Atop the Fourth Wall #200: One More Day
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2012-07-31 09:23 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
Both OMD and OMIT took a collective dump on the Spider-Man legacy. If anything the only thing I learned from these 2 arcs is that Quesada can't write [censored] and his hands should never, ever touch a writing instrument.
Paragon Unleashed Forums
Twitter: @Alpha_Ryvius
That dude's not very funny or entertaining.
And his rage makes me feel bad to be a fan of comic books :\
Agreed. Charisma's one of his dump stats, but he knows his stuff: He just needs a voice trainer and perhaps a public speaking workshop. Every once in a while I'll watch one of his reviews to learn something interesting. An hour of his voice and mannerisms is pushing it, though, curious as I am about his thoughts on the subject matter.
Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."
I'm sort of impressed a bad comic book story is enough to trigger a one hour rage-gasm in this guy.
If only we could harness the energy nerds waste on this kind of pointless nonsense to some constructive end!
What's that?
Oh, you're curious about my post count?
I'LL HAVE YOU KNOW GAME FORUMS ARE A TOTALLY DIFFERENT THING, MMMK?!?!
=P
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
OMD did screw things up. But without it, we wouldn't have gotten the great Spider Island event (which actually got me back on the Spidey bandwagon).
Positron: "There are no bugs [in City of Heroes], just varying degrees of features."
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
OMD did screw things up. But without it, we wouldn't have gotten the great Spider Island event (which actually got me back on the Spidey bandwagon).
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Spider-Island was fun, but the recent Ends of the Earth story just dragged and didn't add much of anything.
OMD is the worst thing to ever happen to Spider-Man. I loved Mary Jane. I hated the story. I think OMIT was a little better, but suitably, I can't remember anything about it.
So what is this Atop the Fourth Wall thing? Angry Video Game Nerd for comic fans? I'll at least give it a shot when I get a chance, but an hour is asking a lot.
Thanks for eight fun years, Paragon.
Atop the Fourth Wall is basically a comic review show of the slightly less angry than the "standard" variant. Except for this one. One More Day had been the butt of so many jokes for 199 episodes and he had even said he would never review it. Linkara just really, really hates this one. Slightly more than Ultimatum and Rise of Arsenal.
It's usually bad comics, some just campy due to age, some just genuinly bad. Like Sultry Teenage Super-foxes and such. Sometimes he praises a good comic, but not too often. It also has some ongoing metastory, but you don't really need to follow that if you don't want to. If I should highlight a few non-special episodes, it'd probably be Superman: At Earth's End and the All Star Batman and Robin ones. Oh, and anything with Snowflame. And the PSA Hell reviews. Where comics try to do public service stories or hawk products to children. And fail.
By the way, what does happen in One Moment in Time?
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
No one remembers.
Thanks for eight fun years, Paragon.
Quote:
Ah, forgotten or repressed?
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Originally Posted by ChrisMoses
No one remembers.
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Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
The fact that no one remembers it is probably the best that can be said for it.
Also, that was more... enthusiastic... but the board ate my all-caps.
Thanks for eight fun years, Paragon.
Quote:
It explained why Peter and Mary Jane never got married. Again written by that talentless [censored]-hat, Joe Quesada. To me it was also a way to give Marvel editorial a very stupid way to say Spidey never made a deal with the devil to the fans that got upset, rightfully so, over Peter making the Devil's deal in One More Day. That OMIT (One Moment In Time) is how things really went down. Also the first part of OMIT pretty much implies that MJ was the one who made the deal with Mephisto, that since Peter would never make a deal with the Devil she can convince him to do so.|
Originally Posted by McNum
By the way, what does happen in One Moment in Time? |
In a nutshell Peter gets knocked unconscious when a escaped Electro lackey falls on top of his head, and causes him miss his wedding with MJ. This causes MJ to rethink whether it's a good idea or not to marry Peter, and puts the whole thing on hold. Most of it is forgettable due to Quesada's horrible writing. Civil War happens, Aunt May gets shot, Peter and MJ are again terrorized by the Electro lackey but this time he works for the Kingpin. So after putting him down, Pete goes to Dr. Strange and this time instead of doing what he did in OMD. Strange agrees to help Pete out, going to Tony Stark and Reed Richards in astral form and some how they manage to find a way to erase the fact that Peter revealed that he was Spider-Man to the world. Also before the spell completes Peter drags an unconscious MJ into the protective circle so she's unaffected by the memory wipe spell, but when she regains unconsciousness she's upset that Peter would do something like this to her, and offically breaks up and leaves Peter. End flashback, Peter and MJ sharing drinks in her apartment and both agree to just remain friends. Overall don't bother, it's bad, it's not worth it, and if anything it just makes me want to smash Quesada's hands so he can never write again.
