Ask Anything: Ranged Blast and Blaster Manipulation Changes
By
Abysmalyxia,
Posted on: 2012-06-21 13:45 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Great post. I agree with most of it but sadly we have to work with the cards that we are dealt.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions. I appreciate you taking time to hold a dialog with us.
I like what you've done with the Blaster PBAoE toggles. Those powers have always been rather suspect to me. I apologize if the following is too critical and I hae failed to see something: I have to confess I'm not a fan of having a magic number that unlocks instant-sniping. I just don't think it works. It's going to send too many Defender and Corruptor builds scurrying for Tactics. I may hae missed something in the thread that changed things, but with this change Tactics will now be a required power for any Corruptor or Defender build with a Snipe who doesn't happen to be a Time Manipulator. I would personally even vote to just give Blasters a straight blast that completely replaces the snipe, everyone else keeps the snipe and it's made useful in some other way. The +22% hit requirement makes builds significantly less interesting to me. Worse yet, Kismet is an IO that goes in a defense power. If there is any trend I think that does not need reinforcing, it's squishy builds pushed into taking defense powers because of how they synergize with Recharge (thanks to the Luck of the Gambler). Now we're throwing ToHit onto that. Kismet was already a pretty useful IO but this makes it essentially mandatory for any build that is een semi-serious. Regarding +Range to powers, I think thats ok but I would personally vote that that change should apply to the Blaster version ONLY. I say this as someone who only really plays Dominators and Corruptors with any level of seriousness. Give me a reason to want to play Blasters. My Corruptors and especially my Dominators do not need that buff. Note that by boosting sets like Fire Blast on a Corruptor you are defacto eliminating the small advantage Psychic Blast has, because one of the very few advantages of that set is its range. Overall, most of these changes seem to reinforce for me, rather than eliminate, reasons I tend to avoid Blasters in the first place. Perhaps I am missing someting in this thread, but I just am not seeing how they come out ahead. It seems to put Corruptors significantly ahead and increase the range of my Dominators, who in some cases were rolled in place of Blasters. I don't think either Corruptors or Dominators need these buffs at all. (Defenders might, but IMO what they really need is something toset them apart from Corruptors.) |
Nature Affinity is also a good secondary to mix with snipe. Since Overgrowth can be made perma with enough recharge.
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I'd just like to point out that, IMO, Doms are different.|
Originally Posted by Tater Todd
Assault Sets don't need help except for like two (Elec and Ice) but this isn't about buffing Snipes for Doms only this is about making Snipes beneficial for all ATs not just for 5 except Doms. Even Scrappers and Stalkers have Build up in everyone of their primaries but Doms don't AND They have sets without snipes and sets with snipes that have no build up or pb. So a Melee AT benefits more from the snipe change more than a ranged toon? That sounds off.
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They're different from ranged characters because they have melee powers that are particularly strong (stronger than Blasters currently) and yet they have abilities that can keep mass foes at range to boot.
They're different from melee characters because they do not have passive survival tools to stay in melee range but have ranged attacks and crowd control/active survival tools to survive in melee or range.
Beyond that, they have attack powers in their secondary with mods that make those sets as powerful as a primary.
So they are different and that should be considered and balanced around when making changes to Doms. Just because ranged ATs can do something isn't justification for Doms and just because melee ATs can do something doesn't make that a reason to extend to Doms.
So as for Melees using insta-snipe, that may change, but do remember that Stalkers and Scrappers already pay for their snipe prowess: Patron Pool snipes recharge longer than Dom snipes and do less damage than than either Blasters' or Doms'. PS: They also animate at a glacially slow speed (8sec).
Just an FYI... ANY dom can take Tactics + Kismet + Link Minds from the psi APP and hit the magic 22% to-hit number.... >_>
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
Should have added this IMO: IMO, the way to handle this is to create an new IO set for Snipes and have that change how the power works, instead of trying to set it up in this way with +ToHit, which I'm going to be pessimistic about and say will never be balanced--in fact for Defender and Corruptors, I think what's being created here is the new-old-Stamina. Then whatever flag you use in that IO set, stick it in Devices, Aim, and Build Up.
