Save CoH - Information Masterpost


Alexis_NA

 

Posted

Check the second post to see ways you can help! A basic changelog is here!

Hey all! I've seen a lot of information float around and I thought it'd be nice to compile it all together. As much as I'd like to focus on being persuasive about this, I thought it'd be first to get a lot of context. Hence: Gonna make this information master post!
This first post will be updated with information, so post if there's updates, corrections and whatnot. Then, check this post! All help is GREATLY appreciated. Let's start:

Official Announcements



Basics
  • City of Heroes and Paragon Studios were officially shut down by NCsoft on August 31st, 2012.
  • The official date the servers close will be November 30th.
Theories
  • There may be several reasons for the shut down, but details have still not been fully revealed.
  • It was NCsoft's decision. "In a realignment of company focus and publishing support, NCsoft has made the decision to close Paragon Studios."
  • Theory: CoH was not bringing in enough money.
  • Theory: To compensate, closed Paragon Studios.
  • Sub-Theory: City of Heroes takes the fall for the mistake of Aion. "NCSoft loses 6 million in quarter." http://bit.ly/TFiZdc
  • Theory: "NCsoft is now going in outsource, and will be moving to certain new games with new technology that sadly CoH Engine cannot support."
  • Debunked! Theory: CoH needed a licensing renewal but Cryptic/Perfect World does not want to extend a competitor (as they own Champions Online).
  • (cont.) The real issue is that Cryptic/PW still own the license to the CoH engine. Thus, in order to sell the game, they would have to approve.


Ideas
  • Information is listed on the second post.
  • We're dealing with corporate decisions, which will need more than petitions. As much as I support petitioning, there have been MANY cases where it has not worked, or rather, has not been enough.
  • Contact NCsoft directly. Call their numbers, reach the CEO. Send paper letters. Go to their building and (civilly) protest.
  • Contact Perfect World directly. Call their numbers too, reach their CEO. Send paper letters. Go to their building, and so on.
  • Have community projects sustain the game. This means collecting money, from trying to allow private servers to even possibly convincing NCsoft to revert this.
  • Contact well-known people. This ranges from celebrities to other gaming companies. The more news about this goes out, the great publicity we'll receive. The more people know about this, especially well-known people, the most likely our actions will have an effect on the business.


Specifics
  • The CoH staff came into work the morning of the 31st, unaware that this was happening. It was sudden for them as it was for the players. The studio was dissolved immediately, along with any development and marketing. This means Paragon Market, points and billing were terminated immediately.
  • The official end date for all of City of Heroes is November 30th. That means the players have about three months left, although there is reason to suspect it may be closed sooner. However, this is still vague and will be updated when more details come.
  • All the staff from Paragon Studios have been laid off, and are technically no longer connected to the game. However, there are a few who will be sticking around until the end. To be pedantic - they have not been fired.
  • Developers and management are technically no longer around. Again, a few will be staying to help for the last few months. However, it's shaky how much power they have. The only staff group that are officially still around seems to be the server engineers.

Theories
  • Theory: CoH was not bringing in enough money.
  • Compared to other NCsoft games, CoH is the lowest percentage of their profit and popularity. (I need help in gathering numbers)
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rubberlad View Post
    Long story short:

    1) Q2 2012 was the first time ever that NCsoft was operating with a significantly NEGATIVE profit margin (ouch!).
    2) City of Heroes had the lowest performing game sales (even Aion was doing much better...).

    In a word, it wasn't Cryptic Studios withholding license renewal that doomed CoH... It wasn't NCsoft hating on American gamers... At the end of the day, NCsoft was in the red and they cut the lowest-performing IP in their stable of games (and also the one with a significant mount of unjustifiable expense) just to rescue their bottom line... Can't say I blame them from an investment perspective. Unfortunately for all of us that turned out to be City of Heroes.


    See for yourself by getting the 2Q 2012, August 8th unaudited earnings report here:

    http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/quarterly.aspx



    I'm sure if NCsoft had maintained a profit this quarter, we wouldn't be in the predicament we are now. But they didn't and the price of doing business in a very competitive industry right now had to be paid...

