The worst powersets in the game?

Every bloomin' time I log into the game, my Stone/Fire is one of my core 3 characters.

He gets logged on every time I'm on (mainly cos he's one of my marketeers), but he's also one of the three characters I've got who have the Leader badge.

(oh, and Stone has two resist based non-granite defences, Stone Skin (passive) and Brimstone.)

I know this is purely my opinion, but I don't have any problem with Stone armour at all. And I play it as a non-Granite scranker.

It has reasonable, layered protection (regen, resist to most, defence to most, a Dull Pain clone, mez protection to everything bar Fear, Endurance drain and recovery debuff resistance, perception debuff resist), can be IO'd to enhance that protection, and can pretty easily hit 45% psi defence, making it potentially massively survivable against mobs that can melt other armours (Carnies, Arachnos Fortunatas, IDF Seers etc.)

And if all that's not enough, then you can hit Granite and get big lumps of resist to go with your solid amounts of defence. But you need to be aware that if you do that around psi damage, you're in trouble.

Mobility limitations are a source of irritation to a lot of players, and Granite's penalties seem to annoy more players. I've long since gotten used to Stone and how it works so they don't bother me.

It's not a pick up and play set that can be easily mastered like 'set and forget' WP, Shield or Invuln, but it's not weak if the player behind it knows how to use it.

All IMO, of course.

It could still be argued that it is the worst AT/Powerset in the game simply due to the necessity of having to learn how to play one "correctly".

I have a Warshade, it's L25 and the recent changes made it a blast to play. However it is hard to play because their is nothing else like it in the game. SOA's are simple. Fire/Kin cors are simple.

Kelds? You need at least 3-4 different binds and have a well slotted build to do much with em.

Captain Den'Rath 53* Merk/Traps MM, Rivona 50Energy Blast/Time Cor,Victoria Von Heilwig 53* Dual Pistols/Traps Cor, Crab Spider Webguard 53* SOA, Accela 53* Bot/FF MM,Valkyrie's Executor 53* Broadsword/Shield Def Scrap. On FREEDOM! @Knight Of Bronze

No, you can't. They hit harder and have better defenses. End of story.

Which in this game, makes you useless. Thanks for playing.

No, it doesn't. You can't get blood from a stone. There is a maximum mathematical amount of performance you can get out of any build and nothing you can do will change that.

I disagree. Or, at least, not that this could be -reasonably- argued.

Better defenses? I thought Khelds had a higher resistance cap than Stalkers/Scrappers. Since everybody and their grandma can softcap defense in some manner, the only other avenues for improving survival is HP/absorb and regen. Even if Scraps got better HP caps, you'd still have to contend with Kheld's resistance caps which they *will* be sitting on a lot.

And of course the Scrapper will hit harder. It wouldn't be balanced if Khelds were as/more survivable than scraps *and* hit harder to boot. But beyond that, range is also a factor.

Not as a factor of survival but a factor of utility and offensive application. You say Scraps and Brutes will hit harder, but when you pick up a situation where one cannot stand around punching melee attacks in a neat attack chain because they have to move around or dodge stuff and suddenly range allows for more damage to be applied more often.

To put it plainly, while Scraps/Brutes hit harder, they are limited by melee ranges.



FFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTT!!

Yeah, okay. Obviously, Venture doesn't know what he's talking about. He *thinks* he knows what he's talking about but he doesn't. It's like people conveniently pick apart the in-game situations while ignoring the rest. AoE is king? Well what about the situations where you're trying to destroy a single target quickly? ST DPS is the measure of power? Yeah, now what about just slaughtering a bunch of mobs *now* in the next 5 seconds rather than measuring the flow of bodies over 10 minutes?

Yeah, I'll just move along...let Venture think he knows what he's talking about and everybody's happy

...But the other utility abilities more than make up the difference. Next?

Just...stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

Yes, there is a maximum performance you can get no matter your skill. You obviously have never reached that point. And given the above quotes? You're probably never going to reach that point because you've limited yourself with stupid notions. Thanks for playing, though.

I have no binds. I am all human. Really Its not hard to play one. It's really common sense. But if you're looking for a at that doesnt have a bunch of stuff to figure out (aka go all human or forms) dont do it.

But for the veteren player that know what to do, it is still the best AT and most well rounded. Ok not THE best. But it is top tier.

WS's do not compare to PB's at all. I can't even get into them.

Seriously, there are a lot of nub pb's out there. Those of us that take it seriously know what to do. And out damaging a scrapper is actually quite easy. The only way it cant happen is if they crit every 3-4 attacks.

"Which in this game, makes you useless. Thanks for playing."

I am sorry, but you are ridiculously ignorant. And it pisses me off slightly. But i'll let it go because not every knows until they experience it.

All-human, so you've already given up your best bit. In fairness I was also human only, but that was back when Light Form wasn't even able to be made perma, so it was more or less the best choice.

At least tell me you've got perma Light Form. That would at least explain why you think youre useful. I honestly have no idea how you could possibly be good at... anything, otherwise.

/This

I hear ya. Totally agree. I'd actually suggest anyone adding to the discussion kind of regard the set's strengths and weaknesses when proposing a candidate.

The prospect of Peacebringers being the worst, though, I tend to wonder...if you weigh all that it has...it's damage, survivability, utility and team contribution, I'd hardly place it as worst. It does what it does decently and isn't deficient on any of them. That it's not the best at all of them or even some of the things it can do seems acceptable for being able to do so much in the first place.

I suppose my support for Stone Armor being bad is based more on visual appeal. I don't like the look of the set and nothing it has makes up for looking bad, IMO. But is the set worst? Probably not.

