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When you think about it, this does support my statement but nobody is going to go to jail over it in the end and that's good. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
The day before the coffee talk, Arbiter Hawk told me exactly the same thing he said about DP during the coffee talk: Drain Psyche is a power far too powerful that they would never let people have today, but for that specific power it would also be too much trouble to nerf for too little benefit.
Arbiter Hawk had no particular reason to lie to me in that context. |
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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First paragraph, make it so Brutes can apply gauntlet and taunt to a maximum of 10 yet through presence and more they can still aggro cap.|
Originally Posted by Vitality
What do you mean in your first paragraph?
As for your second paragraph...if said Brute is just "blanket thinking"...which I'm assuming it means just mindlessly attacking...than the Tanker/tank who thinks like a tank should have better control through their use of Taunt. No need to lower Brutes inherent taunt duration. The only way for a Tanker (assuming they have and use Taunt) to lose agro to a Brute...is if that Brute is built for tanking as well (meaning the have Taunt and use it). I don't see why Tankers have a problem with this. You picked the Tanker AT to have the best inherent survivability and assumingly to have the ability to protect your team. If some Brute that is also built for tanking takes some of your agro, why do you care? If they can survive the agro (assuming they can or they shouldn't have taken Taunt) then why does it bother you? The only thing I can think of is because said Tanker didn't choose the Tanker AT to protect his team when needed...they choose it to be the center of attention. I don't believe Brutes need to be nerfed for the Tanker AT to stick out...I think the Tanker AT needs "buffed" in a way that (as someone previously mentioned) makes them more unique. |
Second paragraph, allow AVs to resist Brutes Gauntlet better than they would Tankers gauntlet. Brutes with a player who thinks like a Scrapper often do not have taunt or use it in a unproductive/counter-productive manner.
Your only way for a Tanker to lose aggro to a Brute is actually wrong. I can meet you ingame and prove it.
Brutes are imo OP.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I quite like Arcana's idea about protecting the team the closer they are to the tank, but I agree with Johnny that an endurance discount won't really have an effect in practice, because you can't then spend that extra endurance on attacking to any real degree. And not many people were raving about how awesome the Defenders old inherant was.
But I think that (Assuming Brutes aren't going to see any nerfs at all) there needs to be a slight mechanic change in the game to make Tankers more needed, as well as the changes to tankers themselves.
I am starting to get behind the idea of tankers doing more damage, though possibly mitigated by something like 'the more people close to the tanker the more of that damage bonus the tanker sacrifices to keep them alive, and the more taunt bonus they get'. So a solo tank can do good damage, but then in a team situation will have all the tools to keep people out of danger. It has occured to me that this will not reduce redundancy when you have 2 tanks, so would need to add some of that damage back for every toon in range that was also a tanker.
However that doesn't remove the fact that many people aren't in real danger to begin with aside from death patches, and AV's that have had to be given overpowered powers.
So I would add onto this that Tankers should have some kind of ability to mitigate the effects of the special trial mechanics where people die instantly. Something where they have to be active but where they can save someone who gets 'marked for death' if they are paying attention. Something like 'intercept' where the tanker gets the damage instead and resists most of it but still gets hurt (Maybe the inherant gives them resistance to unresistable damage equal to the average of all the other resists or something). Then the tanker can save the team, but in turn will now be relying on the team helping them out to get back up to full health.
It is a slight nod to the holy trinity, but I don't think too much.
I would personally accompany this with a lowering of brute caps (No need to really touch the base numbers) which allows for a tank to have a proper survivability advantage on teams. If the resist caps are (Tank>Brute>Scrapper) 90/85/80 then I think the damage modifiers should work in a similar ratio (A few % out to account for HP), but in reverse order.
Without something unique though I don't think there is anything short of giving tankers a massive damage buff that will remove the question of 'why not bring a brute instead?'.
Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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Except how would you do this given the game's mechanics? I don't think that the aggro cap can tell what sources are driving it, so how would it know if Brutes were generating the aggro from their version of gauntlet or through pool powers? Everything just goes on a Threat list, and once over 17, nothing goes on that list (or, actually, it's the 17 highest threat values, which complicates things further). So I don't think that the first one is doable, although all other ATs could have a aggro cap lower than a Tankers, I don't think lowering other AT's aggro cap is the way to go. Otherwise, you could be attacking 16 enemies, and only being attacked by 10.|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
First paragraph, make it so Brutes can apply gauntlet and taunt to a maximum of 10 yet through presence and more they can still aggro cap.
Second paragraph, allow AVs to resist Brutes Gauntlet better than they would Tankers gauntlet. Brutes with a player who thinks like a Scrapper often do not have taunt or use it in a unproductive/counter-productive manner. Your only way for a Tanker to lose aggro to a Brute is actually wrong. I can meet you ingame and prove it. Brutes are imo OP. |
Secondly, there's no way for an AV to selectively resist an effect based on the target. So to do this, you'd have to give AVs Taunt resistance, and then give Tankers' taunt effects a higher value when used against AVs. But that would affect more than just Brutes, and what if a team/league doesn't have a Tanker on it? Then does the AV attack everything that would be generating more Threat than the Brute would be? What about MMs that use Provoke to be Tankerminds for their pets?