    Sorry folks.
  • Sub-Theory: City of Heroes takes the fall for the mistake of Aion.
  • http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/08...6m-loss-in-q2/
  • "The mega-publisher announced that its second quarter earnings were lower than expected; it posted a $6 million loss for the period."
    Revenues were down 12% from last year to $130 million, of which a vast majority came from NCsoft's online titles. The company stated that it dipped into the red due to rising labor costs, an increased marketing budget for Blade & Soul's Korean launch, and the acquisition of Ntreev. Aion was also blamed for the company's financial woes, as revenues in that title sharply decreased due to fewer microtransaction sales."
  • Theory: "NCsoft is now going in outsource, and will be moving to certain new games with new technology that sadly CoH Engine cannot support."
  • @SunGryphon's Tweet
    "Apparently NCSoft has decided to outsource everything. All of their games will now run on the same engine, one which CoX does not support. ... Sorry guys, all I have is that she's a former NCSoft employee, and she's offline. She's a GM elsewhere now."
  • Tweet‏
    "NCsoft is now going in outsource, and will be moving to certain new games with new technology that sadly CoH Engine cannot support."

Offsite Coverage

Rumors
  • Debunked! Sony Online Entertainment and one other game publisher already made a generous bid for City of Heroes. http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=296535
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk View Post
    Fresh from the rumor mill. I am IRL looking to get into the Game Design busness, and have had teachers who are and were in the field. They have connections. I talked with one of them a few minutes ago and this is what one of them told me they heard.

    About an hour after the announcement of the end to City of Heroes, SOE and one other game publisher already made a generous bid for the game...


Offsite Communities


Miscellaneous
  • Don't delete your characters!
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TonyV View Post
    Hey all, please don't do anything drastic with your characters. Don't delete them, don't nuke all of your stuff, don't do anything that is irreversible.

    I'm saying this because of two reasons. First, as has been hinted in rumor threads elsewhere and even if it weren't a rumor it would still be possible, another studio may very well pick up this game. If so, it's entirely possible that the servers won't go dark on November 30. If that happens and the game keeps chugging along, you'll be kicking yourself for doing something permanent that carries forward after November.

    Second, at the Titan Network, we are working on tools to export your character data in a form that, even if the servers go down November 30 but we're able to revive the game in some form, will be usable to recreate your character on alternate servers if need be. If you go deleting them or deleting all of your stuff, you'll lose the opportunity to do that and, if the servers are recreated at some point, you'll have to start from scratch instead of having your characters documented in a format that we can use to re-import them unscathed.

    We'll be talking more about this as we make progress on our toolset--we're not keeping it a secret, but we're still in the process of working on it at a furious pace--but in the meantime, like I said, just please don't do anything permanently bad to your stuff.
  • Global meet and greet!
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TonyV View Post
    Hey all, so I'm working on our next Call to Action item, this one hopefully fun. Before I make it all official, I wanted to get some input and put some feelers out for interest.

    The idea is to have the First Annual (that's right, I plan on having MORE!) City of Heroes Save The World Meet-and-Greet. Via our Titan Network forum, we will get a bunch of volunteers in and around major cities around the world to choose venues, and all on the same night (probably a weekend in October), we hold a get-together of massive proportions. Hundreds, maybe thousands, of people all getting together with fellow players to hang out and have some fun. Hopefully we'll get people who can record the events, maybe even put together something like Google Hangouts so that we can talk to people at events in other cities and/or people who can't make it can tune in.

    The goals, as it relates to our Save Paragon City! effort, are as follows...
  • CoH Bucket List


Debunked!
  • This is all an elaborate marketing ploy. - No, 80 people were laid off and this has been confirmed through many sources. We sure wish it was a joke though.
  • This means City of Heroes 2 is going to come out! - Although the trademark for CoH2 was filed by NCsoft in 2010, there has been no development. It's also illogical that Paragon Studios would be pushed out of any of its development.
  • The devs hate us! - Heck no. They're upset and surprised too. Check out their threads on the forums!
  • NCsoft just hates City of Heroes. - It's known that they might not understand our genre so much, but dumping an entire studio out of sheer distaste would be silly.
  • This is all a ploy to get us to play Guild Wars 2/Champions Online/DCUO... - NCsoft does want to have more funds to work on their other games, but City of Heroes was still making a profit.
  • Cryptic did this! They're withholding the license!/It's been five years, we need a renewal but they won't give it to us! - As far as we know, no other companies besides NCsoft contributed to these actions. However, Cryptic still owns the license, and so any sale of CoH would need their permission as well. As far as we know, there was no five year limit.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Come Undone View Post
    Babs, under his player title Tic-Toc (Posi confirmed it was him) squelched that rumor. He currently works at Cryptic and asked Jack himself, who denied that there were any negotiations or revocation of rights going on now or any time recently. This is all on NCsoft's head according to any of the confirmed facts thus far.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Thunder Knight View Post
    This rumor was started when someone on this very forum simply speculated on that idea, and other people ran with it and spiraled it out of control.

