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I made a tribute of a parody and it got generic'd so I had to change him to a parody of a parody. |
Originally Posted by Lucretia_MacEvil
Or make a parody/tribute instead. IMO, parodies are more interesting anyway.
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Meta-parody! Or, in the form of a modern cliche, Parody-ception!
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Originally Posted by _Klaw_
I made a tribute of a parody and it got generic'd so I had to change him to a parody of a parody.
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And then drink.
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Originally Posted by Ironblade
Call it A LITERAL SLAP IN THE FACE (that's always a popular one).
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In this case it wouldn't be an issue with copyright as you cannot copyright a person's name. It could fall into the are of trademarks however - in that case for it to be a violation they would need to show that the usage of the name was such that it could be reasonable identifiable with the trademark holder. If it is sufficiently different there is no trademark violation. One of the best known examples of this are the two Apple companies where the Apple of Steve Jobs fame failed to prove that Apple Records infringed their trademark due to the different area of business.|
Originally Posted by Lucretia_MacEvil
That being said, there IS a legal reason (as well as a business concern) for NCSoft to worry about copyright violations. I tend to agree with the rule of thumb: if you think it would be genericed, don't make it. Or make a parody/tribute instead. IMO, parodies are more interesting anyway.
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Another more topical case was the Mayor of Batman (Yes - it is a real place) suing Marvel over their use of the city's name. I doubt that got far either but no doubt it was good publicity for the city.
Of course the real problem here is that defending a case is expensive and time consuming so the EULA imposes a more stringent set of rules so that such a case does not get made in the first place even if the courts would ultimately rule in NCSoft's favour.
Mind of Gaia lvl 50 Defiant's first Mind/Storm 'troller.
Deadly Doc 50 Dark/Dark Corr
and lots more on Pinnacle,Union and Defiant
Hi
I will be honest, and admit that I have not read the whole thread. But I do have one that may raise questions.....
If my name in real life IS Michael Jackson, and I proceed to make a character after my own name, would that still be in violation. Lets face it, the Celebrity Michael Jackson did not own copywright to my name?
Infact, I am pretty sure you cannot even copywright a name.
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This has been answered previously, but probably lost in the confusion.|
Originally Posted by saviour123
Hi
I will be honest, and admit that I have not read the whole thread. But I do have one that may raise questions..... If my name in real life IS Michael Jackson, and I proceed to make a character after my own name, would that still be in violation. Lets face it, the Celebrity Michael Jackson did not own copywright to my name? Infact, I am pretty sure you cannot even copywright a name. |
From the EULA, 11.(a).(ii): (emphasis mine)
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| You warrant and represent that You understand that Your privacy, as well as the privacy of others who do not know each other personally in the real world, is well served by keeping interactions in a virtual world separate from those in the real world. You warrant and represent that You will not use any Service, Content or Software to provide any information that could be used, directly or indirectly, by another user of the Game to identify You in the real world. You warrant and represent that You will not use any Service, Content or Software to obtain any information that could be used, directly or indirectly, to identify another user of the Game in the real world. |
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And people trying to make arguments like this to get around the rules are exactly why the rule is as broad as possible and allowed to be open to GM interpretation on a case by case basis.
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Originally Posted by saviour123
Hi
I will be honest, and admit that I have not read the whole thread. But I do have one that may raise questions..... If my name in real life IS Michael Jackson, and I proceed to make a character after my own name, would that still be in violation. Lets face it, the Celebrity Michael Jackson did not own copywright to my name? Infact, I am pretty sure you cannot even copywright a name. |
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This is correct. Names are Trademarked, not copyrighted.
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Originally Posted by saviour123
Infact, I am pretty sure you cannot even copywright a name.
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@Roderick
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You men the Beatles Apple Corp? They sued Apple Computers, actually, IIRC (several times :P)
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Originally Posted by Gaia
In this case it wouldn't be an issue with copyright as you cannot copyright a person's name. It could fall into the are of trademarks however - in that case for it to be a violation they would need to show that the usage of the name was such that it could be reasonable identifiable with the trademark holder. If it is sufficiently different there is no trademark violation. One of the best known examples of this are the two Apple companies where the Apple of Steve Jobs fame failed to prove that Apple Records infringed their trademark due to the different area of business.
