What's the attraction to these new powerset gimmicks?

Just like the title says.

I can understand a lot of folks wanting to try something new. Sure, I get that.

But why these gimmicks?

Street Justice has them
Dual Blades
Titan Weapons

and now Water Blast.

Why? I don't want my attack chain to be "encouraged" in one way, shape or form because of some added benefit. I want to attack with a specific power because it might do a sliver of damage and I don't want to waste the end on the attack that the game has circled for me to use next.

I don't want to have to rely on Momentum to get a decent animation time.

What's the advantage in having these "gimmicks" in a powerset? They are "different", but I don't see the point in having them.

What's wrong with just leaving the gimmicks out and having the powerset dish out that much more damage?

Am I missing something?
If the average blaster dishes out 100 pts of damage on a +2 Boss, does the water blaster dish out more than 120-125 pts because of the gimmick?

The different mechanics of different sets help make the sets different. If you don't like them, that's fine; there are sets that don't have such mechanics. Personally, I enjoy the "gimmicks" of some sets, but not others. It's largely a matter of taste.

No, a Water Blaster doesn't do more damage just because he has Tidal Power. He does roughly comparable damage, but does it in a different way.

By the way, "I don't like the game telling me what to do" is, IMO, an unnecessarily negative way to look at it. Orange rings are information, not instruction. More "I give a bonus at the moment, just FYI", than "Use me, dummy!" Sometimes, smart play means ignoring the orange ring, just as sometimes, smart play means not using your best attack the instant it recharges.

1. because it's fun
2. Because it's unique from other powers
3. Because it's unique from other powers in a way that isn't just "MOAR DEF/DAM/AoE!"
4. Because it goes with the idea of the set
5. Because having a game-play feature that reflects the nature of your character's abilities can be more immersive
6. Because there's only so many ways to put together the various things in a power(damage, Endurance, Recharge, e.t.c.), particularly across the whole set, while still being balanced, before things get samey and thus defeating the purpose of making a new set at all
7. It's fun.

I had a similar conversation with a friend about this the other day. And I was talknig about my thread, were I suggested updates to a number of Old powersets, to make em shiny and new again.

I am also quite sure that you, or response very like this one..promptly shot ALL my ideas down..in spite of the one very key point I was saying. NONE of them would require you to play any different. But oh no, these people didn't want gimmicks. I mean..it IS hard to could to three, then use a big attack..

Sure, the new sets do have gimmicks. Titan Weapons..more a mechanical gimmick than a gimmick gimmick, because the momentum is so important and the set would just be Mace Mk2 without it. But the others..yeah, you are right, they have 'gimmicks.'

Looking at those sets, dual blades has far and away (to me) the worst and most restrictive combo system. And you know..it IS the first gimmick set. Man, damn them for not getting things perfect first time! Street Justice is just..perfect to me. You could play the whole time without even bothering about the combos.

The only set that really locks you into attack patterns in DB..and guess what..you can just play without the combos. Tricky stuff. If you dont want to rely on Momentum..wtf are you playing TW for?

They are different, and fun to a LOT of people. Try comparing Ice Blast to Water. Oh no, water is gimmicky..cant play that. If you want older, more boring (again, subjective) go play them.

To bring up a final point..ALL sets already have 'gimmicks' Yeah, its true. Even old ones. Lets take fire blast. See alll that dot, that is part of it being such a great damage set? That's right, a gimmick! So sorry, you cant play FB now. Rad blast, -def, gimmick, dark..-to hit, gimmick. See where this is going?

Even differences in sets can be called a gimmick. Oh, willpower has RttC, what a gimmick! It would suck without that, I dont like them forcing me into relying on regen.

I am trying not to be sarcastic. Wait, no Im not. I just dont get complaining about teh devs trying something different. If no sets had a gimmick, nothing would be different, and we would have 5 sets with EXACTLY the same powers pet AT (see the patron powers..shield, immob, blast, pet...real creative).

...I'm still trying to figure out where this ties into badges in some way...

lol, good question Eric

It's nice that they're trying new things.

On that same token, it feels like the same new things: use your attack chain to stack three of the set's named mechanic which will power up your finishing move.

In much the same way that a scrapper or tanker doesn't have to build up fury or stack assassin's focus in order to do better damage, it's nice that the old sets didn't have to build combos or tidal powers or such; the damage scrappers/tankers do with a tier nine is the same for an opening attack as it is for a finishing blow as it is for an insert attack.

This is both a gift and a curse, in its own ways.

They are there cause the dev's ran out of creativity and mezz types to tie to attacks.

Pretty over it myself. The 3 form toggles and the 3 "combo" levels.

Basically, flat attack sets have, essentially, been done to death. They've pretty much covered the gamut of typed attacks. And the main gimmick for them is "Discover which attack chain yields maximum damage for you".

Now they're venturing into attack sets where powers are having "cumulative" effects beyond simply raw damage (like Momentum).

This is a Good Thing™. As it helps differentiate the playstyles of these powers moreso than:

Recharge = X so Attacks A, C, D, and F will yield maximum damage of Z

Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.

It's better than every powerset having essentially all the same powers with the exact same stats and abilities with only a visual distinction between them. While personally, I'm not the hugest fan of combos and the like, it IS a far more engaging play-style, and I can appreciate from a development standpoint wanting every set to do something different. Otherwise, staff fighting would just look like this:

Low damage strike
Medium damage strike
Medium damage strike
Taunt
Build Up
AoE
High damage strike
High damage strike
Another AoE

There'd be no reason to take it over Broadsword, Mace, or Axe unless OMG you REAAALLY wanted to poke people with a stick instead of -realistically- a much more effective weapon. And from a development standpoint, that's BORING. There'd be nothing for the powers team to do, just import the data from another powerset, then have the animation guys do some tweaking, and BAM, done. Sounds pretty lazy to me!

On one hand, the gimmicks don't bother me because I honestly don't care one way or the other. On the other hand, I can see that it would be frustrating if say you don't like Momentum but really want to play a character with a two handed weapon.

Basically, the gimmicks are a mix of good and bad. Good in that it breaks up the monotony some people see with the powers. Bad in that it sets a type of playstyle that may not mesh with every player who wants to utilize the concept. Even then, the only ones that aren't as ignorable as the Dual Blades Combos and Titan Weapons Momentum. Stuff like Tidal Power and Finishers are more like icing on the cake in that you'll probably achieve it without doing anything different than what you would with say Fire Blast or Super Strength.

Personally, I would've preferred them to leave the 'gimmicks' outside of the sets themselves and have them set up as a separate system altogether (usable with any set) so that players could create their own combos, stances, etc... if so inclined.

That way all sets could be even more potentially unique, new and further tailored to individual tastes.

Right but there's only so many sways to swap out area of effect, damage type, and a secondary effect.

And the gimmicks mean that the dev team is having to innovate and think up news ways to do things. For instance, it's because of Titan Weapons momentum mechanics that we got the stalker changes and the upcoming snipe changes. Before they came up with that mechanic there were no powers in the game that altered their effect based on a contextual state. It was all "Power does A". NOW we've got "Power does A, unless X is in effect, then it does B".

Or like the Keyes Island trial's disintegration mechanic led to beam rifle and time manipulation.

The gimmicks are coming in part to help differentiate a set and because new mechanics mean innovation that can lead to other areas of the game.

Viva diversity indeed.

I actually like Yogi Bare's suggestion, because that encourages the most options. What do you say to someone who wants a "plain vanilla" attack set and wants to use a staff?