Explosive Blast or Energy Torrent I can only choose one
Explosive Blast due to its longer range
@Deadboy
I'd like to point out that the shorter range blaster powers will receive a range upgrade soon(TM).
Energy Torrent knocks all enemies away from you. Explosive Blast knocks enemies away from the center of the blast, so if you target an enemy further away from you, it can even move enemies towards you.
I think the answer depends on your personal playstyle. Personally, I'd choose Explosive Blast, because I like that animation.
10joy
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Just need to point out that this, while a common misconception, isn't true. Knockback, regardless of the shape of the delivering AoE, always knocks its targets directly away from the source of the effect - and in the case of a power like explosive blast, that source is the player. The only way you'd get EB knocking enemies away from the center of the blast is if you use it on an enemy in melee range so that the center is right next to you.|
Originally Posted by Tenjoy
Energy Torrent knocks all enemies away from you. Explosive Blast knocks enemies away from the center of the blast, so if you target an enemy further away from you, it can even move enemies towards you.
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The only way you get radial KB is with PBAoEs or powers that use a pseudopet (like bonfire) to deliver the knockback (which is therefore treated as the source).
Personally, especially if you've got a KB suppression IO so that you can use them back to back without worrying about the first knocking them out of range of the second, I'd be really loath to drop either of them. If you forced me to choose I'd probably ask if you spend much time in melee using the melee attacks. If so, I'd keep explosive blast since I could use it without jumping out of melee, if not I'd keep energy torrent since it's got similar damage for less recharge and end. Really, though, I'd take a extremely close look at my build to see if there was *anything* else I could drop instead. I'm always very reluctant to sacrifice AoE potential on my blasters, as I feel that on teams that's the niche they can lay the best claim to.
@MuonNeutrino
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Torrent will remain unchanged, the T3 short range blast that will get its range extended is Power Burst.
| I'd like to point out that the shorter range blaster powers will receive a range upgrade soon(TM). |
@Deadboy
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I have actually had the same experience as Tenjoy. Energy Torrent sends my enemies flying away from me, but Explosive Blast sends them away from the target. (I have witnessed the same effects from my Peacebringer's Luminous Detonation attack.) This makes sense: with any other Targeted AoE, the effect starts at the target and radiates outward. Just as the damage component of Explosive Blast radiates outward from the target, so does the knockback effect.|
Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
Just need to point out that this, while a common misconception, isn't true. Knockback, regardless of the shape of the delivering AoE, always knocks its targets directly away from the source of the effect - and in the case of a power like explosive blast, that source is the player. The only way you'd get EB knocking enemies away from the center of the blast is if you use it on an enemy in melee range so that the center is right next to you.
The only way you get radial KB is with PBAoEs or powers that use a pseudopet (like bonfire) to deliver the knockback (which is therefore treated as the source). |
I am not saying you are wrong, Muon, because in truth I have never researched the actual powers and thus have no tangible evidence to provide. I am only saying that my experience with Explosive Blast and powers like it, both from my characters and other players', has been for the knockback to radiate out from the targeted NPC, regardless of the player's location.
To answer the OP: if you hover-blast, I would use Explosive Blast for the longer range and to avoid having to line up the cone. If you mix melee with blasts, Energy Torrent is probably better since you have better control on the direction in which you are knocking back your enemies, and the range doesn't matter since you are getting in close anyway.
@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
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Originally Posted by Muon_Neutrino
Just need to point out that this, while a common misconception, isn't true. Knockback, regardless of the shape of the delivering AoE, always knocks its targets directly away from the source of the effect - and in the case of a power like explosive blast, that source is the player. The only way you'd get EB knocking enemies away from the center of the blast is if you use it on an enemy in melee range so that the center is right next to you.
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Originally Posted by Winterminal
I have actually had the same experience as Tenjoy. Energy Torrent sends my enemies flying away from me, but Explosive Blast sends them away from the target. (I have witnessed the same effects from my Peacebringer's Luminous Detonation attack.) This makes sense: with any other Targeted AoE, the effect starts at the target and radiates outward. Just as the damage component of Explosive Blast radiates outward from the target, so does the knockback effect.
I am not saying you are wrong, Muon, because in truth I have never researched the actual powers and thus have no tangible evidence to provide. I am only saying that my experience with Explosive Blast and powers like it, both from my characters and other players', has been for the knockback to radiate out from the targeted NPC, regardless of the player's location. |
Explosive Blast might appear to radiate out from the targeted foe, but clearly knocks back everything that it does knock back (it has a 50% chance) away from the user of the power, not from the central guy it's targeted on.
Now, if you're beside or inside the spawn, it will radiate them because they are blown away from you, and you happen to be near the targeted guy/center of the blast. And when fired against already-moving targets, it's hard to accurately track them all. And of course that 50% chance leaves some standing (and moving toward you) and some not, which also might mask what's going on.
But I tested against small and large groups, by targeting the backmost guy. If your understanding is accurate, the ones in front of him should be blown toward me every time they do get knocked, right? radiating away from the blast center?
But they are not. They are uniformly blown away from my position in a straight line. In fact, the times I fail to knock the guy I target, I see all the other ones who did get knocked back sail past him, away from me.
The ones I fail to knock, or miss entirely, however, run toward me, or run away, so the spawn does tend to open up -- but that would be the same with Energy Torrent, it's not a feature of Explosive Blast.