I still hold my opinion on Stalker Claws. Of all the sets so far, that's probably going to be at the bottom for everything but AoE to which it may come somewhat a few spots from the bottom.

you know, my problem with stone is , outside of it's mezz protection slowing you to a crawl and granite doing the same, that it looks really cool with all the layered armor sets, i loved that..then you get the last power and it just turns you into a visually unimpressive member of an old villain group. but the utility of the power is too much to ignore it so yu are kind of stuck.

....I can assure you, when people think of Dual Pistols, 'utility' is not a word that gets thrown around, ever.

It's AoE is nice though. But that's about it.

I do not have perma anything. I dont need it. Really.

I fly through stuff like its nothing. I can even solo AVs.

I got rebirth as my power for light form drop
Heals for the drop

To have a good pb, you should not rely on perma light form. Or the other forms. The other forms are weaker. Maybe for pve they are cool. But my usual chains can out damage the other two forms. They are useless to me.


You havnt seen a proper pb obviously and I would gladly use a transfer to go to the server you are on and show you what I've been trying to get you.

My problem actually isn't Stone's visuals at all. Not even on Granite. I mean, the visuals ARE bad, but on a decent set, I can roll with it. Being able to turn them into crystal or magma actually makes this one of the more versatile sets, and you're not supposed to run Granite all the time.

...At least, you SHOULDN'T be supposed to run Granite all the time, but that's not how it plays out, is it? What I absolutely hate about Stone armour first and foremost is a complete lack of in-set consistency. It is often said that you can't just take one power out of one set and compare it against a similar power against another set then claim they're not equal. They aren't supposed to be, because sets are supposed to be balanced as a whole, and Stone Armour REALLY isn't balanced as a whole. It's actually balanced as two completely separate sets.

It's also old as dirt and suffering from problems that date back to its inception. Once upon a time, Stone Armour's various armours did not stack. Want protection from fire and cold? You have to toggle off your protection from poo... I mean, your protection from physical damage. Energy hurting you too much? Turn everything off and turn THAT on. Stone Armour, in essence, was a set of tradeoffs. You were expected to deduce which damage was hurting you the most (a laughably unwieldy task without encyclopaedic knowledge of the game), which is why Granite Armour was so good. Granite Armour, unlike the rest of the toggles, protected you from everything at the same time, but at the cost of slowing your movement and killing your accuracy.

Then came the changes. Toggles became stackable, so the old poo man went away, then Rooted stopped rooting you to the ground literally and just started slowing you down and Granite Armour traded its to-hit debuff for a recharge debuff as Tankers complained they couldn't tank if they couldn't hit. What we ended up with was a set of far too many toggles in a world where "toggle juggling" doesn't work by virtue of so many of the newer enemy groups doing all types of damage at once, and a world where Stone Armour existed for more than just Tankers whose apparent "job" was to take damage and not deal too much. Only Rooted didn't lose its slow when Unyielding lost its defence debuff, can't forget that.

What we have now is a set that costs too much to do too little, with a damage aura that costs more than any other in the game, and with a T9 power that essentially replaces half your set. I honestly feel that Dink and Synapse need to sit down and tear this set apart so that idiots like me who don't go perma-granite don't feel so stupid. I honestly don't even feel that "perma-granite" should be an option, but if it WERE, it shouldn't come at the expense of not even taking the rest of your set.

*edit*
As for Peacebringers, I just plain don't like them. Not enough hit points, not enough status protection, not enough of a damage mod, plus too many powers to slot.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I still find it hard to believe that you have never tried ANY other power set.

Especially considering that there are other options for a completely natural character now who doesn't kill people.

Street Justice, Staff Fighting for primaries.

And Willpower, Shield, and SR for secondaries.

Street Justice/Shield is actually quite fun and very natural feeling.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

3 words:

Perma Light Form.

Status protection, and your resistance to everything is at its cap of 85%.

As an added bonus, getting to that point also enables you to have the PB's Dull Pain clone perma as well, which means your HP will be capped at 2409, just like a scrapper.

I know, it takes IOs to do it, but not a bunch of purples and stuff. It's actually pretty reasonable cost-wise.

Not liking them is a matter of preference, I'm just pointing out that half of the things you don't like about them are solvable with little to moderate effort. The damage scalar and too many powers we're stuck with though.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

Uh...hello? You're talking about VENTURE. Did it take you this long to clue into that? >_>

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Trouble is, that's a level 38, or at the very least a level 30-ish power, and it'll be a cold day in hell before I play a character I don't like until I start not liking it less. It's the same with me and Dominators - I know they can be amazing, but I'll never last until the point where that happens since I can't play a character I don't enjoy. Yes, it is a personal preference, but to me, a character isn't playable if that character isn't fun right away and isn't fun the whole way through. If I start having to skip levels or rush for levels, that's just something I'd rather skip altogether.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Uh....wait, what? Are you saying WS's are bad because you can't get into them?
WS's are, arguably, more numerically badass than PBs. I know that I can solo on x8 with my WS while my PB certainly cannot. Admittedly the WS is 50 while the PB is 30-something, but still.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Hey! I object to not making that list! I have a Villain rep to keep up here!

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Castle, before he left, said that Stone, or rather Granite, was the biggest problem of an old set that he had on his plate at the time. Primarily because there were lots of changes he wanted to make...but couldn't. Because everything revolved around changing Granite and making the set not, and I paraphrase here; "31 levels of suck for 18 levels of overpoweredness."

Castle did not consider Stone balanced. But there would have to be Dev authorised breaking of the cottage rule to 'fix' the set. Which left them with a dilemma that never got solved, because Castle then left.

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

I'm sure I'd end up bouncing on and off the list too, depending on what mood I'm in when I post.

I'm feeling moderately belligerant today, so I might be on it more than not.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.