So how do blasters feel about nukes going from scale 6.0 dmg to scale 4.0?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2012-07-12 12:34 in Blasters
Quote:
Completely irrelevant as you'll be lucky to be able to get enough for a MoM trail on some servers.|
Originally Posted by Rakeeb
Bring 12 Blasters into the MoM iTrial, let me know how you do.
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On MOST servers I'd argue people just take what's there and go. The longer you wait for the perfect team, the longer it is before you start and the more likely it is that you don't form some trials EVER on some servers.
In fact for anyone trying to form a trial that way I avoid them like the plague as I don't like to have my playtime wasted by such idiocy.
Most trial leaders take what's there on Pocket D or RWZ and start.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
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Depends on the trial and level of skill of the players in my experience.|
Originally Posted by Garent
My experience shows that smaller trials do better as well.
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Which goes back to my original point. Player skill has a larger effect on a trials success vs what you pack on the team.
You could pack a trial or team with the best powerset combos of every AT, but if the players are a pack of raging fools the trial is NOT going to succeed.
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Well, as a caveat to that, the need for skill depends on how idiot proof the trial is. If there's any kind of metric where you have to do things the right way or die (MoM being the biggest example) then yes, skill plays a big factor. |
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Depends on the trial and level of skill of the players in my experience.
Which goes back to my original point. Player skill has a larger effect on a trials success vs what you pack on the team. You could pack a trial or team with the best powerset combos of every AT, but if the players are a pack of raging fools the trial is NOT going to succeed. |
if it's just a tank and spank? Less so.
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It makes sense, you are absolutely right. Conceptually, from a storytelling perspective, it does perfect sense. However, there are many things that "make sense" that dont translate into a fun or enjoyable game.|
Originally Posted by mercykilling
Wow. Whatever happened to just playing the game and having fun?
Seems all anyone cares about any more is numbers. Minmaxed builds that can solo AV's and GM's. Crashless nukes. It -makes sense in any MMO- to have singular bad guys that can wipe whole city blocks and possibly beat assembled heroes. It -makes sense- that your super attack that you summon every ounce of energy to fire leaves you winded and unable to attack for a bit. At least, it makes sense to me. Might not to everyone, I know. Again, all the above is merely my opinion. Completely without basis in any other fact than my feelings. I do not wish to be "proven" wrong with a load of numbers, because I don't care about numbers. I care about what -I- call fun, and not what you call fun. (Insofar as my fun does not impede upon your fun)  |
Crashing nukes is one of them. Users hate them, left and right. So they are getting redesigned to be more fun. The numbers are irrelevant to you, and that's not a flaw in you, but it does exclude you from numerical discussions.
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It also makes sense that if your super attack that drains you of all strength fails to kill everything, the guy you missed with that super attack should be able to walk up to you and bash your head with a rock, or at least shoot you with his pistol and kill you dead.
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Originally Posted by mercykilling
Wow. Whatever happened to just playing the game and having fun?
Seems all anyone cares about any more is numbers. Minmaxed builds that can solo AV's and GM's. Crashless nukes. It -makes sense in any MMO- to have singular bad guys that can wipe whole city blocks and possibly beat assembled heroes. It -makes sense- that your super attack that you summon every ounce of energy to fire leaves you winded and unable to attack for a bit. At least, it makes sense to me. Might not to everyone, I know. Again, all the above is merely my opinion. Completely without basis in any other fact than my feelings. I do not wish to be "proven" wrong with a load of numbers, because I don't care about numbers. I care about what -I- call fun, and not what you call fun. (Insofar as my fun does not impede upon your fun) |
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I'm not a fan of random bonus damage. I never planned on nukes doing more than the minimum 3.0. 4.0 is a buff as far as I'm concerned. Defenders, who have less of an overkill issue than blasters or corruptors, might disagree, but as a blaster I count just guaranteed damage on a hit.
And am I okay with faster recharge, no crash, and a damage buff too? Yes.
I just hope Full Auto, Overcharge, Hail of Bullets, and Geyser aren't overlooked. I'm pretty sure they won't be. (Oh, and if the PvP values could be made less of a joke, that'd be nice, too.)
The only criticism I really have is that the nukes now just become AoE attacks, plus. Not really anything special, just more of something you already have -- especially if you have a Judgement. Not an argument against this change, mind you; they're hardly more than AoE attacks, plus, today. But if would've been nice if the devs came up with some other way for the nukes to communicate, in game terms, "this is my final ultimate attack", other than a harshly punitive self debuff.
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Re: recharge time specifics
Doubled recharges are really freakin' common. Would've expected something around 233 seconds (formula, then doubled) for a 4.0 damage, 25' radius nuke. Less is fine, though.