Brutes may be OP (and I tend to think they are), but I don't think that your suggestions would fix the actual problem, while they'd create many more.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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I'd give a very provisional "maybe" to Arcana's idea about Tankers buffing the defences of nearby allies; my main problem is purely that the game isn't exactly short of such buffs these days, and while it might make a -very- small difference to the perceptions of people towards inviting a Tanker to the team, it wouldn't really add much to the play experience of those playing the Tanker themselves. It just doesn't sound like much fun. It would be worth testing to see if I'm wrong on this, however.|
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
I quite like Arcana's idea about protecting the team the closer they are to the tank, but I agree with Johnny that an endurance discount won't really have an effect in practice, because you can't then spend that extra endurance on attacking to any real degree. And not many people were raving about how awesome the Defenders old inherant was.
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I'm really just sceptical that the developers would want to make teaming a sturdier experience for us all on average; this game already allows us a lot more leeway on that metric than most games.
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| I am starting to get behind the idea of tankers doing more damage, though possibly mitigated by something like 'the more people close to the tanker the more of that damage bonus the tanker sacrifices to keep them alive, and the more taunt bonus they get'. So a solo tank can do good damage, but then in a team situation will have all the tools to keep people out of danger. It has occured to me that this will not reduce redundancy when you have 2 tanks, so would need to add some of that damage back for every toon in range that was also a tanker. |
One solution to the problem of Tanker "scaling", ie having more than one on the team, that's just occured to me - having the buff damage/debuff HP triggered only when a non-Tanker joins a team - we see a similar effect with Kheldians where having different ATs on the team triggers different effects.
So: for each team-member that is not also a Tanker on the team, the Tanker gains HP but loses damage. Might be nice to try an all-Tanker team in that case.
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| So I would add onto this that Tankers should have some kind of ability to mitigate the effects of the special trial mechanics where people die instantly. Something where they have to be active but where they can save someone who gets 'marked for death' if they are paying attention. Something like 'intercept' where the tanker gets the damage instead and resists most of it but still gets hurt (Maybe the inherant gives them resistance to unresistable damage equal to the average of all the other resists or something). Then the tanker can save the team, but in turn will now be relying on the team helping them out to get back up to full health. |
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| I would personally accompany this with a lowering of brute caps (No need to really touch the base numbers) which allows for a tank to have a proper survivability advantage on teams. If the resist caps are (Tank>Brute>Scrapper) 90/85/80 then I think the damage modifiers should work in a similar ratio (A few % out to account for HP), but in reverse order. |
-Captain_Aegis aka @Captain Valiant EU
Resist caps are 90/90/75 for tank/brute/Scrapper respectively.
Currently Playing:
Rage King - SS/Regen Brute (50+3)
Soulfire Darkness - Dark/Fire Tank (50+2)
Deaths Final Embrace - Kat/Dark Brute (50+3)
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I deleted a bit in my post where I had a suggestion for actually making the game a bit more dangerous to compensate. I was thinking something along the lines of 5-10% of AV damage being unresistable (And maybe smaller portions of EB/Boss damage), unless you are stood near a tank. This would make the game harder overall, but would further create a gap for tankers to be in.|
Originally Posted by Captain_Aegis
I'd give a very provisional "maybe" to Arcana's idea about Tankers buffing the defences of nearby allies; my main problem is purely that the game isn't exactly short of such buffs these days, and while it might make a -very- small difference to the perceptions of people towards inviting a Tanker to the team, it wouldn't really add much to the play experience of those playing the Tanker themselves. It just doesn't sound like much fun. It would be worth testing to see if I'm wrong on this, however.
I'm really just sceptical that the developers would want to make teaming a sturdier experience for us all on average; this game already allows us a lot more leeway on that metric than most games. |
As for making it fun for the tanker I don't know about other people but when I first made a tanker in CoX (And when I make them in other games) I do so knowing full well that the rest of the team will be doing the work, and that as long as I can concentrate on holding aggro, not getting killed and keeping them alive I have done my job.
My idea for the special damage mechanic was meant to add a bit of fun to the play more than this however. But I agree that it would probably be a nightmare to code.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Aegis
This is another solution to the unfair capping issue: speaking as someone who plays all the melee ATs regularly, I'm not terribly keen on it, for purely emotional reasons. It's as fair as raising the Tanker offensive caps, it's just I just enjoy my Brutes where they are. It may well be that the Dev's decide that it's Brutes that are the outlier, as Arcanaville put it, and alter them instead.
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Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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Ah I got the scrapper cap wrong |
Originally Posted by planet_J
Resist caps are 90/90/75 for tank/brute/Scrapper respectively.