EDIT: Sorry to keep babbling, but in reference to my statement earlier that I really think range for blasts should be a Blaster advantage, I'm surprised no onehas already mentioned that in most cases giving all blast sets more range benefits Defenders and Corruptors over Blasters, because most of their secondaries don't push them toward melee or blapping. There are a few exceptions but I very strongly feel that part of the buff belongs to Blasters and Blasters only, both because I want reasons to roll Blasters, and because these changes seem to play (apparently, unintentional) havoc with Defender and Corruptor builds. Not to mention, I'd be more interested in playing the same blast sets multiple times on different ATs if there were some differences in the sets besides just damage and secondary effect modifiers. I wish range, radius, cone width, etc was more open to adjustment. Note that Range is different in one set, Psychic Blast, which was nerfed from 100ft range to 80ft during the Blaster port from Defenders.
Actually the more I look at various actual powersets, the more concerned I am getting about both the range tweak and the +ToHit-for-fast-snipe tweak. Corruptor Psy Blast and Dark Blast, for example, don't even have Aim or Build Up, so pretty much for them they never get this advantage until they buy IOs and get Tactics, and then they have it all the time. I am not personally convinced by arguments about inspirations making up the difference any more than I do that inspirations made up the difference between armored and armored characters or characters with and without mezz protection. I just don't think this system works.
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You keep ignoring like half my posts...and you get on Arbiter Hawk about the same thing...>_>.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
I'd just like to point out that, IMO, Doms are different.
They're different from ranged characters because they have melee powers that are particularly strong (stronger than Blasters currently) and yet they have abilities that can keep mass foes at range to boot. They're different from melee characters because they do not have passive survival tools to stay in melee range but have ranged attacks and crowd control/active survival tools to survive in melee or range. Beyond that, they have attack powers in their secondary with mods that make those sets as powerful as a primary. So they are different and that should be considered and balanced around when making changes to Doms. Just because ranged ATs can do something isn't justification for Doms and just because melee ATs can do something doesn't make that a reason to extend to Doms. So as for Melees using insta-snipe, that may change, but do remember that Stalkers and Scrappers already pay for their snipe prowess: Patron Pool snipes recharge longer than Dom snipes and do less damage than than either Blasters' or Doms'. PS: They also animate at a glacially slow speed (8sec). |
So I'm going to do the same.
I would be fine with reducing Snipes for Doms even more but not to much b/c it would still make it not worth taking.
@Kyriani-Thanks! It still feels that you have to go out of you way to get the 22% and no offense but eww Psinoic Mastery and think that Mind Over Body needs a buff >_>.
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Mind Over Body seems ok as is to me... My only gripe is we need APP customization >.< |
Originally Posted by Tater Todd
You keep ignoring like half my posts...and you get on Arbiter Hawk about the same thing...>_>.
So I'm going to do the same. I would be fine with reducing Snipes for Doms even more but not to much b/c it would still make it not worth taking. @Kyriani-Thanks! It still feels that you have to go out of you way to get the 22% and no offense but eww Psinoic Mastery and think that Mind Over Body needs a buff >_>. |
But I think almost everyone has to put some sort of effort into achieving that 22%. Some more than others of course... but even the /devices blaster has to 6 slot targeting drone in just the right way to achieve that 22% hit mark (and they of course dont have build up to go along with it). If anything ALL doms have it easier than SOME other AT/Power Combos of achieving the 22% hit. Not all defenders or corruptors are time... and even those that are HAVE to take power build up or tactics or use a kismet to hit the mark. It's give and take for everyone really.
For doms to hit the 22% they need to take psi app, tactics and use the kismet unique. That's not really much different from the /energy blaster having to take tactics, kismet and use power boost, or the /rad defender or corruptor using tactics and a kismet or a /time defender having to take power build up.