I think I would have preferred more choices and have it left up to the individual player. At level 32 you get a choice and which ever one you choose locks you out of the other choice for that build.
Choice 1 the change that is being made.
Choice 2 - all things as they are now on live (crash, recharge, etc.) but scale 8.0 damage.
The change takes the wind out of the sails of my Fire/Mental/Fire + Burnout nuke monster, it messes with my Energy/Energy/Force, its a definite nerf to my Sonic/Ice/Elec, Ice/Elec/Mace, and to my Kin/Ice/Primal defender.
It will be transparent to my Arch/Dev/Munitions, Arch/EM/Ice, Dark/Mental/Elec hover blaster, and to my AR/EM/Ice blaster.
It will be a great boon to my Rad/Fire/Mace, Energy/Elec/Fire, Fire/Fire/Fire, and my Fire/Energy/Ice.
Net result = meh.
The devs had the opportunity to leave the choice up to the players and let us CHOOSE FOR OURSELVES which kind of awesome to be, but fumbled the ball and limited us again.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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They fumbled the ball by not undertaking what would have been an incredibly massive code re-write that would have affected all of three ATs?
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
I think I would have preferred more choices and have it left up to the individual player. At level 32 you get a choice and which ever one you choose locks you out of the other choice for that build.
Choice 1 the change that is being made. Choice 2 - all things as they are now on live (crash, recharge, etc.) but scale 8.0 damage ... The devs had the opportunity to leave the choice up to the players and let us CHOOSE FOR OURSELVES which kind of awesome to be, but fumbled the ball and limited us again. |
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Not sure if said with straight face.
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Originally Posted by mercykilling
I care about what -I- call fun, and not what you call fun.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
It also makes sense that if your super attack that drains you of all strength fails to kill everything, the guy you missed with that super attack should be able to walk up to you and bash your head with a rock, or at least shoot you with his pistol and kill you dead.
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It would seem that after getting dead you would also stay that way.
If the 4.0 damage scale still kills them then that is GREAT. If it leaves a few and you have no crash that is GOOD.
I am not seeing an issue here unless it is the folks that would like to retain the crash and the damage scale of 6.0. In reference to that, it probably is an additional workload deal. It's possible the in company advocate of the choice option just got voted down by the majority of the team .
Hard to think that with all of those smart people there at PS that the option to choose was not discussed. I could be wrong of course.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
I am not sure if I like these changes on some of my toons, kinda concerned about Blizzard since it's a dot nuke that'll probably get worse with these changes giving time for the NPCs to run away.
I am also not sure how exactly Blizzard works, if it's also random damage like the other nukes and if it's the same damage as the others which is (IMO) also somewhat unfair since it's purely dot.
50 Ice/Ice/Force Blaster *
50 Ice/Fire/Fire Tanker
50 Kin/Sonic/Power Defender
50 Ice/Storm/Psi Controller
50 Stone/WP/Soul Brute
50 Spines/SR Stalker
Pinnacle | Virtue
@Black Heart
These changes will breathe life into Ice Blast no doubt. Blizzard is still my favorite Nuke in the game...it just makes you feel...OH so powerful.
Blizzard is a Nuke that can be a game changer...much like RoA from Archery but on a different scale.
These changes make me look at Nukes sooo differently now... It will deal crazy damage even more than before but one cannot ignore the control side of things. Now certain combos will be even more attractive.
A Cold/Psy Defender would just be easily putting out bursts of -100%+ Recharge.
Dark/Dark Corr or Fender will be dishing out bursts -100%+ -to Hit
Elec/Elec blaster will now make Elec/ Doms jealous.
Ugh! I need to save up for more slots because when this hits Mids/Live I will probably roll 2-5 new toons.
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Blizzard does more damage than other nukes. Well, except Geyser from Water Blast, and I don't know enough about Water Blast to guess what the justification for that is. Blizzard at 500 does more damage than Inferno by about 35 points, and is 195 points ahead of the other pbaoe crashing nukes. Thunderous Blast is ahead of the crashless nukes, and the crashless nukes are quite varied. Leaving aside Geyser, they range from 150 to about 220.|
Originally Posted by Z_e_r_o_NA
I am not sure if I like these changes on some of my toons, kinda concerned about Blizzard since it's a dot nuke that'll probably get worse with these changes giving time for the NPCs to run away.
I am also not sure how exactly Blizzard works, if it's also random damage like the other nukes and if it's the same damage as the others which is (IMO) also somewhat unfair since it's purely dot. |
All number are approximate because I'm too lazy to use decimals or even take notes. Taken from the game's character creator for a level 50 Blaster.
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Because why change any power when we can just keep randomly bifurcating the game? Why wouldn't they choose to do that.
