Uh, crap, how do I get rid of a poll?
Note to self: Stop fiddling around with things
Quote:
As kids, my friends mom would constantly scream that she would strangle him with a knife. Always made us crack up.|
Originally Posted by VoodooGirl
So with Water Blast we are getting a few water based powers that do... fire damage. I get that steam can burn - but it burns by heat, not by fire.
Sorry, it just seems silly and illogical to have a "water" power do "fire" damage. Would it be too hard (coding wise) to rebrand fire damage as heat damage? Saying water does fire damage is sort of like saying you stabbed someone with a ball. |
On topic: Sure, why not?
Quote:
This.
|
Originally Posted by SinisterDirge
On topic: Sure, why not?
|
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
I voted no, because unnecessary changes to the code-base is just begging to find ways to introduce new and exciting bugs. But, if what this really means is changing every reference in the UI to 'Heat' from 'Fire' without actually making any code changes, then sure. It doesn't really make any difference at that point.
Save Paragon one more time! http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index....ic,4877.0.html
Petition to end shutting down CoH:
http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
I'm...more certain that not (don't ask me to make numbers, please no!) that this would 'only' require swapping Fire for Heat in the UI and suchnot. I guess only labelling some as 'Heat' and leaving stuff like Fire Blast as 'Fire' would get confusing, if they were different names for the same thing.
But, yeah, Water Blast doing 'Fire' damage seems...Iunno, a tad silly 
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
 |
Laser Beam Eyes.
Lasers burn things with heat. Yet these do Energy damage. As do electric attacks/lightning which are, fundamentally, burns too.
Heat is just a form of energy, yet we draw a distinction, mainly so we can have things that are resistant to fire attacks, yet don't resist, say, a beam weapon or radiation.
Furthermore, Smashing and Lethal damage are fundamentally both just "physical" damage. If I shoot you with a bullet, that's "piercing/lethal" damage, but if you enlarged that bullet up to the size of a wrecking ball, it turns into Smashing.
Damage types are only abstractions, and exist only so we can have effects and powers be stronger against some things than others. For that purpose, steam doing fire damage is acceptable. The only thing important is that the guy made of fire can shrug off being shot with fire, and similar expectations we have of how powers should work.
Of course, Water Blast by all rights should be devastating to someone with Fiery Aura, yet in game they'll probably shrug it off as good or better than even someone who can cover themselves in ice. The game could very well do better in this regard. Malta's S/L resistant Kevlar vests shouldn't protect them against a super strength powered punch to the head, or sword cuts as it does bullets. Using Water Blast on an electrified target should damage both the caster and the target. Fiery Aura shouldn't work when you're treading water. Mailboxes and bus shelters should not be able to be Feared no matter how powerful a psychic you are.
But of course, changing all of that and more would destroy balance.
And if you're wondering why water burns, and other science facts-- just repeat to yourself "It's just a game, I should really just relax."
.
Quote:
Not to go off-topic (ok, totally going off topic...), but this is coming from THE crusader of the Tanker AT, right? |
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
And if you're wondering why water burns, and other science facts-- just repeat to yourself "It's just a game, I should really just relax." . |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
Quote:
Two completely different things.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Not to go off-topic (ok, totally going off topic...), but this is coming from THE crusader of the Tanker AT, right?
|
To model all of the logical damage types and subtypes, along with all their logical interactions, is just not feasible. Even just modeling interactions between your Primary and Secondary sets as a bonus (like having Water Blast + Electric Manipulation do more damage) would be how many combinations to invent and balance for?
And of course you come to things that aren't clear cut: "Well, would Water Blast put out Fiery Aura or would FA boil it away before it even hit? And it you attacked FA with ice, would it melt and then put out the fire?"
Insurmountable task, without even a clear goal, that never ends (because you go through it all over again as soon as a new power set is created).
.
Quote:
ditto.
|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
This.
|
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
It's all about perception... you are playing a game that presumes that someone can protect themselves by setting themselves on fire and that people can shoot mind bullets from their forehead... use your imagination.