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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Originally Posted by Arbiter Hawk
We love absorb and want to use it in many places. Force Field makes sense as a contender for a support set that would benefit from it, so it's possible you would see something like this in the far-distant future.
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I've had a FF character since I started playing, and I see nearly every FF take Dispersion Bubble. It's already a valued power. What makes me pull my hair out is folks who skip the little bubbles--Deflection Shield and Insulation Shield. Adding a bit of Absorbsion to to each of the little bubbles would at least make those folks thing a bit more about skipping those little bubbles.
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I'd still like to see at least some method of force field defenders being able to benefit from absorb mechanics themselves... like say force bubble or repulsion field... or both of them :P|
Originally Posted by gameboy1234
I've had a FF character since I started playing, and I see nearly every FF take Dispersion Bubble. It's already a valued power. What makes me pull my hair out is folks who skip the little bubbles--Deflection Shield and Insulation Shield. Adding a bit of Absorbsion to to each of the little bubbles would at least make those folks thing a bit more about skipping those little bubbles.
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and hey BLASTERS have repulsion field in their Force Mastery pool! That's another survival tool if they add absorb mechanics to it!
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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When have I gotten on anyone? Besides TJ for being himself and Arcana? Both of which came at me, not the other way around.|
Originally Posted by Tater Todd
You keep ignoring like half my posts...and you get on Arbiter Hawk about the same thing...>_>.
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Secondly, I'm just commenting on the points I want to comment on. I'm not ignoring the rest of your posts, it's just what I say regarding those parts don't matter. I'm just posting my opinions anyway.
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Originally Posted by Kyriani
I'd still like to see at least some method of force field defenders being able to benefit from absorb mechanics themselves... like say force bubble or repulsion field... or both of them :P
and hey BLASTERS have repulsion field in their Force Mastery pool! another survival tool! |
It seems like a natural fit for Personal Force Field, at least. I could see an argument for Force Bolt dismissing Absorb effects too, although that may be too specialized.
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Yeah...I guess I'm selfish then. It seems like a lot to sacrifice for that power.
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Originally Posted by Kyriani
Mind Over Body seems ok as is to me... My only gripe is we need APP customization >.<
But I think almost everyone has to put some sort of effort into achieving that 22%. Some more than others of course... but even the /devices blaster has to 6 slot targeting drone in just the right way to achieve that 22% hit mark (and they of course dont have build up to go along with it). If anything ALL doms have it easier than SOME other AT/Power Combos of achieving the 22% hit. Not all defenders or corruptors are time... and even those that are HAVE to take power build up or tactics or use a kismet to hit the mark. It's give and take for everyone really. For doms to hit the 22% they need to take psi app, tactics and use the kismet unique. That's not really much different from the /energy blaster having to take tactics, kismet and use power boost, or the /rad defender or corruptor using tactics and a kismet. |
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Everyone has to decide how much they are willing to sacrifice. I don't think that makes you any more or less selfish than the rest of us! ^_^ We all want our cake and eat it too!|
Originally Posted by Tater Todd
Yeah...I guess I'm selfish then. It seems like a lot to sacrifice for that power.
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Ultimately one can always decide the sacrifices are too great for the return and simply not worry about taking the snipe
Jem - Ill/Rad Controller Lv 50+3 Nic - Mind/Psi Dominator Lv 50+3 Lady Liberation - Invuln/SS Tanker Lv 50+1 Invicitx - Demon/Pain Mastermind Lv 50+1 Celeste - Emp/Arch Defender Lv 50+1 Nightsilver - DB/WP Scrapper Lv 34 Dusk Howl - StJ/Regen Brute Lv 32 Kyriani - Time/Energy Defender Lv 41Psifire - FF/Psi Defender Lv 50
Star Lighter - LB/LA Peacebringer Lv 30
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You're a lazy head lol... And I even made that little bullet point presentation for you! *shakes head*|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
When have I gotten on anyone? Besides TJ for being himself and Arcana? Both of which came at me, not the other way around.
