So how do blasters feel about nukes going from scale 6.0 dmg to scale 4.0?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2012-07-12 12:34 in Blasters
Now you guys should post your reaction to using Blizzard for the first time lol.
I would, but I've never used Blizzard.
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Originally Posted by Mad Grim
I would, but I've never used Blizzard.
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Grim! Dude/Dude-det! You need to try one out in Beta!
After you try Blizzard Combine Ice Storm with it! Add Sleet or Freezing rain as well if you want to show off.
Oh no, the lolcat compels me.
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Also if you look at Ice Blast's Blizzard attack it does the same amount of damage across all 3 Archetypes (Blasters, Defenders, and Corruptors). Because of this Blizzard actually does more damage on corruptors due to Scourge. Why do you think all the villians back in the day farmed with Ice/Kins?
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Ok, I'll bite. HOW do Defenders and Corruptors benefit more? Blaster nukes do more raw damage and since the main methods Blasters have for increasing their damage are self buffs (Aim and Build Up) they can maximize it for use in an Alpha Strike whereas Defenders and Corruptors are more reliant on resistance debuffs to boost damage which means giving up the first strike.
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Yep but that's mostly because it's a pseudo-pet power (although why corruptors have thier own pseudo pet with the same base damage as Blasters i do not know).|
Originally Posted by Most_Amazing
Also if you look at Ice Blast's Blizzard attack it does the same amount of damage across all 3 Archetypes (Blasters, Defenders, and Corruptors). Because of this Blizzard actually does more damage on corruptors due to Scourge. Why do you think all the villians back in the day farmed with Ice/Kins?
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I am really, really, really hoping that one day the devs will go back and change ALL of the pseudo-pet powers so that they have AT modifiers baked in. I realize that this would be a huge amount of work but I'd still like to see it. The revised version of Poison Gas Arrow gives me hope that we will see it done on most new powers at least (for those who don't know based on the new version of PGA the devs apparently now have the ability to have a pseudo pet power add or remove effects based on the AT that originally summoned it).
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A ~30% nerf to Corrupter Rain of Fire? Oh, the rage would be epic.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I am really, really, really hoping that one day the devs will go back and change ALL of the pseudo-pet powers so that they have AT modifiers baked in. I realize that this would be a huge amount of work but I'd still like to see it. The revised version of Poison Gas Arrow gives me hope that we will see it done on most new powers at least (for those who don't know based on the new version of PGA the devs apparently now have the ability to have a pseudo pet power add or remove effects based on the AT that originally summoned it).
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
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Well they could opt to keep Corruptor RoF where it is and buff the Blaster and Defender versions instead |
Originally Posted by Obitus
A ~30% nerf to Corrupter Rain of Fire? Oh, the rage would be epic.
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. Actually the real way to nerf RoF for Corruptors would be to change it so the Scourge doubles the damage instead of tripling it. Which brings up the question of exactly WHY does Scourge triple the damage from RoF instead of doubling it as it does for every other Corruptor power?
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Everybody wins! |
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Well they could opt to keep Corruptor RoF where it is and buff the Blaster and Defender versions instead
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1) Increase range damage mods (1.3 blaster, 0.9 corruptor, 0.8 defender)
2) Change each tick of Rain of Fire to be (these all use melee pet mods):
Blaster - 0.052 scale
Corruptor - 0.036 scale
Defender - 0.032 scale
3) The corruptor version scourges for 0.036 scale
4) Leave the slows as they are currently (and allow it to be slotted for slows, including slow IO sets)
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Forget that the upset over Blizzard would be Super Colossal
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Originally Posted by Obitus
A ~30% nerf to Corrupter Rain of Fire? Oh, the rage would be epic.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Forget that the upset over Blizzard would be Super Colossal
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Sleet is the power that would probably cause the most gnashing of teeth.
Not that I think that should stop them.
Or if nothing else, Defender Sleet should use the correct -35% Resist pet that Defender Storm does.
I've never really understood the belief that some Corruptor/Defender blast powers having Blaster modifiers is "correct" and will remain unchanged. It's not like they give Blasters access to Corruptor/Defender buffs and debuffs, do they?
I can imagine Corruptors & Defenders being happy to have Blizzard use the Blaster damage modifier, but I kind of roll my eyes at any proposition that it's "right, proper, and will never be changed."
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
I've never really understood the belief that some Corruptor/Defender blast powers having Blaster modifiers is "correct" and will remain unchanged.
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Except changing the values to be correct still leaves it cheese and still leaves the cheese in the same place. I don't see people suggesting changing Rain of Fire into a targeted AoE or into a debuff patch.
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Originally Posted by Garent
Cheese
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Your faith in an MMO community's ability to adapt to any sort of change is much higher than mine.
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Oh, I think people will freak if they fix corruptor Rain of Fire (as well as Ice Storm and Blizzard for corruptors and defenders), but they can't claim the cheese was moved. Numerical errors and balance issues are always up for change. Cheese moving should be avoided as much as possible.