Badge-Hunter: @Dogma
CIT: @Dogma
XFire: BrckaLo
Playfire: BrckaLo
GamerDNA: CoHDogma
Quote:
I haven't laughed so hard at something on the Internet in like...at least a day. Well played, sir.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Mailboxes and bus shelters should not be able to be Feared no matter how powerful a psychic you are.
|
On topic...no, changing it (at least in the hard code) would be silly, and it's a slippery slope. Also, if you just change it in the UI (but it's still coded as Fire damage) there's a HUGE risk of confusion where new players ask "Where do I get heat damage resistance as a fire tanker?" and the mocking berating that would follow.
Carl and Sons @Aurora Girl (Pinnacle)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by EarthWyrm
But I do understand that there is an internet rule that any bad idea must be presented by someone at least twice a year to remind everyone who hasn't already read every previous thread on the topic precisely why the idea is bad.
|
Quote:
Psst, get your humour circuits checked |
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
-snip-
. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
Quote:
I can convince them they should explode.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Mailboxes and bus shelters should not be able to be Feared no matter how powerful a psychic you are.
|
Although technically speaking I don't know what it means to terrorize an immobile object with no discretionary powers.
If people are going to complain about something small like "fire" damage really being "heat" damage, then they should really ask themselves what exactly a "cold" attack type is. And for that matter, what is "AoE defense" that it doesn't work on melee or ranged attacks.
They are, as J_B says, abstractions designed to evoke, but not simulate. Otherwise, the whole thing unravels fast. Energy attacks do only partial energy damage. Electric attacks generally do all energy damage. Fire is as much a form of energy as kinetic energy. Lethal isn't particularly lethal. And my long time favorite: Blind is described as a painful flash of light, and it deals psionic damage. Its not an illusion of a flash of light because it can affect nearby foes. Damage and attack types are intended to be reasonable, but that reasonableness is judged based on many factors besides pseudo-physics.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
On the surface, sure. I made the joke myself. But actually, Water Blast doing Fire damage should be translated as "this water blast does the sort of damage normally associated with fire." Not "this water blast somehow has fire in it."
|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
But, yeah, Water Blast doing 'Fire' damage seems...Iunno, a tad silly
|
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Didn't you hear?
Adele set fire to the rain.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
Quote:
Given there are a few D&D and Pathfinder spells/effects that work exactly this way (with superheated water doing fire damage, for that reason), this is how I intuitively thought of it in the first place when I heard of it. Also, I'm glad there were some "hot water" attacks included, since I'm going to be using the set on a Water/Kin corruptor as Coffee Blast |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
On the surface, sure. I made the joke myself. But actually, Water Blast doing Fire damage should be translated as "this water blast does the sort of damage normally associated with fire." Not "this water blast somehow has fire in it."
|
,'&#
{}... .-
01234
"*_
?;!hgfauirebcew
Quote:
All I know is when I accidentally taunt said inanimate objects and they turn to look at me it freaks me the hell out in a way a Silent Hill style horror game never will.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Although technically speaking I don't know what it means to terrorize an immobile object with no discretionary powers.
|
.
Quote:
Unless we're talking about moonshine, right?
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
On the surface, sure. I made the joke myself. But actually, Water Blast doing Fire damage should be translated as "this water blast does the sort of damage normally associated with fire." Not "this water blast somehow has fire in it."
|
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
Well, five of the powerset's eight attacks deal about 75% Cold damage, and Whirlpool deals 100% Cold damage. Fire Armor types will be pretty vulnerable to that. Ice Armor, meanwhile, has capped Cold resistance, which already gives them an edge there, but the 1/4 Smashing damage means the attacks have Smashing tags and will be frequently deflected by Ice's S/L defense. So, Fire Armor is considerably more vulnerable to those attacks than Ice Armor is.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Of course, Water Blast by all rights should be devastating to someone with Fiery Aura, yet in game they'll probably shrug it off as good or better than even someone who can cover themselves in ice. The game could very well do better in this regard.
|
Steam Spray and Geyser are the weird ones, but a Steam Spray at least would do most of its damage via burning, so it seems appropriate for Fire to do better against that. Geyser really should suck for both sets (Fire because you're drenched, Ice because it's a geyser of boiling water), but one power out of eight being slightly odd in its thematic interactions with player armor sets is within my personal tolerances.