I'll be the first to admit it seems logical that EB should knock back radially. I, too, used to wonder about it. But it doesn't. But in the hectic world of combat, especially on a squishy, it's easy to jump to what sound like logical conclusions, or to incorrectly remember small details. Thus the value of testing.
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Explosive Blast does, in fact, knock enemies directly away from the caster - not radially. However, I believe the occurrence of this common misconception that the power has radial knockback is due to two factors: one, its explosion FX look like it should push everything out from the middle, but less obviously: two, if you are hovering overhead when you activate the power, the group will scatter radially. This is because the vector between you and each critter in the group collides with the plane of the ground, and vectors with slight leftwards leans (critters that were slightly to the left of your target from you) push those critters to the left, and vice versa for those on the right.
In regards to the OP's question, I would probably never make an NRG/* build without both of them. 
How come I never got official dev response to my "Whirlwind or group fly, pick one or else!" thread?
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
How come I never got official dev response to my "Whirlwind or group fly, pick one or else!" thread?
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There it is. My Energy blaster is a hover blaster, so virtually every time I've used this power, enemies have indeed been scattered in every direction. My apologies for the misinformation! Thanks for the clarification, Hawk.
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Originally Posted by Arbiter Hawk
Explosive Blast does, in fact, knock enemies directly away from the caster - not radially. However, I believe the occurrence of this common misconception that the power has radial knockback is due to two factors: one, its explosion FX look like it should push everything out from the middle, but less obviously: two, if you are hovering overhead when you activate the power, the group will scatter radially. This is because the vector between you and each critter in the group collides with the plane of the ground, and vectors with slight leftwards leans (critters that were slightly to the left of your target from you) push those critters to the left, and vice versa for those on the right.
In regards to the OP's question, I would probably never make an NRG/* build without both of them. |
@Winter. Because I'm Winter. Period.
I am a blaster first, and an alt-oholic second.
I would drop neither, because keeping groups of mobs off their feet is what keeps my energy blaster alive. If you put a gun to her head and told her to pick one to give up, she'd probably tell you to just pull the trigger.
However, Energy Torrent has better damage and better recharge, so I'd drop Explosive Blast. If I had to. Though I can't imagine what pool powers and epics would be worth not taking both of the AoEs.
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Although, what I find strange is that if EB's KB was really radial from the target, you'd think you'd see a critter knocked towards you at least once, but even though that never actually happens in practice, the illusion that EB's KB is radial is still very strong.|
Originally Posted by Arbiter Hawk
Explosive Blast does, in fact, knock enemies directly away from the caster - not radially. However, I believe the occurrence of this common misconception that the power has radial knockback is due to two factors: one, its explosion FX look like it should push everything out from the middle, but less obviously: two, if you are hovering overhead when you activate the power, the group will scatter radially. This is because the vector between you and each critter in the group collides with the plane of the ground, and vectors with slight leftwards leans (critters that were slightly to the left of your target from you) push those critters to the left, and vice versa for those on the right.
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In regards to the OP's question, I would probably never make an NRG/* build without both of them.
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Skip Power Boost and buy offensive amplifiers off the market and/or auctionhouse. I'm serious. With the -KB IO, there's no reason not to have both AoEs.
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Originally Posted by Airhammer
looks like with issue 24 I will need to pick up Power Boost and Energize so I will have to drop a power. I have one of the -KB IO's and I am debating which of the AoE's to drop.
Which one would you drop and why ?? |
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The KB is also (fairly) radial if you fire off Explosive Blast at point blank range while surrounded by enemies. That makes it annoying for some playstyles, since normally targeted AoEs are better than cones if you like getting up close and personal but for Energy Blasters it leads to a lot of scatter. |
Originally Posted by Winterminal
There it is. My Energy blaster is a hover blaster, so virtually every time I've used this power, enemies have indeed been scattered in every direction. My apologies for the misinformation! Thanks for the clarification, Hawk.
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Of course the other reason Explosive Blast feels like it causes a lot of scatter is the fact that it isn't a 100% chance of knockback, so even if you fire it from long range and knock everything in nearly the same direction you still break a clump into two groups: those that got knocked back and those that didn't. Energy Torrent is similar, but for some reason EB has always felt more "scattery" to me.
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Maybe because explosive blast can hit more targets?
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Originally Posted by StrykerX
Energy Torrent is similar, but for some reason EB has always felt more "scattery" to me.
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Energy Blast's biggest asset (IMO of course - but energy is my main blast set) is that it can do double AoE KD if you hoverblast. I would, yeah, never make an energy toon without taking both of them. Drop the T2 blast if you have to.
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I'm going to drop both because I hate myself.|
Originally Posted by Airhammer
looks like with issue 24 I will need to pick up Power Boost and Energize so I will have to drop a power. I have one of the -KB IO's and I am debating which of the AoE's to drop.
Which one would you drop and why ?? |
(That said, I did take my Energy/Energy blaster to level 47 without taking any AoE attacks.)
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Originally Posted by StrykerX
Of course the other reason Explosive Blast feels like it causes a lot of scatter is the fact that it isn't a 100% chance of knockback, so even if you fire it from long range and knock everything in nearly the same direction you still break a clump into two groups: those that got knocked back and those that didn't. Energy Torrent is similar, but for some reason EB has always felt more "scattery" to me.
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Originally Posted by Garent
Maybe because explosive blast can hit more targets?
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
looks like with issue 24 I will need to pick up Power Boost and Energize so I will have to drop a power. I have one of the -KB IO's and I am debating which of the AoE's to drop.
Which one would you drop and why ??
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