Manticore has always been one of my favorite of the Task Force Commander TFs. It has a good mix of defeat alls, hunts and stealthable missions. The level range is good too, so if you're exemplaring to do it you don't feel like you've lost too many powers. Overall, a solid TF.
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Now that I think about it, I hope i24 as the 'Fix Everything' issue includes making the Synapse TF bearable.
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I still don't see the reason to complain about Synapse. Still gets zipped through and it's - well, just not all that hard.
I can kind of get complaining about Numina - mostly due to all the different things we have now that can kick off zone events and screw over the line of hunts. I think we're at the point where that needs to just be instanced. But synapse - eh. I don't think it's all that bad.
Manticore's problem is that nothing is resolved by the end, you go to take down the Countess, only to fight her freaking bodyguard who tells you to piss off and that's the end of it.
plus, defeat alls are never fun.
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Am intrigued by the instanced idea and how that would be done.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I still don't see the reason to complain about Synapse. Still gets zipped through and it's - well, just not all that hard.
I can kind of get complaining about Numina - mostly due to all the different things we have now that can kick off zone events and screw over the line of hunts. I think we're at the point where that needs to just be instanced. But synapse - eh. I don't think it's all that bad. |
Also, I like Synapse. It keeps me busy and off the streets.
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Manticore:
1. Change Kill-Alls to just the mission objective.
2. Change the Hopkins fight to include EB ambushes by all the named Crey lieutenants. You know, so that it's not like we're fighting a puny boss at the end.
3. fixt
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Of the original 6 TFs, Manticore is probably my favorite to play. My complaint with Manticore isn't the game play, it's the story. The game play is generally fast moving, with just enough defeat alls to net everyone some XP while many of the missions are still very stealthable.
The story, on the other hand, is rather underwhelming. The whole thing is a general fishing expedition by Manticore that ends with you beating up Countess Crey's favorite flunky. There are plenty of clues that Crey is dastardly and bad, but there's no imminent evil plot to thwart. Storywise, besides an even grumpier Manticore, is the world any better or worse off if you pack it in before the last mission rather than finish? Not really. Let's face it, the last boss is an AV level Field Agent who would be hard pressed to take down Dr. Vahzilok in a straight fight. Getting him off the streets means that you've possibly finally succeeded in personally annoying the real villain. Congratulations?
I know story doesn't matter much to some people on TFs since it's only delivered to the leader (Another I24 fix, maybe?), but besides a surly contact, there's just nothing all that memorable about this one.
EDIT: Y'know, with Manticore being upgraded with even MORE dark and angst is SSA1, perhaps this should become a true Vigilante TF. Forget evidence, you're shutting this operation down.
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Honestly I feel completely the opposite. Numina I find pretty easy to zip past. The first couple missions are pretty easy to stealth and then since pretty much every hunt is against grey cons you just split up the party, you can knock through them all in a few minutes, then the last 2 instances which are easy. The zone events are the only problem and they're not that frequent. |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I still don't see the reason to complain about Synapse. Still gets zipped through and it's - well, just not all that hard.
I can kind of get complaining about Numina - mostly due to all the different things we have now that can kick off zone events and screw over the line of hunts. I think we're at the point where that needs to just be instanced. But synapse - eh. I don't think it's all that bad. |
And no one is saying Synapse is -hard-, it's simply that it's extremely tedious. "Zipping" through most of the other TFs means cutting them down to like 30-50 minutes, depending. 'Zipping' Synapse still averages 90 minutes.
As for Manti, yeah. Mechanically I don't have any problem with it, it's got a pretty decent mix of missions and actually feels like I have to run around to do different objectives without tossing the same thing at me. I do agree though that storywise it feels like kind of a failure on the heroes part to really accomplish anything.
Sorry but I think good old Dr Q needs a revamp before any of them.
It didn't just get the title 'worst taskforce in city of heroes' for no reason, it earned that damn title.
When four hours is considered a 'good run' you know something ain't right.
Atleast Synapse will take you...what...hour and a half at most?
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Numina needs a complete rewrite of the TF. It was created to be a "grand farewell tour" of all the zones that existed in the then-gameworld when you hit level cap at 40. Now, not only is the level cap higher, zones have been repurposed and just removed from the hunt.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I can kind of get complaining about Numina - mostly due to all the different things we have now that can kick off zone events and screw over the line of hunts. I think we're at the point where that needs to just be instanced. But synapse - eh. I don't think it's all that bad.