Another more topical case was the Mayor of Batman (Yes - it is a real place) suing Marvel over their use of the city's name. I doubt that got far either but no doubt it was good publicity for the city. Of course the real problem here is that defending a case is expensive and time consuming so the EULA imposes a more stringent set of rules so that such a case does not get made in the first place even if the courts would ultimately rule in NCSoft's favour. |
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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And both Trademarks and Copyrights are covered by NCSofts policy.
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Originally Posted by Roderick
This is correct. Names are Trademarked, not copyrighted.
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Only ever had 1 character genericed, and not for an IP Violation.
Several years ago, before the server merge, I decided to create a villian group to the GGRRR super group after I honourably promoted to leader position. For the VG name I decided to go with a play on words with my SG main toon's name, Neo Chamber, in order to make the group easilly identifiable to the SG members. So I came up with the name Neo World Order.
So then, with the VG Name sorted I needed just the right character to be super leader of the VG, so I rolled a merc MM in red and black fatigues, red skull mask and tech face details. Now, I had to work the Neo part into the name, and after comming up with a back story of being a failed eastern european dictator with a tech fetish I went with the name Neo Fuhrer. Using Fuhrer in it literal translaton of leader. A word still in common usage in germany to this day.
Played for a few months, got to the early 40's and was really enjoying playing him. Then one day, upon logging in to find him genericed. My appeals for the name failed, dispite my pointing out the fact that the word was common usage in germany, and the fact, the the reason the name was deemed offensive was mute as the 5th column had just made their return to the game, who follow the very same theme that my toon was following. Then all my alternate names were rejected, as, even though none of them contained the original "Offensive word", they all contained the, to me at least, conceptually required word, Neo.
We came to an impasse and I ended up deleting and never did come up with a replacememt, though I have recently rolled that toons daughter as a heroic mercs MM for and SG theme team.
I relate this story just to highlight that IP violation is not the only reason for being genericed. any name that is reported as "Offensive" can be genericed. and it appeared the GM's also very much, err on the side of caution in those cases.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
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The word you are looking for is moot, not mute.|
Originally Posted by St_Angelius
the the reason the name was deemed offensive was mute as the 5th column had just made their return to the game, |
As for whether or not the use of the word Fuhrer was moot due to the return of the 5th Council, there are several people that would be offended by the use of that name.
The historical figure most people associate with that title was a promoter of genocide and his policies and ideologies led to the deaths of millions of people.
Even though the word may still be in use in Germany, many in the rest of the world would still find the use of that term offensive.
From Wikipedia:
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Führer, alternatively spelled Fuehrer in both English and German when the umlaut is not available, is a German title meaning leader or guide now most associated with Adolf Hitler. The word Führer in the sense of guide remains common in German, but because of its strong association with Nazi Germany, it comes with some stigma and negative connotations when used as the meaning of leader. The word Leiter is therefore used instead. In other languages, the word is used almost exclusively as the epithet for Hitler. |
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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I think you mean the Mayor of Batman sued DC comics as they hold the copyright/trademark of the Batman character. Unless Marvel has their own version of a 'Bat Man' you are referring to. I'm not a comic reader and never have been so I wouldn't know.
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Originally Posted by Gaia
Another more topical case was the Mayor of Batman (Yes - it is a real place) suing Marvel over their use of the city's name. I doubt that got far either but no doubt it was good publicity for the city.
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Yep, that is indeed the word I meant to type and don't know why the hell I typed mute instead. Major fail on my part.|
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
The word you are looking for is moot, not mute.
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Originally Posted by Texas Justice
As for whether or not the use of the word Fuhrer was moot due to the return of the 5th Council, there are several people that would be offended by the use of that name.
The historical figure most people associate with that title was a promoter of genocide and his policies and ideologies led to the deaths of millions of people. Even though the word may still be in use in Germany, many in the rest of the world would still find the use of that term offensive. From Wikipedia: |
The character avaoided any icon or imagry related to the nazi party and was played with a very different ideology, EG,, non of that racial purity nonsence. Even so, CoH's 5th column and council have more a connection to the nazi party than my toon did, as does marvel character with a similar head to this toon (Unintentional, but something I realised afterwards), Red Skull.
