release the game, the later sold the game to the PUBLISHER, NCSOFT, a number of years ago.
Pay attention. We weren't talking about NCSoft. We were talking about Perfect World who now owns Cryptic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schismatrix View Post
On a vaguely related note i was reading the Perfect World terms the other day and they actually state that by agreeing to use their services anything you create in their games or post on any of their forums becomes their property. Not that they reserve the rights to use it, it's actually their exclusive property as soon as it's posted in their games or forums. Obviously that might not hold up in court, but unless i drastically misread the agreement that's what it claims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
I'm curious to know what legal theory Perfect World's lawyers believed allows them to circumvent US Copyright Law:
Perfect World has headquarters in Beijing China and Redwood City California. Hence my comment about enforcing copyright in China.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Maybe they believe the US can't enforce American copyright laws in China.

But even if we were talking about NCSoft the instead of Perfect World the US copyright laws still can't be enforced outside US borders without the cooperation of the foreign government where the copyright violations are occuring.

 

Posted

We have reviewed your refund request and are processing a refund for order number 28160292. A $45.30 credit has been applied to your card. This may not appear until your next billing statement.

This e-mail is also your confirmation that recurring billing for this account has been canceled. You will no longer be billed for this account.

Please let us know if you have any further questions.

Thank you,
Robert
NCsoft Account Support

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Pay attention. We weren't talking about NCSoft. We were talking about Perfect World who now owns Cryptic.






Perfect World has headquarters in Beijing China and Redwood City California. Hence my comment about enforcing copyright in China.




But even if we were talking about NCSoft the instead of Perfect World the US copyright laws still can't be enforced outside US borders without the cooperation of the foreign government where the copyright violations are occuring.
Ah, ok sorry my bad. Just so much going on in this thread, I got confused.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unhearted View Post
We have reviewed your refund request and are processing a refund for order number 28160292. A $45.30 credit has been applied to your card. This may not appear until your next billing statement.

This e-mail is also your confirmation that recurring billing for this account has been canceled. You will no longer be billed for this account.

Please let us know if you have any further questions.

Thank you,
Robert
NCsoft Account Support
What was that for? Your VIP time?

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project View Post
Pay attention. We weren't talking about NCSoft. We were talking about Perfect World who now owns Cryptic.






Perfect World has headquarters in Beijing China and Redwood City California. Hence my comment about enforcing copyright in China.




But even if we were talking about NCSoft the instead of Perfect World the US copyright laws still can't be enforced outside US borders without the cooperation of the foreign government where the copyright violations are occuring.
The Perfect World EULA does specify that the laws of California are the ones that apply, which is curious since, as Arcanaville pointed out, US copyright laws make the clauses unenforceable.

Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...