Secondly, I'm just commenting on the points I want to comment on. I'm not ignoring the rest of your posts, it's just what I say regarding those parts don't matter. I'm just posting my opinions anyway. |
tsk tsk....but at least you're honest...which rare for anyone these days.
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Indeed! |
Originally Posted by Kyriani
Everyone has to decide how much they are willing to sacrifice. I don't think that makes you any more or less selfish than the rest of us! ^_^ We all want our cake and eat it too!
Ultimately one can always decide the sacrifices are too great for the return and simply not worry about taking the snipe |
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Yeah, those bullets made it hard to quote each one without putting list markers inside each quote so consider this my revenge.
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Originally Posted by Tater Todd
You're a lazy head lol... And I even made that little bullet point presentation for you! *shakes head*
tsk tsk....but at least you're honest...which rare for anyone these days. |
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I was actually making it easier to read I thought lol. I normally ignore a post of it's a wall of text but if someone breaks it up with quotes or bullets I will read it. I guess it's my personal preference then lol.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Yeah, those bullets made it hard to quote each one without putting list markers inside each quote so consider this my revenge.
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A wall of text type of post makes me shut down...it's like the first time I had to read War and Peace lol.
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I feel the same way, based on what we currently know.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions. I appreciate you taking time to hold a dialog with us.
I like what you've done with the Blaster PBAoE toggles. Those powers have always been rather suspect to me. I apologize if the following is too critical and I hae failed to see something: I have to confess I'm not a fan of having a magic number that unlocks instant-sniping. I just don't think it works. It's going to send too many Defender and Corruptor builds scurrying for Tactics. I may hae missed something in the thread that changed things, but with this change Tactics will now be a required power for any Corruptor or Defender build with a Snipe who doesn't happen to be a Time Manipulator. I would personally even vote to just give Blasters a straight blast that completely replaces the snipe, everyone else keeps the snipe and it's made useful in some other way. The +22% hit requirement makes builds significantly less interesting to me. Worse yet, Kismet is an IO that goes in a defense power. If there is any trend I think that does not need reinforcing, it's squishy builds pushed into taking defense powers because of how they synergize with Recharge (thanks to the Luck of the Gambler). Now we're throwing ToHit onto that. Kismet was already a pretty useful IO but this makes it essentially mandatory for any build that is een semi-serious. Regarding +Range to powers, I think thats ok but I would personally vote that that change should apply to the Blaster version ONLY. I say this as someone who only really plays Dominators and Corruptors with any level of seriousness. Give me a reason to want to play Blasters. My Corruptors and especially my Dominators do not need that buff. Note that by boosting sets like Fire Blast on a Corruptor you are defacto eliminating the small advantage Psychic Blast has, because one of the very few advantages of that set is its range. Overall, most of these changes seem to reinforce for me, rather than eliminate, reasons I tend to avoid Blasters in the first place. Perhaps I am missing someting in this thread, but I just am not seeing how they come out ahead. It seems to put Corruptors significantly ahead and increase the range of my Dominators, who in some cases were rolled in place of Blasters. I don't think either Corruptors or Dominators need these buffs at all. (Defenders might, but IMO what they really need is something toset them apart from Corruptors.) |
Like any other good gamer, I'll just play the hand I am dealt with accordingly. If things change like new IO sets, ATOs etc then I will adjust.
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
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Just my two cents here. The changes to snipes and range are good, it doesn't upset me that my corruptors will benefit from these changes as much as/more than my blasters. I enjoy both ATs as they are right now and I will enjoy them both more after the changes. The changes to blaster secondaries sound fun, they've even encouraged me to roll at least 1 new blaster when i24 rolls around.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions. I appreciate you taking time to hold a dialog with us.
