Dunno if it got mentioned (even after this thread got a little necroed) but...
One idea that I think could help improve volty...is if there was some kind of target focus mechanic on it...or...something. IE in the same vein as if you were targeting through someone else, volty would target through you and focus fire...attack what you're attacking. Simple...but effective way to leverage it.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
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Turn Volty into a real pet and let him draw his own aggro.. Add a Tesla Cage attack to him. Give Short Circuit its damage up front. Normal the ranges on the Blasts and Tesla Cage ( I believe that the tier 1 is slightly shorter ). Add some damage even minor to Tesla Cage. Give the attacks -recovery PLEASE I mean come on..
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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I know it is hard to accept, but a new player should look at a power like Short Circuit and see it is PBAoE and then look at the secondaries and see melee attacks. Then they could put those facts together and fill their attack chain out with melee attacks.|
Originally Posted by Watchdog
That's not the point. I know how the numbers work, and I'm fine with all that. The difference is that the pacing of ELB's attack chain is bad and Fire's is not.
Think of it from the perspective of a new player. Without veteran powers, a level 10 Fire Blaster has an array of ranged powers up all the time. More blast powers to choose from AND balanced with faster recharge times so that an attack is always up. |
That doesn't work so good for corruptors or defenders, but I am sure they could fill some of that time with powers from their other sets too.
However, I prefer shorter recharges, even though it generally hurts your damage output at the high end. Therefore, I am all for 3 and 6 second recharge attacks for Electric blast (I wanted that on Rad blast too)!
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
IMO swapping out Short Circuit's animation (3s) for Irradiate (1.07s), Heart of Darkness (1.67s) or Power Sink (2.07s) would help Electric immensely.
I don't agree with turning SC into a single target blast. IMO the power is somewhat unique to Electric, just needs to be more effective, particularly in cast time. Someone will probably correct me for being wrong, but SC is one of the only 20ft radius AoE blast powers I can think of, Irradiate and Psionic Tornado being the other major examples. The "rain" powers have a radius of 25tho, so maybe it's feasible to have SC (and Irradiate too) bumped up slightly to 25ft, given their added risk.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I don't agree with turning SC into a single target blast.
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When are you going to stop discriminating against /Devices?!
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
a lovely cottage
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PANCAKE No! This would utterly KILL the set for me. I have a Time/Elec Defender I adore and part of the reason for that is that Short Circuit allows me to drain the endurance of an entire spawn at once. If it became a ST attack then Electrical Blast would be pretty much dependent on Thunderous Blast for AoE Sapping and even with the upcoming nuke changes that won't cut it.|
Originally Posted by Watchdog
This is also part of the reason I advocate turning Short Circuit into an 80ft ST blast.
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Short Circuit is pretty much the linchpin of Electrical Blast. It may not have great single target damage, it may not have great AoE damage (the lack of a cone hurts here) but it does have one thing no other Blast Set has and that is an AWESOME sapping power. I can accept reasonable changes to bring the set up to par but if you remove the sapping from Electrical Blast then it's pretty much useless as a set since even with a third ST blast most of the other sets will be better (i.e. Ice and BR offer more St damage with about the same AoE, Rad offers more AoE and about the same ST damage, etc.).
Now I can accept making some changes to Short Circuit (such as shorter cast time). I could even accept making it a ranged AoE (although I'd really hate the smaller radius that would almost certainly come with it) but I could not tolerate making it a single target attack.
Okay, so how about converting Zapp to a standard 80ft ST blast? All I'm looking for from the set is a ranged attack chain that doesn't suck.
You're right. Short Circuit still has utility for Defenders. I overlooked that. This is a Blaster forum. Look at it as a Blaster set. What would you suggest to fix its shortcomings?
Global @Watchdog
Front load the damage. Done. Don't change short circuit. Even on blasters, it's still the quintessential sapping power in the set. The animation time could probably be brought down a bit too.
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Short Circuit? 1.97 cast time and -50% maxend debuff for 10 seconds.
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Originally Posted by Watchdog
Okay, so how about converting Zapp to a standard 80ft ST blast? All I'm looking for from the set is a ranged attack chain that doesn't suck.
You're right. Short Circuit still has utility for Defenders. I overlooked that. This is a Blaster forum. Look at it as a Blaster set. What would you suggest to fix its shortcomings? |
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I'd have no problem with that. In fact in another thread I argued for making that change to ALL of the snipes since I find the current FastSnipe mechanic to be unpalatable due to the inconsistent application between ATs and Powersets.|
Originally Posted by Watchdog
Okay, so how about converting Zapp to a standard 80ft ST blast? All I'm looking for from the set is a ranged attack chain that doesn't suck.