Paragon Unleashed Forums
Twitter: @Alpha_Ryvius
Soo... they retcon the retcon?
That seems needlessly complicated. Couldn't they just have done it right the first time? Oh, right. It's Civil War era Marvel, isn't it? What was going on there in those years?
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"
Quote:
Logic error: most of the stories that have occurred post OMD/OMIT could have happened if the marriage wasn't erased. |
Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
OMD did screw things up. But without it, we wouldn't have gotten the great Spider Island event (which actually got me back on the Spidey bandwagon).
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Two main things would change:
1. Peter and Carlie never dated
2. Harry Osborn's return from the dead which is apparently credited to the Mephisto deal would not have occurred. Harry's return was justified by the change to history which makes no sense as Norman returning to mastermind the second Clone Saga was based on the fact that he was enraged over Harry's death.
OMD/OMIT dumped a load of.......tar....over 20 years of Spidey history. This shameless junkpile of an event needs to be reversed. Peter could still mess up his photo career and get his job at Horizon if the marriage were reinstated.
It is possible to restore the marriage, negate Mephisto's influence, save Aunt May and thus keep Spidey history intact, the only minor changes would be to all post OMD stories. The downside is that due to all the stories that have occurred with Harry Osborn in them, Harry's return from the dead is what I would call a "fixed" event in time, it is going to happen and negating his return would badly scramble some post OMD stories
Quote:
The whole thing was done because Joe Q. also referred to by some as Joephisto was bound and determined to end the Spiderman marriage one way or another. First they tried to "kill" MJ and the fan backlash was extreme so she was retconned back. Then came the separation which again made some negative fan backlash. They reconcile....then comes Spidey joining the Avengers, working for Stark, Civil War, the Unmasking, Aunt May getting shot.......|
Originally Posted by McNum
Soo... they retcon the retcon?
That seems needlessly complicated. Couldn't they just have done it right the first time? Oh, right. It's Civil War era Marvel, isn't it? What was going on there in those years? |
.....the final issue of OMD doesn't have JMS in the credits as writer, he had himself taken off the credits as a sign of protest over the whole thing and because his idea would have been to undo the death of Gwen Stacy, thus undoing the marriage.......
I watched all of this and hadn't read OMD or OMIT, so I had no biases and such. I think Linkara needs to tone down the shouting a lot, because when he does make a point, he explains his reasonings, and very coherently at that.
I also agree with his two points; you can't endlessly keep Peter Parker as a teenager/man-child. He can still be jokey and a punster and be well....Spider-Man whilst being married and even eventually fathering a daughter. It's as if Spider-Man is a metaphor for a male midlife crisis or something. 'You can't go back, you can never go back!'
Quesada is a horrible, horrible writer. Linkara didn't have to sell me, I was looking at and reading the panels as he went through the issues. How this guy replaced people like Jim Shooter is beyond me. But then this is the same industry that's supported Liefeld and Didio.
My only question is have they gotten the pair back together or are fans still disgruntling for change? I'm not sure it matters seeing as they reboot the Marvel and DC Universes every other calendar year now, but I am curious.
S.
Part of Sister Flame's Clickey-Clack Posse
Quote:
That...just sounds godawful stupid.
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Originally Posted by Unknown_User
It explained why Peter and Mary Jane never got married. Again written by that talentless [censored]-hat, Joe Quesada. To me it was also a way to give Marvel editorial a very stupid way to say Spidey never made a deal with the devil to the fans that got upset, rightfully so, over Peter making the Devil's deal in One More Day. That OMIT (One Moment In Time) is how things really went down. Also the first part of OMIT pretty much implies that MJ was the one who made the deal with Mephisto, that since Peter would never make a deal with the Devil she can convince him to do so.