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Originally Posted by Garent
Your faith in an MMO community's ability to adapt to any sort of change is much higher than mine.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Sure they can. They'll be wrong but that won't stop them from claiming that the cheese was moved.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Oh, I think people will freak if they fix corruptor Rain of Fire (as well as Ice Storm and Blizzard for corruptors and defenders), but they can't claim the cheese was moved. Numerical errors and balance issues are always up for change. Cheese moving should be avoided as much as possible.
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I am sorry but this has been in the game since what I1 for defenders ? Have the developers ever so much as said this might be wrong ? |
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Sure they can. They'll be wrong but that won't stop them from claiming that the cheese was moved.
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Is it a known issue ?
At what point does it stop being the player's responsibility to intuit what the developers are going to think is wrong and becomes the developer's responsibility to provide timely notice ?
If they change it now they will be moving the cheese. At least with the Hami Os they always said it was a known issue, even so I am certain that a good number of people just threw up their hands and said time for something else when that change was put in.
It's a basic design philosophy of the game that ATs have different scalars for different things and that the powers change based on that. Pseudo-pet powers are a semi-exception since it is apparently a major PITA to have them change per AT. As such the devs have generally limited those changes to situations where the power in question was clearly over-performing on certain ATs (see: Fulcrum Sift for Controllers).
Powers like Blizzard aren't considered as problematic to overall game balance so they tend to get left alone but nothing I've ever seen shows that the devs consider that to be WAI. It's just not a big enough problem to warrant the effort required to fix it.
In any case based on the new Poison Gas Arrow it looks like the devs have a better solution for creating these powers going forward for which I at least am thankful (I HATE it when systems have discontinuities in their pattenrs)
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Indeed, at 6 minute base recharge and a horrific crash, not a big deal (obviously some builds can leverage it exceedingly well, and teamed it can get very good). Ice Storm's damage is low enough to also not be a big deal.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Powers like Blizzard aren't considered as problematic to overall game balance so they tend to get left alone but nothing I've ever seen shows that the devs consider that to be WAI. It's just not a big enough problem to warrant the effort required to fix it.
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With the coming changes to nukes, Blizzard being incorrect becomes more of a concern. I also see no reason why Ice Storm and Rain of Fire should remain incorrect, once you decide to fix Blizzard.
Ice Storm, IMO, could easily leave the defender version as is and increase the corruptor and blaster version.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Well you must hate the entire system for nukes then. All of them violate the damage/recharge rules and still will even when they are made crashless..|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
It's a basic design philosophy of the game that ATs have different scalars for different things and that the powers change based on that. Pseudo-pet powers are a semi-exception since it is apparently a major PITA to have them change per AT. As such the devs have generally limited those changes to situations where the power in question was clearly over-performing on certain ATs (see: Fulcrum Sift for Controllers).
Powers like Blizzard aren't considered as problematic to overall game balance so they tend to get left alone but nothing I've ever seen shows that the devs consider that to be WAI. It's just not a big enough problem to warrant the effort required to fix it. In any case based on the new Poison Gas Arrow it looks like the devs have a better solution for creating these powers going forward for which I at least am thankful (I HATE it when systems have discontinuities in their pattenrs) |
So in this case it's which discontinuity gets fixed.
But ALL of them violate it, which creates a pattern in and of itself.
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Ah but the nukes themselves are consistent between themselves. Also in general it bothers me a lot less when a specific power breaks the general mold for ALL ATs then when a specific power breaks the mold for ONE AT. You have to have a certain number of powers that break the generalized rules either to balance individual sets or just to differentiate the sets as long as the general power level remains the same I'm fine with it.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Well you must hate the entire system for nukes then. All of them violate the damage/recharge rules and still will even when they are made crashless..
So in this case it's which discontinuity gets fixed. |
The AT boundaries however are a lot stronger. Blasters do more damage than Corruptors who do more damage than Defenders. When the same power does the same damage on all three ATs (or worse the Corruptor does more damage than the Blaster) then it's breaking the inherent rules for ATs.
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Do you mean things like melee classes not using their ranged damage modifiers for ranged attacks?
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
It's a basic design philosophy of the game that ATs have different scalars for different things and that the powers change based on that. Pseudo-pet powers are a semi-exception since it is apparently a major PITA to have them change per AT. As such the devs have generally limited those changes to situations where the power in question was clearly over-performing on certain ATs (see: Fulcrum Sift for Controllers).
Powers like Blizzard aren't considered as problematic to overall game balance so they tend to get left alone but nothing I've ever seen shows that the devs consider that to be WAI. It's just not a big enough problem to warrant the effort required to fix it. In any case based on the new Poison Gas Arrow it looks like the devs have a better solution for creating these powers going forward for which I at least am thankful (I HATE it when systems have discontinuities in their pattenrs) |
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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Time to find another rooftop.