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| You're right. Short Circuit still has utility for Defenders. I overlooked that. This is a Blaster forum. Look at it as a Blaster set. What would you suggest to fix its shortcomings? |
I posted my wishlist for Electrical earlier in the thread but I may as well do it again since you asked. These changes assume that the Snipe changes go live roughly as is.
First the small changes:
1. Decrease the cast time for Short Circuit and change it so that it deals about 50% of it's damage up front. This makes it easier and safer for Blasters to use.
2. Increase the damage on VS, possibly by adding a chain effect or just a straight damage boost, decrease the cast time (and maybe change it so it just appears next to you rather than needing a summon location declared), increase it's movement speed.
Now the big one. Remove Aim and replace it with a new power called Charge Up (because I suck at naming things). Charge Up would provide a moderate To Hit Buff (enough to hit FastSnipe with little or no slotting) and a small damage buff (probably less than 20%). Duration would be 30 seconds and recharge 90 seconds. While Charge Up is active Charged Bolts, Lightning Bolt, Zapp and Ball Lighting all have a chance to Chain and hit additional targets. I'm thinking something like 30% for Charged Bolts, 50% for Lightning Bolt, 100% for Zapp and maybe 10% per target for Ball Lightning (the Ball Lightning chain effect would only hit one target for each chain proc, not a full AoE).
The general effect of this change would be two-fold. First Electrical Blast using SOs gets FastSnipe two-thirds of the time on it's own about 90% of the time if Charge Up is cycled with Build Up (you can probably hit 100% with IOs). This would help with the single target strength of the set by allowing it to use Zapp to make up for the lack of a third ST blast. By adding chaining to it's single target attacks and Ball Lightning it gets a bit more AoE strength at range. An IO build with decent recharge should find it possible to get Charge Up permanent giving more options for IO'ing. Finally it doesn't technically break the cottage rule (Charge Up still buffs To Hit and Damage).
That's a neat idea. I guess the one problem I have with that is having a Blaster set that relies on a steady stream of self-buffs to maximize its effectiveness. In other words, I see a reality where every 30-60 seconds I'm having to cycle a short-duration power to make my ranged powers more worthwhile.
Those types of game mechanics irk me a bit. I've never read a comic where the hero stopped every 45 seconds to pump himself up, y'know? Or a super-strong hero that paused every 2 minutes to catch his breath. 
I agree with you on the snipe change. Just give us another attack and scrap the snipe. Having to check an obscure statistic before knowing how a power will behave seems similarly distracting/frustrating.
As for Short Circuit, I disagree on its utility for Blasters. On teams, even at the lowest levels, fights are over so fast that it really has no utility. It does something useful, but that something is glossed over by the fact that it happened 5 seconds into a 12-second fight where the enemies' endurance was never a factor to begin with.
It wasn't like that when the game was first released. Short Circuit had great utility back then because we weren't so overpowered and its effect was more powerful. I absolutely overlooked its current utility to Defenders, so maybe it's not the power to tinker with. But in its current iteration (and especially if something is done to fix ELB's attack chain problem) I think it ends up being a power many Blasters skip.
Again, I really like the your idea in general, I just don't want a high-maintenance Blaster that I have to constantly self-buff. I love the idea of attacks jumping to other targets on occasion, and maybe a little of that can offset the current uselessness of the secondary effect.
But in general, I'm just looking for a decent attack chain. The 4/8/16 chain is horrible, predictable, and repetitive. I want to be able to actually be a Blaster, not a guy who occasionally blasts as he's running in and out of mobs to sap and punch stuff.
I don't mind sapping and punching. It's kinda fun. But the set is called "Blaster." I don't think it's out of the question to have a ranged chain that embraces that concept.
Global @Watchdog
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It depends a lot on the team. Yes, in many situations teams run at low difficulty so sapping doesn't mean much (but then neither do a lot of Defender debuffs). But at the other end of the scale I've been on teams where a Blaster using Short Circuit was doing a LOT of the work at keeping the team alive (in one memorable case the team was lacking in support but did have two E/E Blasters who would just run in and drain the spawn so fast that they were barely attacking).|
Originally Posted by Watchdog
As for Short Circuit, I disagree on its utility for Blasters. On teams, even at the lowest levels, fights are over so fast that it really has no utility. It does something useful, but that something is glossed over by the fact that it happened 5 seconds into a 12-second fight where the enemies' endurance was never a factor to begin with.
