So, no fire/rad/fire at the def cap?

Title says it. Since my elec/elec/mu scrapper didn't make the cut I was looking at Fire/Rad/Fire (I like themes). Been toying with it in MIDS for a few hours, and can't seem to find a build that satisfies my need to be at the def cap while retaining it's functionality as a dps controller. Anyone have any builds or any advice? I'm willing to accept a drop in DPS in exchange for a gain in def, but my MIDSfu is weak, evidently, either that or I'm trying to force the powerset combination to do something it's just not going to do. I hate having ideas that sound thematically fun and then ending up having to scrap them because they can't survive.

In the immortal words of Mick Jagger, "You can't always get what you want." I certainly have not worked out every possible permutation of IO sets and powers for a Fire/Rad/Fire, but I strongly suspect that to reach the soft cap on S/L defense who is not otherwise gimped, you will need to use the Earth or Ice APP or the Mace PPP for the additional S/L defense from the shields. (Mace also gives Energy Def, too.)

You didn't really explain, when you said "def cap" if you mean for all defense, positional defense, typed defense or one type of defense. And frankly, Controllers should be able to survive most situations without Defense through the use of controls, debuffs and buffs. Of my 14 or so level 50 controllers, only 2 of them have S/L defenses at "cap" (using either Ice or Earth armor), and they all survive quite well.

Pretty much what Local Man said.

If you can get a decent amount of Ranged to offset enemies who refuse to close, and a decent amount of S/L or Melee to keep you upright until your controls take hold, you're good.

And, for the unusual circumstances where even that isn't sufficient, this is where Incarnates comes in.

Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

Well dern. Thanks for your replies guys, guess that's a scrap then.

I've never understood this def cap approach, been playing over 7 years now and not on 1 of my alts (49x50's) have I even bothered to attempt to soft cap them, not once have any of my toons not been able to pull their own weight. I believe people try to make this game more complicated than it actually is, it is quite amusing later on in incarnate content how def seems to take a nose dive and quite a few people struggle to cope without their "soft cap".

Is the soft cap on Def 40%?, what if I only have 38%, does it make much difference, if it does I've never noticed it.

http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html

Explains what happens in pretty good detail. If any of those 50's are a force field defender (or a new time whatever), or super reflexes/shields/energy AR you should notice what happens.

You can cap ranged defense (that's what I did) pretty easily and then jump/run/fly a short distance away if things start to go badly. Those immobilized and held bad guys won't be able to hit you because... actually because they're immobilzed and held!

And even if they can still attack they're debuffed to heck with radiation debuffs...

And anything that might still attack you is probably going, "OMG GET THE BURNING MONKIES OFF ME"

I'm with local man on this. If you use your controls right then you have 100% defense to all positions against most enemies!

Yeah have seen all that stuff many times before, just wondered what was so great about soft capping def, I pretty much rely on getting a medium amount of def, regen and resistance and works far better than most soft capped def alts.

With the new incarnate content I seem to be well over performing soft capped def players.

My Dark/Dark/Soul basically ignores DEF, even at level 50...between Shadow Fall, Dark Embrace, and you know, being a Controller, I don't really worry about it too much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EarthWyrm But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.

To the OP, you should post your build for review. I'm not sure what your numbers on the toon are, but remember you have an auto -To Hit power (-25% base) in your arsenal.

IMO -To Hit is just as good as defense, especially on a toon that has no defense debuff resistance. At least that's the philosophy I use on my dozens of support toons and one Staff/Energy Aura Brute.

OP,

I played my Fire/Rad back up to 50 on SOs, so any kind of ranged capping is more or less totally extraneous. Still, if you wanted a perma-hasten Fire/Rad/Fire at the ranged defense cap, it can be done. Here is one that is at 44%. It does use 10 enhancement boosters on the 2 Hasten slots, and it does use the gladiator 3% defense PVP IO, and it uses Will of the Controller with 6 catalysts, and it is otherwise expensive as well. But if you were committed to just doing a cool build that you enjoy with a max level Fire/Rad/Fire controller, you can.

You can do even better than the build below, certainly. I could put the purple set in Fireball. I could use 15 enhancement boosters to boost the first 3 slots in Fire Blast so that I could move a slot to super speed and pick up 1.25% more ranged def to hit the cap. Etc, etc. You can always make a build more suited to your goals. But here is a build that is a good first (expensive) stab at hitting the ranged def cap without sacrificing much if anything (other than time and influence). If you also use Smoke and Radiation Infection (which are in the build) then you can be even harder to hit.

Whatever you decide to do, a Fire/Rad controller is a joyful build. Have fun!