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The only think I like about Numina conceptually is a very superhero group comic concept - "Bad things are happening all over the city, You two, go there. You two, go there, you two, come with me". That's proven difficult/impossible to do with the current game engine, which is a pity. And the concept isn't worth the obsolete time-wasting hunt.
So forget the various group red herrings. This is the Devouring Earth task force. Two or three missions piecing together the plot, one mission to almost stop the devouring earth, and the finale.
Synapse and Citadel - would love to see a complete rewrite of them, but simple blue pencil work would make them far better. "There are three missions where the players do the same damn thing in a row. Cut it to one mission. These missions are defeat all without any story reason, make them final goal only. This mission does have a story reason, make it a smallish map."
As for Manticore - I enjoy it mechanically, but yeah, it's kind of a weak story. The problem is that it's 30-35, and 40-45 is where Crey is completely exposed as yup, corrupt from the top down, and you take down the countess. If the Manticore TF proves the Countess is a crook and locks her up, the arc 10 levels later becomes anti-climatic.
So for a story instead, make it one of the "crey scientists get in over their head." They've been playing with arraknoid DNA and working on improving cloning techniques (never revealed in the TF what the cloning might be used for), create a monster that must be stopped - and once it's down, Hopkins shows up, "You've saved the world, 'heroes', but nobody can know what happened here."
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What is this...I don't even.... |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I still don't see the reason to complain about Synapse. Still gets zipped through and it's - well, just not all that hard.
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| I think we're at the point where that needs to just be instanced. |
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I agree and I still think it holds up. Please don't change the only one of the original Freedom Phalanx TFs I actually like. |
Originally Posted by GadgetDon
Numina needs a complete rewrite of the TF. It was created to be a "grand farewell tour" of all the zones that existed in the then-gameworld when you hit level cap at 40. Now, not only is the level cap higher, zones have been repurposed and just removed from the hunt.
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| So forget the various group red herrings. This is the Devouring Earth task force. Two or three missions piecing together the plot, one mission to almost stop the devouring earth, and the finale. |
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| Synapse and Citadel - would love to see a complete rewrite of them, but simple blue pencil work would make them far better. "There are three missions where the players do the same damn thing in a row. Cut it to one mission. These missions are defeat all without any story reason, make them final goal only. This mission does have a story reason, make it a smallish map." |
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Well here's how I'd do it as an instanced mission. Make a new map that has a bunch of small areas based on each of the city areas that you visit and contains a 2-3 spawns of the appropriate enemy types with a named boss (scaled up to level 40 for the groups that do go that high). You kill the spawns and then click on a Longbow Helicopter (or something) to get transported to the next section of the mission. Eventually you exit the mission in Eden. Basically keep the theme of traveling about the city fighting different groups but eliminate the running about and make it so that the enemies aren't all horribly under-level.|
Originally Posted by MisterMagpie
Am intrigued by the instanced idea and how that would be done.
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So it's all one mission with lots of different map sections (sort of like the second mission in Admiral Sutter or Apex).
Having been running far more than my share of TFs lately, I see nothing to admire in the old stuff. They're uniformly bland, monotonous & soporific when they aren't being tooth-grindingly aggravating and tedious. They're a lot like the old story arcs- lots of pointless travel, lots of samey-same missions on samey-same maps, street hunts, kill alls.
I ran a Manticore a while back and there was nothing to distinguish it from running a string of random newspaper missions, except it took longer, required leaving the zone & included a number of ridiculous street hunts.
Being 'less awful' than some others is no recommendation...all the Phalanx TFs badly need makeovers along the Positron line.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I still don't see the reason to complain about Synapse. Still gets zipped through
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Manticore's actually my least favorite of the FP TFs. Hopkins? Seriously? Some bald bodyguard comes out of no where and thinks he's the **** and challenges us to a fight. And when we do beat him, awesome, you beat up some random bodyguard. Countess Crey and her board of executives still exist, and you didn't really stop any major plots of Crey's. At least all the other TFs have a pay off. This one has none. It's anti climactic.
I think Numina offers a pretty awesome opportunity for a rewrite. If the Numina TF picked up the mechanics used in newer pieces like Death from Below, it would be possible to cycle the players through a series of fights where the player's level is changing, within an instance. You'd have to explain "why" this is happening but some made up thing about ghost magic or time warps would suffice. The importance is maintaining the "fight everything" theme, IMO.