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I'll also add that you're focusing on team play. Solo Short Circuit is an excellent survival tool for a Blaster.
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| Again, I really like the your idea in general, I just don't want a high-maintenance Blaster that I have to constantly self-buff. I love the idea of attacks jumping to other targets on occasion, and maybe a little of that can offset the current uselessness of the secondary effect. |
I can get that you don't care for self buffs but in that case you should probably just play an AR/Dev Blaster and be done with it because EVERY Blaster is reliant on self buffs to some degree (and more so with the upcoming survivability changes). AR/Dev has the advantage that all its self buffs are toggles.
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| But in general, I'm just looking for a decent attack chain. The 4/8/16 chain is horrible, predictable, and repetitive. I want to be able to actually be a Blaster, not a guy who occasionally blasts as he's running in and out of mobs to sap and punch stuff. |
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Just IMO, if a set is performing that well it either is slumming it or so powerful it doesn't really need buffs at all. A fight against a fairly large group on some of my better characters at around +4x8 takes a minimum of a minute or so. It's possible to go faster by dialing down difficulty, but the point of added survivability is being able to dial it up.|
Originally Posted by Watchdog
As for Short Circuit, I disagree on its utility for Blasters. On teams, even at the lowest levels, fights are over so fast that it really has no utility. It does something useful, but that something is glossed over by the fact that it happened 5 seconds into a 12-second fight where the enemies' endurance was never a factor to begin with.
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EDIT: Sorry, I missed that you were talking about teams. But I still disagree that endurance drain is not that useful, or that most fights last only around 12 seconds.
PS: I wonder if it would be too overpowered for Voltaic Sentinel to pick up Conductive Aura, the toggle that appears in Electric Control. That power causes constant endurance drain to 10 targets in range. It would seem to be a major improvement to Electric Blast across the board. I just wonder if it is "too" major.
Changing short circuit in to a single target power trades a single target deficiency in the set for an area damage one. Without short circuit, the set would only have ball lightning and the nuke for area damage. Increasing the set's single target damage would be much more easily done by buffing tesla cage and voltaic sentinel.
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That is hot.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
PS: I wonder if it would be too overpowered for Voltaic Sentinel to pick up Conductive Aura, the toggle that appears in Electric Control. That power causes constant endurance drain to 10 targets in range. It would seem to be a major improvement to Electric Blast across the board. I just wonder if it is "too" major.
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Which gives Short Circuit situational utility on teams with no support. We can all sit here and fondly recall that one time, at band camp, when Short Circuit was an awesome power. And I get that it still has some utility now, but its actual utility for a Blaster is extremely situational at best.| But at the other end of the scale I've been on teams where a Blaster using Short Circuit was doing a LOT of the work at keeping the team alive |
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| Solo Short Circuit is an excellent survival tool for a Blaster. |
Situationally, yes, that pesky Elite Boss that's resistant to holds but susceptible to drain is a perfect candidate for SC. I get that, and like I said it DOES have some utility. But I can just as easily choose another power, save the slots, and pop a couple inspirations to drop that EB.
Again, this is a set with a perma-capable hold and access to many other nifty tools that can easily replace the utility of SC. And I'm not opposed to keeping SC around with some improvements. This was just one "what if" I had to increase the set's ranged attack chain.
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| The majority of Blasters are relying on using Aim and Build Up every 45 seconds to maximize their damage. |
I think a lot of Blasters play in most situations without a lot of concern for those types of powers, and that it should not be a mechanic that the devs should focus on. I'm sorry, but I think it's silly that very soon we might have a situation where every blaster is stopping every 30 seconds to do the Aim/Buildup dance and/or randomly clap their hands for a survival buff. It's going to look like a gaggle of Tourrette sufferers.
It's silly.
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| Pretty much every Blast set has three single target attacks with 4/8/10 second recharge. |
I want a ranged attack chain that does not suck. ELB's current attack chain sucks, and it can only be called an attack chain if you include a 16-second AoE that MUST be used almost constantly as a single-target attack.
I've been playing Water Blast over the last few days, and with i24 it'll have 5 80ft ranged attacks in its chain (with 3/7/8/10/16 recharge), plus a short-range cone for giggles. And that's before you figure the nuke in. Fire will have 4 80-footers plus the snipe tweak, with a 2/4/10/16 cycle.
ELB will have its same crappy 4/8/16 chain, along with a snipe that you can maybe use mid-combat if it's a full moon and there are two or more runners on base.
I want a ranged attack chain. It doesn't have to be as cool and flashy as a 3/7/8/10/16 chain with a built-in heal and a stacking mechanic that adds extra damage and effects. I just want another attack to form an actual, working ranged chain that isn't horrible.