Lewis

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.958
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Festive: Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Emission
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Fire Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Char -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(3), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(3), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(5)
Level 1: Radiant Aura -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(34), Numna-Heal/Rchg(34), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Numna-Heal(46), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(46)
Level 2: Fire Cages -- TotHntr-Acc/Rchg(A), TotHntr-EndRdx/Immob(11), TotHntr-Acc/EndRdx(43), TotHntr-Immob/Acc(43), TotHntr-Acc/Immob/Rchg(43), TotHntr-Dam%(45)
Level 4: Radiation Infection -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb(A), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(5), DarkWD-Rchg/EndRdx(7), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(7)
Level 6: Accelerate Metabolism -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(25), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(25), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(37), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(37), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(40)
Level 8: Hot Feet -- M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(A), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11)
Level 10: Enervating Field -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Flashfire -- SWotController-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SWotController-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(13), SWotController-EndRdx/Rchg(13), SWotController-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(15), SWotController-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(15), SWotController-Rchg/Dmg%(17)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 16: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(17)
Level 18: Cinders -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(19), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(19), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(21)
Level 20: Lingering Radiation -- P'ngTtl-Acc/Slow(A), P'ngTtl-Dmg/Slow(21), P'ngTtl-Acc/EndRdx(23), P'ngTtl-Rng/Slow(46), P'ngTtl-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(48), P'ngTtl--Rchg%(50)
Level 22: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 24: Smoke -- ToHitDeb-I(A)
Level 26: Bonfire -- Dmg-I(A), Dmg-I(27), OvForce-Dam/KB(27)
Level 28: Choking Cloud -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(29), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(29), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(31), EoCur-EndRdx/Hold(31), EndRdx-I(31)
Level 30: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 32: Fire Imps -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(33), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(33), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(40), ExRmnt-+Res(Pets)(40)
Level 35: Fire Ball -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(36), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), Posi-Dam%(37)
Level 38: EM Pulse -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(39), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(39), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(39)
Level 41: Fire Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(42), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42)
Level 44: Tough -- EndRdx-I(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(45), GA-3defTpProc(45)
Level 47: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(48), LkGmblr-Rchg+(48)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(50), LkGmblr-Rchg+(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(23)
Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon
------------

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I put bonfire in there simply because if you managed to do the summer event (I think it is still going on until July 31) and you got the Overwhelming knockdown proc, its good to put it in bonfire. Also, unlike a lot of other people, I was actually taking and using Bonfire a lot anyway, even before this proc, and usually I put damage in it, despite the fact that without the proc, it knocks everything back.

But if there is a skippable power and any bonus slots to steal from somewhere, it would be Bonfire.

Anyway, I am not 100% sure how Catalysts drop. I got all mine by buying a bunch of booster packs. But i know that you can earn them in normal game play (assuming you are VIP and can get inventions and do all the cool stuff). But on the controllers I tweaked out, I either got Will of the Controller from the booster cards or else I bought them on the market, and I used some catalysts that dropped to boost a couple of my character's Attuned sets (Will of the controller) to the higher values. Mainly, I tweaked out my Fire/Storm and Fire/Dark controllers.

Even if you dont enhance the Will of the Controller with catalysts, you are still over 40% def to ranged. Heck even without the PVP IO and with just the normal (non-superior) WotController, you'd be floating at 40%, which means if you do incarnate stuff, you could get the incarnate power that gives 5% defense for 120 seconds and recharges in the same time frame.

So there are a bunch of options. This was just a framework/first cut.

And keep in mind that smoke is about like having 6% defense if you use it. Basically, the -tohit stacks in effectiveness with having good defense. So there is a lot of wiggle room in the build for having the equivalent of softcapping.

The -tohit from Radiation Infection from Rad Emission is also a big part (though not all) of why people say def capping isnt that big a deal on a Fire/Rad.

But frankly I am with you. I like to shoot for lots of ranged defense (or even other types if I can .... Stormies and Sonic controllers are good for softcapping lots of stuff) AND THEN stack even more -tohit on top. I find it relaxing. So in a way, Fire/Rad is a good choice for you since you'll have the tools to simulate def capping (RI and smoke) while getting up to the level where you can actually slot for it and cap out without using powers (endgame).

EDIT: My tactic for Flashfire is usually only that I open with it, and then use the period where the foes are stunned to toggle on my Radiation Infection (to lower their accuracy) and then move in with Hot Feet, Containment (Fire Cages), Choking Cloud, etc. Effectively, Flashfires (or Smoke + Flashfires) is my alpha-retaliation-mitigation strategy that I use as an opener to achieve control of any fight as much as I can. Bonfire is used more to block corners, or maybe to use to damage a boss or other bad guy that is immune to knockback. Also with the Overwhelming Force proc, it can be more conveniently used as a damage source.

Hope that was helpful.

Lewis

>.> See my sig.