In a nutshell Peter gets knocked unconscious when a escaped Electro lackey falls on top of his head, and causes him miss his wedding with MJ. This causes MJ to rethink whether it's a good idea or not to marry Peter, and puts the whole thing on hold. Most of it is forgettable due to Quesada's horrible writing. Civil War happens, Aunt May gets shot, Peter and MJ are again terrorized by the Electro lackey but this time he works for the Kingpin. So after putting him down, Pete goes to Dr. Strange and this time instead of doing what he did in OMD. Strange agrees to help Pete out, going to Tony Stark and Reed Richards in astral form and some how they manage to find a way to erase the fact that Peter revealed that he was Spider-Man to the world. Also before the spell completes Peter drags an unconscious MJ into the protective circle so she's unaffected by the memory wipe spell, but when she regains unconsciousness she's upset that Peter would do something like this to her, and offically breaks up and leaves Peter. End flashback, Peter and MJ sharing drinks in her apartment and both agree to just remain friends. Overall don't bother, it's bad, it's not worth it, and if anything it just makes me want to smash Quesada's hands so he can never write again. |
"I have something to say! It's better to burn out then to fade away!"
Quote:
They're still apart. MJ still appears like once every 20 issues, and each time it feels like she's only there to tease fans about "what was." Her entire character has been dwindled down into a symbol for regret; in the comics that they never went through with the marriage. In the eyes of the fans that Joey Q. holds such sway over the character.
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Originally Posted by SuperOz
I watched all of this and hadn't read OMD or OMIT, so I had no biases and such. I think Linkara needs to tone down the shouting a lot, because when he does make a point, he explains his reasonings, and very coherently at that.
I also agree with his two points; you can't endlessly keep Peter Parker as a teenager/man-child. He can still be jokey and a punster and be well....Spider-Man whilst being married and even eventually fathering a daughter. It's as if Spider-Man is a metaphor for a male midlife crisis or something. 'You can't go back, you can never go back!' Quesada is a horrible, horrible writer. Linkara didn't have to sell me, I was looking at and reading the panels as he went through the issues. How this guy replaced people like Jim Shooter is beyond me. But then this is the same industry that's supported Liefeld and Didio. My only question is have they gotten the pair back together or are fans still disgruntling for change? I'm not sure it matters seeing as they reboot the Marvel and DC Universes every other calendar year now, but I am curious. S. |
Thanks for eight fun years, Paragon.
What's sad is Joe Q doesn't want Spidey to move on at all.
I've always prefered the idea of Spidey with Felicia, but MJ is a close second.
Not only that, ending the marriage the way they did was the worst idea ever. A simple divorce would of been better (and I say that as someone who hates divorce stories).
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Quote:
Bull! You're trying to tell me there's NO way that Spider Island could have happened without OMD?|
Originally Posted by Goliath Bird Eater
OMD did screw things up. But without it, we wouldn't have gotten the great Spider Island event (which actually got me back on the Spidey bandwagon).
|
Seriously?
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Quote:
Basically Spider-Man is now Charlie Brown. Complete with full regret about "the little red-haired girl".
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Originally Posted by ChrisMoses
They're still apart. MJ still appears like once every 20 issues, and each time it feels like she's only there to tease fans about "what was." Her entire character has been dwindled down into a symbol for regret; in the comics that they never went through with the marriage. In the eyes of the fans that Joey Q. holds such sway over the character.
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Quote:
Its stupider than it sounds in summary form.
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
That...just sounds godawful stupid.
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In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
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Marvel should just retcon the entirety of Spider-Man history and start over.
You only fail if you give up. - Dana Scully
Time Jesum Transeuntum Et Non Riverentum - Nick Cave
We're not just destroyers, at the same time we can be saviors. - Allen Walker
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They should retcon Quesada and spend the next ten years publishing the alternate history version of their comics if he hadn't tampered with their stories.
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Originally Posted by Sevenpenny
Marvel should just retcon the entirety of Spider-Man history and start over.
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[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
Unfortunately it was the Daredevil movie that put it best.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
They should retcon Quesada and spend the next ten years publishing the alternate history version of their comics if he hadn't tampered with their stories.
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Jose Quesada.
.....
The rest of Jose Quesada.
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Link
Bring popcorn, it's over an hour long.
Apart from the extended intro and ending, it's a wall to wall brutal, scathing, and hilarious review of that infamous Spider-Man story. This is pretty much AT4W at its greatest, so much concentrated and justified hate is rare to see, Linkara is really outdoing himself here.
I'll admit, I never read OMD, but wow... just wow. For those of you who have watched it, is that really how it goes? No exaggerations or omissions to make the review funnier? Is that really One More Day?
I'm beginning to understand the hate...
Also points for the brutal teardown of Peter Parker's character, both in OMD and in general.
Aegis Rose, Forcefield/Energy Defender - Freedom
"Bubble up for safety!"