    And, yes, there has been "official word" - Zwilliger said it's false.
    From what I've read of late posts, Zwill and BaBs posts simply say that they haven't heard anything that supports that rumor and that it was most likely just a rumor.
    From BaB:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tic-Toc View Post
    Cross-post:
    Ironically, Champions Online celebrated its 3rd year anniversary today and we had a quick company-wide meeting that where last Friday's bombshell about City of Heroes/Paragon came up.

    During Q&A time with Jack, I pont-blank asked him if there was any truth to the rumors about expired licensing agreement with Cryptic's COH engine. He was taken aback about this, unaware of such rumors going around. His response was that NCSoft has the license to use the CoH engine "in perpituity" for both "City of Heroes/City of Villains" as well as a 2nd game.

    I asked him if there was going to be any official response to this rumor concerning Cryptic/PWE and it's not something we plan on doing. We obviously can't be aware of or comment on every rumor floating around on the internet he wasn't sure of what they could say about this particular scenario if they wanted to.

    So whatever reasons NCSoft had for shuttering Paragon, it had absolutely nothing to do with the IP, which they own, or the engine, which they had a license to use indefinitely.

    That's about all I can do to quell this rumor. Take it as you will.

    Again, thoughts go out to all my friends, former co-workers, and recent friendly rivals who've been released into the wild. I hope to see many of them here in the halls of Cryptic very soon. :P
    From Star Trek Online forums: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/sh...1&postcount=93
    Quote:
    Hi Captains,

    I'm still at PAX, actually on the floor as I write this, but I had to stop by to check in on this thread with a few comments.

    First and foremost, our (PWE and Cryptic) thoughts go out to the entire team at Paragon and everyone who is/ was involved with CoH/ CoV. We really wish the best for the team and hope to see their work again on other projects very, very soon. Much of the Cryptic team was actually involved with the project originally; we are all truly and deeply saddened to hear this news.

    Second, the rumor that we were involved in anyway in this decision is just insane. I'm not sure where the rumor originated from but I can confirm that it completely false. Hope that clears that up.

    Cheers,

    Brandon =/\=
  • SOE made an offer to purchase CoH from NCsoft - Sadly, this was debunked twice by John Smedley through e-mail and Twitter.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SlickRiptide View Post
    I see a few responses along the lines of "they wouldn't want to queer the deal by telling the truth" so I wanted to be clear. The reason I don't just paste the email verbatim is that I nrver received explicit permission.

    However, the relevant quote would be "Never been discussed never going to be discussed."

    That IS verbatim. There was no question of hedging. In fact, I exchanged a few emails wiyh Mister Smedley and he was surprisingly forthcoming about his own experiences having to shut down Matrix Online and EQOA. He also expressed his great respect for both City of Heroes and Paragon Studios.

    Bottom line: SOE is not in the picture. At all.
    Tweet:
    https://twitter.com/j_smedley/status/242813132425293824
    Quote:
    John Smedley
    ‏@j_smedley
    someone started a rumor we were buying City of Heroes. NO we are absolutely 100% not. That's a great game though. sorry to hear its fate



((TO BE CONTINUED))

Thank you again for reading. Again, all responses are heavily appreciated. I make mistakes, and I miss information. Anything will help, so please add your feedback and I will edit this thread for such.

Thank you again. Good luck to all of us.


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Posted

How to help!

Corporate

  • Just petitioning won't be enough. Call. Send letters.
    Quote:
    USA Telephone:
    (512) 225-6359
    (206) 588-7200

    WRITE-IN CAMPAIGN: "Never give up - Never Surrender!"

    In the US:

    Mr. Taek Jin Kim, Chief Executive Officer
    NCsoft Corporation
    1501 4th Avenue, Suite 2050
    Seattle, WA 98101
    UNITED STATES

    In Korea:

    Mr. Taek Jin Kim, Chief Executive Officer
    NCsoft Corporation
    157-37 Samsung-dong
    Kangnamu-gu, Seoul 135-090
    KOREA
  • Let's show them how much we care in person. I would gladly join a protest.
    Quote:
    USA Telephone:
    (512) 225-6359

    Address:

    NCSoft (NA/EU)
    6801 N. Capital of Texas Hwy, Bldg 1
    Austin, TX 78731
  • Cryptic/Perfect World still owns the *engine* to CoH. Because they own Champions Online, it's unlikely they'll extend the engine license to a competitor. Call them! Change their mind!
    Quote:
    E-mail:
    bizdev@perfectworldinc.com

    Telephone:
    (650)-590-7700

    Address:

    1001 East Hillsdale Boulevard Suite 800
    Foster City, CA


Forum
I will update this as TonyV's own post updates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyV View Post
Cross-posted on the Titan Network forum
(snipped) ...
  • Nexon contact thread:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by William_Valence View Post
    A thought occurs. Nexon is now the largest shareholder. That might mean they have some pull in these decisions. They may well have been a contributing factor to the shut down decision, but they might be usefull in attempts to get NCsoft to sell.