Also, no, I don't think the name should be changed. Even aside from the opportunities for bugs and confusion, I don't think having an obviously-heat-based power like Steam Spray deal the obviously-heat-based damage type is a situation that actually needs to be corrected, certainly not by changing every fire power in existence.
Changing the term Fire to Heat would be an intelligent, and well done minor change to the game...
thats why it'll never happen. This game is lol
It's too small a change to justify any way.. i'm actually curious as to why they didn't do this originally considering we (as in many other games) always refer to COLD instead of ICE. Meh, it's a minor point but I'm surprised to see so many down votes when there is no real justification other than 'derp I'd rather have them do something else' then I respond to 'with wut?' then they say something ellaborate and not even on the same level of effort.. It's liek asking someone if they want vanilla ice cream and them saying no because they'd rather have a sundae with a hot [insert gender of choice] spoon feeding it to us while watching [your favorite show here].
Yeah, we all would like that... but we're talking on the level of a simple ice cream cone.
Whining about everything since 2006.
Ammo switching for Dual Pistols was my idea:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=135484
Quote:
Well maybe you should stop talking about their momma then. |
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
All I know is when I accidentally taunt said inanimate objects and they turn to look at me it freaks me the hell out in a way a Silent Hill style horror game never will.
. |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Quote:
Yeah, I had a brain fart. I was misremembering Fire with a second toggle with +Cold res.|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
Well, five of the powerset's eight attacks deal about 75% Cold damage, and Whirlpool deals 100% Cold damage. Fire Armor types will be pretty vulnerable to that.
|
Quote:
| Geyser really should suck for both sets (Fire because you're drenched, Ice because it's a geyser of boiling water) |
.
Quote:
Its called the mpemba effect, and its not a high school physics effect: at the present time the physics behind the effect is still actually unknown.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Actually, if I remember my high school physics correctly, boiling water actually freezes faster because it's in a state to give off it's energy more readily than if it was at room temperature.
|
In either case, I don't think that effect helps someone encased in Ice being sprayed with boiling water.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
Quote:
The amount of effort required to make this "trivial" change is enormous, because every single attack that deals fire damage would have to have its combat chat changed to refer to "heat" instead of "fire" and a mass search and replace would replace instances of the word "fire" that should remain even after the change. You'd also have to change their text descriptions, and alter the text of powers that buff fire damage, offer fire resistance, or display fire statistics, including the Real Numbers system.|
Originally Posted by Vel_Overload
Changing the term Fire to Heat would be an intelligent, and well done minor change to the game...
thats why it'll never happen. This game is lol It's too small a change to justify any way.. i'm actually curious as to why they didn't do this originally considering we (as in many other games) always refer to COLD instead of ICE. Meh, it's a minor point but I'm surprised to see so many down votes when there is no real justification other than 'derp I'd rather have them do something else' then I respond to 'with wut?' then they say something ellaborate and not even on the same level of effort.. It's liek asking someone if they want vanilla ice cream and them saying no because they'd rather have a sundae with a hot [insert gender of choice] spoon feeding it to us while watching [your favorite show here]. Yeah, we all would like that... but we're talking on the level of a simple ice cream cone. |
Its days of work at least, followed by years of players asking what heat damage is and where fire went. And all to address an issue that is far less problematic than asking what "lethal" actually damage is, or what a "cold_attack" actually is.
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
So with Water Blast we are getting a few water based powers that do... fire damage. I get that steam can burn - but it burns by heat, not by fire.
Sorry, it just seems silly and illogical to have a "water" power do "fire" damage. Would it be too hard (coding wise) to rebrand fire damage as heat damage?
Saying water does fire damage is sort of like saying you stabbed someone with a ball.