Though I conceeded the useage of the offending word without any bitterness, the only hang up, and what caused the deletion of the character was the banning of the use of the word Neo. A word I use on 2 other heroic characters, a word an in game awuantance uses for every single one of his characters, and a word used in the name of the SG he was created to lead.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
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Whether the name Neo was in use on other characters or in the name of the SG doesn't matter. If anything, it could make those characters a target for being generic'd as well.
There have been several characters with Neo in the name that have been generic'd over the years. I've known a few of them although it's been a really long time since I've seen them so can't recall their exact names.
Mostly they were generic'd for one reason. Or for The One reason. Neo.
Since that character was one of the characters used in the little comic strip in the Prima guide when they were talking about originality in characters and names, it's possible that the GM involved had already been told or had determined that Neo would not be allowed.
Many of the ones I know of that were generic'd was before the addition of Trenchcoats. After Trenchcoats were added I know of several more that were generic'd because they tried to copy the look as well.
It's also possible that it was interpreted as being a reference to the fictional race called Neo in the X-Men comics.
Yes, as a prefix neo means new, but that's as a prefix. The way you were using it in the name it isn't a prefix. Now, if you'd named it Neofuhrer it would have fit into the usage you described as still being common in Germany and would have fit the definition of neo as a prefix.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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This.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
And since video game GMs are minimum wage cube drones, you can imagine how flawless their judgment is.
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I really don't think there is a standard rule. It seems to really depend on the GM. These are some of the names they've genericed on me:
-Apocalypse
-Tombstone
-Sentinel
-Wildcat
-Havoc
-Phantom
and a few others I can't think of.
I had most of these names for months and played them lots. None of them remotely resembled any comic counterpart but I still got smacked with the generic bat. Meanwhile they let some guy keep the name Hercules for various reasons. Anyway, I guess the best bet is to google the name you may want to use and see if there's a hit; if not then you should be good to go.
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Well, My character names are Neo-Chamber, Neo-Chan (Neo-Chambers little sister), and the late Neo-Fuhrer, so yes, in all cases, it is used as a prefix, just with a hyphen. Neo-Chamber did used to wear a trench coat all the time, but recently got a make over and no-longer does. Neither of my 3 Neo- characters could ever be said to be in any way a likeness of the matrix character. Neo-Chamber, both old and new looks, can be seen in the GGRRR comics by Night Hornet as posted in the city of comics creators thread on these boards.|
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Whether the name Neo was in use on other characters or in the name of the SG doesn't matter. If anything, it could make those characters a target for being generic'd as well.
There have been several characters with Neo in the name that have been generic'd over the years. I've known a few of them although it's been a really long time since I've seen them so can't recall their exact names. Mostly they were generic'd for one reason. Or for The One reason. Neo. Since that character was one of the characters used in the little comic strip in the Prima guide when they were talking about originality in characters and names, it's possible that the GM involved had already been told or had determined that Neo would not be allowed. Many of the ones I know of that were generic'd was before the addition of Trenchcoats. After Trenchcoats were added I know of several more that were generic'd because they tried to copy the look as well. It's also possible that it was interpreted as being a reference to the fictional race called Neo in the X-Men comics. Yes, as a prefix neo means new, but that's as a prefix. The way you were using it in the name it isn't a prefix. Now, if you'd named it Neofuhrer it would have fit into the usage you described as still being common in Germany and would have fit the definition of neo as a prefix. |
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Originally Posted by TheJazMan
Meanwhile they let some guy keep the name Hercules for various reasons.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
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And as I said in my previous post "it's possible that the GM involved had already been told or had determined that Neo would not be allowed."
Just as several of the Neo named characters I saw generic'd before we got trenchcoats.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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Ah, but I also know, from my comunication with Avatea over the mater, that the use of the Neo part of the name was disalowed on that non-trenchoat-wearing toon specifically, as it could be deemed, with the original name, to refer to Neo-Nazi, and have nothing to do with the movie character. Even though, I had, pre genericing, gone to lengths to disacociate the character from anthing nazi like (other than the name but accociation) in his Biog.|
Originally Posted by Texas Justice
And as I said in my previous post "it's possible that the GM involved had already been told or had determined that Neo would not be allowed."
Just as several of the Neo named characters I saw generic'd before we got trenchcoats. |
Either way, I didn't post the story to whine that I was wrongfully genericed, Even if to a degree I believe it was over vealous, but to point out that IP violation is not the only cause for being genericed and just how cautious the GM's can be over the situation.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Then it's time for them to get off the cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it.