    (213) 858-5930137 North Larchmont Blvd, Los Angeles, CA 90004

    http://www.nexon.net/corporate/business-opportunities/

    Are the different contacts I could find for the company.

    The goal in contacting them is to convince them that NCsoft selling the IP would be more valuable than just sitting on it...

Offsite


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Posted

Great post, very informative and succinct. I had missed some of the developer responses, but this post showed me where they were


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvenheart View Post
Great post, very informative and succinct. I had missed some of the developer responses, but this post showed me where they were
Thank you! I'm glad this was helpful!

I'm going to bump this thread because I posted it rather late last night and I'd really like some additional stuff to add here so that it'll be all caught up!


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Posted

Let me just debunk the notion that there are 31 days in November.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strangeblaze View Post
Let me just debunk the notion that there are 31 days in November.
LOL Thank you. Gonna fix that typo.


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Posted

Ohh thankyou for this thread its very helpful.


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Have Fun & Stay Safe

 

Posted

Thanks everyone for their responses! Please help spread the word! You can link to this thread with http://tinyurl.com/CoHmasterpost

Thanks again! Keep up the contributions!


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Posted

Amen.

Placed in channel VIP's MOTD.


-Liberty/Exalt/Freedom-

Channel 'VIP' Host!
/chanjoin VIP
@Annihilius

 

Posted

Bump! Everyone should know these things, keep us updated!


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Treees View Post
Ideas
  • Have community projects sustain the game. This means collecting money, from trying to allow private servers to even possibly convincing NCsoft to revert this.
    [/INDENT]
Would it be possible to reverse engineer the game in a similar fashion to what SWGemu did?


 

Posted

Great information! Well-deserving of another bump.

I made a similar thread not too long ago, but it wasn't nearly as thorough or well-noticed. XD Still, if any of the links there are of any use to your Masterpost, feel free to add them! :3

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=296148


 

Posted

Hey all, I've been working on in-game stuff but I was shown an article that covers a lot of this information too. I need to port the information over into the thread itself but here's a link 'til then!

http://mmogrinder.net/2012/09/02/r-i-p-city-of-heroes/

and a sample:

Quote:
The facts, as we know them, are this:

NCSoft has cancelled CoH, and fired Paragon Studios.
This came midst announcements of future content.
NCSoft has lost money in the past year.
Paragon is unwilling to elaborate, and has asked the fans to accept this.
Of course the fans are NOT going to just “accept” this. City of Heroes has one of the most vocal and dedicated MMO fanbases in existence. This is the fanbase that had many people laying into me after I gave their game a POSITIVE review. They are not going to go down quietly. I honestly think fewer people would be upset if WoW was shutting down.

Rumors running around are as follows:

This is all an elaborate marketing scheme for the new expansion.
They say the first two stages of grief are Disbelief and Denial, and nothing illustrates that point more than this theory. This also ties into the “bargaining” phase, where the mind tries to soothe itself by coming up with REASONS it can’t be true. But,


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Posted

That article says "fired" instead of "laid off..." I left them a comment though...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattwo7 View Post
Would it be possible to reverse engineer the game in a similar fashion to what SWGemu did?
Oh right, I should add SWGemu to the list. There's been a few efforts that are close to that, such as the petition for open sourcing the game engine. In addition, we could get code and other info from people who were part of Paragon studios. I'm a bit shifty on adding petitions because they don't make as much of an impact as people might think, but they have good information in terms of what they say.

http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...eroes-villains

Otherwise, there have been ideas to making private servers. This is referenced from here: http://mmogrinder.net/2012/09/02/r-i-p-city-of-heroes/

Quote:
Starting up a private server.
This is being seen as the last resort tactic to this campaign, and sadly probably the most likely solution to keeping this game around. It doesn’t seem likely that NCSoft is going to sell the license as much as let it die. The biggest issue of the private server is keeping the same quality the published game had, its inevitable stagnation from lack of new content and the cost of keeping a server up. It’s also possible the host can be smacked by a C&D from the NCSoft legal department (as they are the rights holders, dead game or not). As much as I hope it won’t have to come to that for you all, I can’t help but think, knowing NCSoft’s reputation, that it may be all you have left. Regardless don’t go down without a fight.