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
The devs had the opportunity to leave the choice up to the players and let us CHOOSE FOR OURSELVES which kind of awesome to be, but fumbled the ball and limited us again.
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If you're talking about the Average Damage in-game, that's just a display issue. It's including all the damage ticks for 0, 1, 2, AND 3 Tidal Power, when of course the actual power will only deal the damage for whatever level of Tidal Power you're at when you activate it. At 3 TP, that's 31.28+93.84+11*10.66=242.38 damage, which is slightly more than RoA (225.2) or Overcharge (219), and slightly less than Hail of Bullets with Incendiary Ammo (254.6).
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Originally Posted by Jabbrwock
Well, except Geyser from Water Blast, and I don't know enough about Water Blast to guess what the justification for that is.
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Thunderous Blast has a Crash.
The only crashless nukes currently are Rain of Arrows, Overcharge, Hail of Bullets, Geyser and Full Auto.
I think that Rain Of Arrows wins overall...with HoB second, Full Auto third, Geyser 4th and Overcharge 5th...I probably should switch Geyser and Overcharge but I'm not a fan of overcharge.
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I think the confusion is that Thunderous Blast is a scaling crash. It wipes out your recovery every time, but the actual endurance drain is based on the number of targets, so if you just use it on 1 target it doesn't seem like there's a crash. |
Originally Posted by Tater Todd
Thunderous Blast has a Crash.
The only crashless nukes currently are Rain of Arrows, Overcharge, Hail of Bullets, Geyser and Full Auto. I think that Rain Of Arrows wins overall...with HoB second, Full Auto third, Geyser 4th and Overcharge 5th...I probably should switch Geyser and Overcharge but I'm not a fan of overcharge. |
But yeah, it definitely has a crash. I can't wait to get to use it as an actual AOE now.
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Yeah, I found that out only a year ago : /...it's a weird Nuke no doubt. This Nuke change is such a big deal. I may not be a Vet but this gives me fuel for my "I remember when discussions" lol|
Originally Posted by Agent White
I think the confusion is that Thunderous Blast is a scaling crash. It wipes out your recovery every time, but the actual endurance drain is based on the number of targets, so if you just use it on 1 target it doesn't seem like there's a crash.
But yeah, it definitely has a crash. I can't wait to get to use it as an actual AOE now. |
.I better get my rocking chair ready!
Extreme burst AOE damage no longer hindering what is supposed to be the king/queen of damage sounds like a solid upgrade to me.
Sets like Shield, Elec Melee, Achery, Dual Pistols, etc have pretty much been chuckling in the face of crashing nukes for a while, and finally whenever everyone got access to judgement it just got silly.
Anyone who wants the old nukes back should swap out those blues they've been carrying and pop a few reds before nuking now.
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Pretty much this.
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Originally Posted by MrLiberty
Anyone who wants the old nukes back should swap out those blues they've been carrying and pop a few reds before nuking now. |
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
Personally I have mixed feelings about this and the other blaster changes. While I am for the most part happy with them, I am a bit disappointed at how few changes affect just blasters, and while being able to use my nukes more often will be nice, I'll miss aim+bu+nuke+blue (or getting lucky with PS proc) and consume wiping out whole groups on my elec/fire. Guess I'll just take solace that I can switch the blue+consume for ball lightning and FSC for cleanup and that devices, energy and ice will be more appealing for more primaries (for me anyway).
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Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
That...was a Herocon 09 exclusive easter egg. The powerset will not have doves associated with it.
Namely because you guys would want to color tint the damn doves, or make them hawks/ravens/flying sharks/etc and that's just a headache I do...not...want...to deal with. |
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What group is that wiping out now that it won't in I24?
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Originally Posted by Come Undone
while being able to use my nukes more often will be nice, I'll miss aim+bu+nuke+blue (or getting lucky with PS proc) and consume wiping out whole groups on my elec/fire.
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I like the overall idea, but I can see how it can be problematic to implement. How about this little modification?|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Choice 1 the change that is being made.
Choice 2 - all things as they are now on live (crash, recharge, etc.) but scale 8.0 damage. |
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user HP > (arbitrary)%: the change that is being made. user HP |
Be careful about extreme high damage scales, because these favor defenders over blasters due to overkill. Balance it with extreme debuff scales like even moar -tohit on Blackstar, as these favor blasters over defenders for similar reasons.
Also, one more refinement I'd make to the desperation-style crashing nuke version, to give it that important "I need it now!" factor, have it "include" a BU/Aim buff by setting its damage scale very high but ignore outside buffs.
Maybe. Oh, I hate the idea of making things unbuffable. Especially because that also makes things undebuffable. But I can't think of any other way to make a desperation attack able to work at maximum efficiency at any given instant without waiting for buffs to recharge and stars to align. Help?
My experience shows that smaller trials do better as well.