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I think, as a general rule (and quite possibly as a policy), most if not all GMs will automatically genericize any name that is identical to an existing comic character, even if the character's appearance and other details do not match that of the copyrighted character. Now, if your character's name is similar to or incorporates an existing character's name as part of a longer name (i.e, Total Apocalype, the Phantom Demon), I think it will depend on each GM's personal judgement whether or not it looks like you're infringing on a copyright. The names you've listed as having been genericized seem to follow a pretty consitent patern long set by the GMs. |
Originally Posted by TheJazMan
This.
I really don't think there is a standard rule. It seems to really depend on the GM. These are some of the names they've genericed on me: -Apocalypse -Tombstone -Sentinel -Wildcat -Havoc -Phantom and a few others I can't think of. I had most of these names for months and played them lots. None of them remotely resembled any comic counterpart but I still got smacked with the generic bat. Meanwhile they let some guy keep the name Hercules for various reasons. Anyway, I guess the best bet is to google the name you may want to use and see if there's a hit; if not then you should be good to go. |
As for the player who was "allowed" to keep a character named Hercules, I'm guessing that was a player who was simply never reported and who would've been genericized if he had been. Even though it's true that no one owns the copyright on names like Hercules, Thor, comic publishers do own their specific depictions and interpretations of these mythological figures, and I assume the GMs are going to error on the side of caution and genericize any name that's already in use in the comics.
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Originally Posted by Red_Raccoon
I think, as a general rule (and quite possibly as a policy), most if not all GMs will automatically genericize any name that is identical to an existing comic character, even if the character's appearance and other details do not match that of the copyrighted character. Now, if your character's name is similar to or incorporates an existing character's name as part of a longer name (i.e, Total Apocalype, the Phantom Demon), I think it will depend on each GM's personal judgement whether or not it looks like you're infringing on a copyright. The names you've listed as having been genericized seem to follow a pretty consitent patern long set by the GMs.
As for the player who was "allowed" to keep a character named Hercules, I'm guessing that was a player who was simply never reported and who would've been genericized if he had been. Even though it's true that no one owns the copyright on names like Hercules, Thor, comic publishers do own their specific depictions and interpretations of these mythological figures, and I assume the GMs are going to error on the side of caution and genericize any name that's already in use in the comics. |
Actually, I'm fairly sure that player has been reported and has even contacted CS about the character himself. He's discussed it before.
His character is built off of the Hercules from mythology, not the Marvel Comics interpretation of that character, the DC Comics interpretation of the character the Disney interpretation of the character or even the old Trans-Lux Television animated series The Mighty Hercules (from the early to mid 60's). The poster knows this and that explains his "for various reasons" comment about the other player.
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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Well, if he actually had his Hercules approved, then good for him. Maybe going straight to customer support for a ruling was a good move. Or maybe he was just lucky. I remember some time ago a player complained that his "Thor" was genericized even though his character was closely based on norse mythology rather than the marvel comic hero. I think any time you choose a name that is already is use in a published work, you have to assume there is a certain risk it will be genericized no matter how strong a case you have that you are not violating any copyright or trademark. The GMs are not experts in the finer points of copyright law and are going to tend to play it safe when making a call.
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Originally Posted by Texas Justice
Actually, I'm fairly sure that player has been reported and has even contacted CS about the character himself. He's discussed it before.
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which is ironic considering the summer event....
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Originally Posted by TheJazMan
This.
I really don't think there is a standard rule. It seems to really depend on the GM. These are some of the names they've genericed on me: -Apocalypse |
Oddly.. when you report yourself nothing happens...
Recently I discovered that Alpha 6 is a character in Power Rangers, which made me sad because well i really HATE power rangers. So i went ahead and just re-rolled my main (even though she was incarnated, bots/pain is.. blah) to Bots/traps gave her a awesome new name..
Petitioned to have my global handle changed explaining that it might be a CP violation.. that was a no go..Requested a forum name change I think that is still pending.
That being said, there IS a legal reason (as well as a business concern) for NCSoft to worry about copyright violations. I tend to agree with the rule of thumb: if you think it would be genericed, don't make it. Or make a parody/tribute instead. IMO, parodies are more interesting anyway.