This brings me to another point: Can anyone help gather information from former employees of Paragon Studios? I've included links referencing those who posted in the forums but I'm looking to see if we could get more than that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Fallen_Angel View Post
Great information! Well-deserving of another bump.

I made a similar thread not too long ago, but it wasn't nearly as thorough or well-noticed. XD Still, if any of the links there are of any use to your Masterpost, feel free to add them! :3

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=296148
Thank you for sharing! And thanks, heh. I'm trying my best to make this quality and comprehensive P: I will import information from what you have soon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattwo7 View Post
That article says "fired" instead of "laid off..." I left them a comment though...
Haha, yeah. Thank you for that! I'm assuming most people will read the rest of the information before they go for other sources, but I will add that to the "Debunked!" category.

And, an update:

I added a few sections and fleshed out some categories. I also improved the formatting a little bit, lemme know if it's accessible.

Unfortunately: Schoolwork will be starting again soon. I'm doing a lot of this collection by myself but I really, really want this to stay reliable and functional. I can try my best but I'm going to be honest - I'll need help from others!


Thanks again everyone for posting here, it means a lot to have this seen!


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Posted

SWGEmu more or less built their codebase from scratch, hence "reverse engineer" I'll be fairly honest, I'd expect there to be legal issues in how you have to use the SWG client, and the fact that the Star Wars IP is not theirs to use.


 

Posted

Thought you might want to add this into your Facebook area. This is, as far as I can tell, the main 'refugee' page we've got set up right now, with a current 646 members, including a few of the Devs.

http://www.facebook.com/groups/CoHSurvivors/



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Posted

Everyone that is organizing thank you for all your hard work. As a sign of testicular fortitude against NC Soft I would like to plan a rally/protest on September 15, 2012 at there Seattle Washington office I would like a chance to speak to the CEO of NC Soft and get the real truth behind this and what it would take for us keep COH alive. If you are I interested in showing your support join us. Please feel free to email mail for more information on making a difference.
Cfeakes@gmail.com

NC Soft Seattle
1501 4th Avenue
Seattle WA 98101

thank you all for the fight.
Chad Feakes AKA Blood Pack Virtue Server


 

Posted

Basic Changelog (newest at top)

Quote:
09/10/2012
  • Wow, it's been a while. Added info to the changelog, and going to integrate it soon. Sorry about the delay. Also, will add info and coverage about the Unity Rally.
09/07/201209/05/201209/04/2012
  • SOE rumor double debunked. Will include e-mail content; here's the tweet.
  • Information gathered here, will integrate soon.
  • Includes debunking of PWE involvement, Nexon effort, various news articles and coverage, words from Paragon Staff and a few groups that have sprung up
  • Began discussion about putting this in a public edit format IE Wiki/Google Docs
09/03/2012
  • Future changelog additions will be more detailed
  • Changelog post added
  • Added new sections, quotes and information
09/02/2012
  • Thread creation with the two main retroactive posts


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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady_Erotimi View Post
Some of us are allergic to Facebook.

Shall we create a G+ page, too?


---------------------------------
Heartbroken I lurked a lot but I'll miss you all

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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexis_NA View Post
Some of us are allergic to Facebook.

Shall we create a G+ page, too?
Haha, I just changed the section name to Offsite Communities. Link non-Facebook sites too! I've already added a website. Going to add a Tumblr now. Keep it coming!


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Posted

Hey all,

The Perfect World/Cryptic Studios rumor has been debunked by Posi...
http://boards.coh.com/showthread.php?t=295805

Tic-Toc is Posi...


"when i can savagely beat sheep while issuing ultimatums and torturing people, then i may go back into it" -vara nocturne
Not enough Evil...
I take it back NC SOFT is enough evil for anyone...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by elvnsword09 View Post
Hey all,

The Perfect World/Cryptic Studios rumor has been debunked by Posi...
http://boards.coh.com/showthread.php?t=295805

Tic-Toc is Posi...
Nope, Tic-Toc is BackAlleyBrawler...


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU View Post
Nope, Tic-Toc is BackAlleyBrawler...
can confirm the above, BABs revealed himself as tic toc a month or so ago i believe