And the recharge times could use a little love, as well. Since you're confused about what I want, I'll elaborate on this a bit, too.
I'm a lvl 15 Water Blaster looking at a standard solo spawn. I might open with my AoE for the knockdown to open things up. Depending on who falls down, I might polish off a minion real quick or focus on dropping the LT. As this unfolds, because I have more powers to choose from AND quicker recharge times, I'm able to choose the power I want next, or the one I need to drop the next target. I'm able to think a move or two ahead, adding a little tactical/strategic fun to the mix, and I can heal myself without skipping a beat. And none of this factors in the Tidal Power mechanic, which also adds to the fun and tactics.
I'm a lvl 15 Electricity Blaster looking at a standard solo spawn. Every encounter is the same. I have to open with my Snipe because otherwise I'll never use it. Then I'll chase it with my AoE just to get its recharge started since I only have 3 attacks to choose from. My ranged attacks don't have secondary effects that help me, and my point blank power forces me to take damage I have no heal for. So after the AoE, I have to always choose the guy who poses the largest threat, fire my next two blasts, which won't drop him because he's a LT, so I kite for a moment to wait for something to recharge. And that's how the fight ends, hitting whichever power recharges next. No real tactics, just a repetitive sequence of events that gets old quick.
If the recharge times were a bit more palatable, that would help some. It wouldn't be a solution, but it sure as hell wouldn't hurt. What I really need is another attack in addition to the streamlined recharges so that I can choose powers strategically and efficiently.
Again, this is strictly looking at it as a ranged set. I know I can factor in punches and stuff from my secondary, but so can the blasters that have awesome ranged attack chains. That isn't balance. That's ignoring the long-standing problems of existing sets while fixing other sets AND rolling out new sets that make these problems seem worse.
My Electricity Blaster was my first toon 8+ years ago and I still enjoy playing him at times. But now that I've played all the Blaster sets a bunch, most to 50, I'm at a point where I look at Electricity and simply cannot explain away its deficiencies anymore. I have a soft spot for it, but I'd never recommend it to a new player because it is literally one of the very worst blaster primaries, and its ranged attack chain is far and away its most glaring issue, especially when compared to those of the vast majority of other sets.
Sorry for the novel, but I'm trying my best to explain myself...
Global @Watchdog
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Plenty of Blasters are able to move in close to foes without holding them first and to some degree this is where your secondary comes into play.|
Originally Posted by Watchdog
No, it's a redundant survival tool for a Blaster. When solo, it's only safe to go point blank when your target is held. A held target can remain held, as all Electricity blasters have at least one, and upwards of three, good perma-capable holds to choose from.
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Pretty much every Blaster Secondary has a power that makes using Short Circuit safer:
Devices: Smoke and CD let you get the first strike, Caltrops keeps enemies away from you
Electrical: Short Circuit + Power Sink means you can drain them completely at once rather than needing two cycles of Short Circuit
Energy: Power Boost + Short Circuit also means you don't need two cycles of Short Circuit
Ice: Chilling Embrace and Ice Patch help keep them from attacking while you sap (and CE is getting buffed in terms of radius in I24), Frozen Aura also offers some possibilities if combined with Stealth.
Mental: You can use Drain Psyche at the same time to handle any damage you took.
Fire: Like Caltrops Hot Feet encourages foes to move away form you and slows them down.
Dark: Ok, I can't think of anything but at least you're moving into melee range to use Soul Drain anyway.
In fact overall I would say that Blasters have an easier time leveraging Short Circuit than Defenders. While specific Defender priamries have an easier time than Blasters they don't all have powers that make running into melee range a good idea.
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That's an assumption, just like those that assume that everyone takes VS. Not everyone uses Aim and Buildup every time they're up. In fact, I would argue that a very significant percentage don't; that use them primarily when gearing up for a snipe or nuke, or in those teams where you're standing there shooting an AV for a half hour and have nothing better to do but pop whatever powers you have handy. I think a lot of Blasters play in most situations without a lot of concern for those types of powers, and that it should not be a mechanic that the devs should focus on. I'm sorry, but I think it's silly that very soon we might have a situation where every blaster is stopping every 30 seconds to do the Aim/Buildup dance and/or randomly clap their hands for a survival buff. It's going to look like a gaggle of Tourrette sufferers. |
I'll also add that I have no issue with the idea that the game is balanced around the idea that you are using certain tools in your powerset. If Electrical gets a chunk of it's ST damage form VS then I'm fine with that.