I like what you've done with the Blaster PBAoE toggles. Those powers have always been rather suspect to me. I apologize if the following is too critical and I hae failed to see something: I have to confess I'm not a fan of having a magic number that unlocks instant-sniping. I just don't think it works. It's going to send too many Defender and Corruptor builds scurrying for Tactics. I may hae missed something in the thread that changed things, but with this change Tactics will now be a required power for any Corruptor or Defender build with a Snipe who doesn't happen to be a Time Manipulator. I would personally even vote to just give Blasters a straight blast that completely replaces the snipe, everyone else keeps the snipe and it's made useful in some other way. The +22% hit requirement makes builds significantly less interesting to me. Worse yet, Kismet is an IO that goes in a defense power. If there is any trend I think that does not need reinforcing, it's squishy builds pushed into taking defense powers because of how they synergize with Recharge (thanks to the Luck of the Gambler). Now we're throwing ToHit onto that. Kismet was already a pretty useful IO but this makes it essentially mandatory for any build that is een semi-serious. Regarding +Range to powers, I think thats ok but I would personally vote that that change should apply to the Blaster version ONLY. I say this as someone who only really plays Dominators and Corruptors with any level of seriousness. Give me a reason to want to play Blasters. My Corruptors and especially my Dominators do not need that buff. Note that by boosting sets like Fire Blast on a Corruptor you are defacto eliminating the small advantage Psychic Blast has, because one of the very few advantages of that set is its range. Overall, most of these changes seem to reinforce for me, rather than eliminate, reasons I tend to avoid Blasters in the first place. Perhaps I am missing someting in this thread, but I just am not seeing how they come out ahead. It seems to put Corruptors significantly ahead and increase the range of my Dominators, who in some cases were rolled in place of Blasters. I don't think either Corruptors or Dominators need these buffs at all. (Defenders might, but IMO what they really need is something toset them apart from Corruptors.) |
As far as allowing domination to give the insta-snipe, I wouldn't have any problems with that. A full end heal and a buff to my mezzes is already a huge incentive to get a perma-dom, this change won't exactly be tipping the scales for me, that scale got knocked over and stomped on as soon as dominators were made.
I like the snipe change, and I like that it is affecting more than just blaster primaries. They are not proposing to fix blasters with the snipe change, they are trying to make snipes more appealing period, for whatever AT that has the option of taking one.(that said, I am not against there being no magic number at all)
I don't care about the range change, because frankly I am in melee all the time anyway.
And who in their right mind would complain about more leadership toggles floating around? If I didn't predominantly solo, I would definitely account for other peeps running tactics the same way peeps don't worry too much about the iSoftcap with all the barrier buffs and such being tossed out.
Maybe I am missing something, but I thought the addition of sustain was the specific buff to blasters.
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Well, Moonbeam is insta-snipeable. Go Gather Shadows |
Originally Posted by Tater Todd
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Should have added this IMO: IMO, the way to handle this is to create an new IO set for Snipes and have that change how the power works, instead of [...]
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Originally Posted by Tater Todd
I was actually making it easier to read I thought lol. I normally ignore a post of it's a wall of text but if someone breaks it up with quotes or bullets I will read it. I guess it's my personal preference then lol.
A wall of text type of post makes me shut down...it's like the first time I had to read War and Peace lol. |
Was pretty to read though.
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Thanks Raj *sigh*...I think : /. There should be a sarcasm meter on every post so you can see what they are REALLY saying lol.
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Scrapper level hit points!
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Defenders might, but IMO what they really need is something toset them apart from Corruptors.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Another +1 for this, even with a damage reduction.
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Originally Posted by Little_Whorn
+1 to giving Fast-snipe to Dominators upon Domination.
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I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
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Nice to hear. Thanx.
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Originally Posted by Arbiter Hawk
Some Blaster mods do feel a bit low. Whether or not we will change them at this point, I'm not sure - it's a very risky change, because changing class mods changes how every single one of their powers works. If Blaster Effective Health is still found to be wanting after these changes, however, the buffs will continue until performance improves.
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I can see why a Defender, Corr or Blaster would take their Snipe but why would a Dom bother? I'm not taking it because it's not reliable enough for me to drop a power choice over.