Maybe have us fight some battles in one of those cool looking "floorless" rooms used within a few of the iTrials.
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I have to admit, that's one of the things I *like* about it. Sure, you don't get XP/drops/etc from them... but having my fairly low-damage Electric defender AOE a pile of Sky Raiders (for instance) and *have them actually die in one hit* is fun. >.>
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
... and make it so that the enemies aren't all horribly under-level..
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You get two, right up front, and that's it.
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Originally Posted by DLancer
Manticore's problem is that nothing is resolved by the end, you go to take down the Countess, only to fight her freaking bodyguard who tells you to piss off and that's the end of it.
plus, defeat alls are never fun. |
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"Hard" is not the problem. The problem is, it's an extremely tedious string of kill-all missions against an annoying faction (seriously, end drain and/or mez effects baked into every single enemy attack is NEVER enjoyable). If the constant aggravation of fighting clockwork doesn't render you catatonic, the sheer length and lack of variety of the TF will knock you right out.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I still don't see the reason to complain about Synapse. Still gets zipped through and it's - well, just not all that hard.
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I'm dead serious. I can count on one hand the number of times I've come close to falling asleep while playing any console or computer game. My last Synapse run was one of those times.
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I respectfully disagree, sir.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I ran a Manticore a while back and there was nothing to distinguish it from running a string of random newspaper missions, except it took longer, required leaving the zone & included a number of ridiculous street hunts.
Being 'less awful' than some others is no recommendation...all the Phalanx TFs badly need makeovers along the Positron line. |
I concede that it is similar to running a string of random newspaper missions.
I concede that it takes longer, but a little over an hour is reasonable for a task force.
I concede that it requires leaving the zone, but I do not see that as being an issue in a task force, especially for characters of that level.
I concede that it includes a number of street hunts, I believe that number is 1.
I further concede that "fun" is a subset of "less awful" compared to things that are not fun.
But I return to my main point that it is fun.
I enjoy running a string of random newspaper missions on a team. I suspect that a large number of players do as well, since I join them in teams doing it.
I therefore put it to you, sir -
are you saying that doing a string of random newspaper missions for an hour is not fun?
are you saying that having to switch zones eliminates the fun?
are you saying that having to defeat 25 Crey in a zone is not fun and eliminates the fun?
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Cool story
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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
I respectfully disagree, sir.
I concede that it is similar to running a string of random newspaper missions. I concede that it takes longer, but a little over an hour is reasonable for a task force. I concede that it requires leaving the zone, but I do not see that as being an issue in a task force, especially for characters of that level. I concede that it includes a number of street hunts, I believe that number is 1. I further concede that "fun" is a subset of "less awful" compared to things that are not fun. But I return to my main point that it is fun. I enjoy running a string of random newspaper missions on a team. I suspect that a large number of players do as well, since I join them in teams doing it. I therefore put it to you, sir - are you saying that doing a string of random newspaper missions for an hour is not fun? are you saying that having to switch zones eliminates the fun? are you saying that having to defeat 25 Crey in a zone is not fun and eliminates the fun? I give the remainder of my time to the goat from the nether |
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Oh! And like the DiB! Yeah, I can see that working out pretty well and being cool.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Well here's how I'd do it as an instanced mission. Make a new map that has a bunch of small areas based on each of the city areas that you visit and contains a 2-3 spawns of the appropriate enemy types with a named boss (scaled up to level 40 for the groups that do go that high). You kill the spawns and then click on a Longbow Helicopter (or something) to get transported to the next section of the mission. Eventually you exit the mission in Eden. Basically keep the theme of traveling about the city fighting different groups but eliminate the running about and make it so that the enemies aren't all horribly under-level.
So it's all one mission with lots of different map sections (sort of like the second mission in Admiral Sutter or Apex). |
In the room the women come and go
Talking of Michelangelo.
I like Synapse but I have to admit I once felt asleep doing it. Only time it ever happened to me while playing video games... Dozing off, sure, but outright falling sleep? Only Synapse. 
Going through the tf's. After the new ones, Synapse is horrible, Citadel is bad.
But Manticore was actually fun. A few defeat alls, then we could just hunt down the boss. Took 1:07 to do, not bad. It's all crey but I hadn't fought them in awhile so it was fine.
Definitely put Manticore last on the list to revamp.