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| I want a ranged attack chain that does not suck. ELB's current attack chain sucks, and it can only be called an attack chain if you include a 16-second AoE that MUST be used almost constantly as a single-target attack. |
Arbiter Hawk has discussed pushing more damage into VS. While that works from a numbers point of view I'm not a huge fan of it from an actual play-style point of view. Uncontrolled single target damage is a LOT less useful than an actual attack. There are some other options here (such as combining it with a Haunt style taunt mechanic) but those are more significant changes.
Converting Zapp to a non-snipe power is also a viable option but, in general, I think if this is done then all of the snipes should be similarly changed.
"Having to check an obscure statistic before knowing how a power will behave seems similarly distracting/frustrating."
Don't you think that the Dev's will be adding the orange "ready" circle to the snipes, to indicate that FastSnipe is ready to go? We're already seeing that in many powersets. That would be a quick and easy way to ascertain how the power will behave. I am excited to see the change to Zap, it will be my 3rd tier ranged attack. I currently don't have it but will be respecing into it.
I will add that I would prefer not losing my Short Circuit, despite the shortcomings already mentioned. I enjoy the challenge of sapping groups and occasionally faceplanting. I wouldn't mind a shorter activation time. But I've spent 5 years playing the set as a "jump in and out of melee" combo. I remember long ago reading not to neglect your secondary and I still live by that creed.
If single target range-only damage is the priority, then I can't say that elec. is the powerset for you. There are many other sets that can satisfy that particular need.
@TriNitroToluene.
@DynaMight
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They have already stated that they will do this.
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Originally Posted by TriNitroToluene
Don't you think that the Dev's will be adding the orange "ready" circle to the snipes, to indicate that FastSnipe is ready to go? We're already seeing that in many powersets. That would be a quick and easy way to ascertain how the power will behave. I am excited to see the change to Zap, it will be my 3rd tier ranged attack. I currently don't have it but will be respecing into it.
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One thing that's overlooked: the devs have buffed electric blast quite a bit. Just, not for us. We could take some cues from how the devs buff electric blasting enemies to make them more appropriately challenging.
For instance, plenty of electric blasting and electric meleeing enemies get a 100% chance to debuff recovery on every single attack. (Fair is fair, nice tier 9 aside, electric melee's side effect is crummy, and besides, we want electric manipulation buffed too, right?) Players only get that sweet 100% chance to debuff recovery in Short Circuit, Tesla Cage, and the freakin' nuke, meaning all our other recovery debuffs, even Power Sink, are unreliable at best.
There's also a built-in PC vs NPC inequality in the value on those recovery debuffs. -100% recovery is awesome for enemies because it's exactly what they need to kill our recovery. Well, okay, there's Stamina, but close enough. On the other hand, -100% recovery has unrealized potential for PCs, because enhancement slotting and power boosting can't meaningfully improve that except against a small slice of NPC targets that are resistant but not immune. PCs pay a heavy price for the privilege of enhancement slotting (namely, rather low base damage values, among other things), but in the case of recovery debuffing, get little benefit out of it.
A potential improvement would be to reduce the value of the recovery debuffs, while making the chance of the debuff landing 100%, and the duration of the debuff a decent length, stackable. This makes endmod enhancements in electric attacks, should you choose to go that route, pay off.
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Ugh. Don't get me started on how all end draining NPCs have this.
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Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent
-100% recovery is awesome for enemies because it's exactly what they need to kill our recovery.
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Ultimately this topic isn't worth worrying about, and I regret making it. The devs don't care about set balance anyway.
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What?|
Originally Posted by Rakeeb
Ultimately this topic isn't worth worrying about, and I regret making it. The devs don't care about set balance anyway.
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The sheer amount of ignorance that statement requires is mind-boggling.
I'm sorry, but really?
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Originally Posted by Rakeeb
Ultimately this topic isn't worth worrying about, and I regret making it. The devs don't care about set balance anyway.
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Originally Posted by Mad Grim
What?
The sheer amount of ignorance that statement requires is mind-boggling. I'm sorry, but really? |
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
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Something funny. |
Alternatively, since there are a few sets that don't have a snipe, why not just turn Zapp into a regular 80ft ST blast? Use the Power Blast animation with the beam from Shocking Bolt. I don't even care if it's a true Tier 3-level blast. The set just needs another ranged attack to form a solid ranged attack chain.
Keep the recharge of the other attacks balanced as they are, give Zapp a 10-second timer (or less if the DMG isn't Tier 3), and leave everything else as-is.
Global @Watchdog