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I think they 'should' be 90/80/75 but 90/85/75 is the best compromise.
Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"
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I never understood qubbles over tankers and brutes at the caps. If you're capped out, then pretty much so is the rest of the team, and at that point individual performance is just another body left behind in your team's wake.
Well, OK, I kinda understand, but I doubt those thoughts would be taken kindly.
Blood Widow Ricki * Tide Shifter * T-34 * Opposite Reaction * Shaolin Midnight * ChernobylCheerleader
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It's a simple thing: some of people who play Tankers a lot, such as myself, don't want to feel like we're being idiots for not re-rolling our character concept as a Brute. |
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
I never understood qubbles over tankers and brutes at the caps. If you're capped out, then pretty much so is the rest of the team, and at that point individual performance is just another body left behind in your team's wake.
Well, OK, I kinda understand, but I doubt those thoughts would be taken kindly. |
Yes, I'm being a little unfair there, and no, I don't often feel that way (just sometimes running Incarnate content on my main Tanker or his Brute evil twin) but if you want the gut, irrational, emotive reason, then that's it.
-Captain_Aegis aka @Captain Valiant EU
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That's not what I was implying if I am reading this right. I think Brutes aggro cap should remain 17. I think all ATs aggro cap should remain 17 but only Tankers effect the total of 17 with Taunt and Gauntlet. Brutes can say aggro 17 but only 10 with the full threat mechanic. I am not sure if it's doable. I didn't create the engine but it will make for some unpredictability in the game and at least when a Tank consolidates 17 you are safer than when a Brute consolidates 17.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Except how would you do this given the game's mechanics? I don't think that the aggro cap can tell what sources are driving it, so how would it know if Brutes were generating the aggro from their version of gauntlet or through pool powers? Everything just goes on a Threat list, and once over 17, nothing goes on that list (or, actually, it's the 17 highest threat values, which complicates things further). So I don't think that the first one is doable, although all other ATs could have a aggro cap lower than a Tankers, I don't think lowering other AT's aggro cap is the way to go. Otherwise, you could be attacking 16 enemies, and only being attacked by 10.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Secondly, there's no way for an AV to selectively resist an effect based on the target. So to do this, you'd have to give AVs Taunt resistance, and then give Tankers' taunt effects a higher value when used against AVs.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
But that would affect more than just Brutes, and what if a team/league doesn't have a Tanker on it? Then does the AV attack everything that would be generating more Threat than the Brute would be? What about MMs that use Provoke to be Tankerminds for their pets?
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Brutes may be OP (and I tend to think they are), but I don't think that your suggestions would fix the actual problem, while they'd create many more.
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I do believe that the threat calculation can be redesigned to make the Tanker AT stand out better as a Tanking AT. Tanking is not standing there and mitigating hits idly, it's dictating the battle through threat control. Atleast that's how I have seen it for years and thinking that way has always helped me solve my own problems.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Tank is a playstyle...it's even shown that way in the new character creation screen.|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
No nothing should be generating more threat than a Brute if they took taunt versus an AV. Taunt doesn't change, only gauntlet changes. Brutes gauntlet can be still powerful against an AV, as powerful even now just not as powerful as a Tanks. A Brute shouldn't be able to Tank for a Tank. I mean what the hell? Tanks tank don't they.
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A Brute can be a Tank.
Being a Tanker does not make you a Tank.
Is it proven that a Brute who is just attacking an AV will steal the agro from a Tanker who is attacking and taunting (with enhanced Taunt) said AV?
For the Devs to do what you're suggestion (at least how I read it), it would require a fundamental change to the Threat formula, and I REALLY don't want the devs to fiddle with something that fundamental. Because if they break it, it messes up everyone.
There's currently no way for the game to determine how Threat is being generated (i.e. if it's by a Taunt power or a gauntlet effect or just damage). To change Brutes so that they can only get and maintain aggro on up to ten enemies from their gauntlet effect would require a fundamental change to how those powers work, including writing a lot of new code for every attack and aura for that AT.
The Threat formula just isn't (according to my understanding of it) complex enough to handle what you're asking it to do. And any changes to it could fundamentally break how Threat is handled. So I'd rather go a different direction than that.
And remember: Gauntlet isn't a thing. It's a collection of effects that increase the TauntDurationRemaining value on enemies. And whether from attacks, auras, or Taunt, it's the same effect.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Not proven, no. But it can happen. It depends on a lot of factors, but the chance of that happening are low. However, given similar slotting and playstyle (meaning if both the Brute and Tanker are taunting and attacking), then the Brute can definitely steal aggro if they've got a bunch of Fury. As soon as the Brute is doing twice the damage of the Tanker + 1 damage, the Brute will steal the aggro.
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Originally Posted by Vitality
Tank is a playstyle...it's even shown that way in the new character creation screen.
A Brute can be a Tank. Being a Tanker does not make you a Tank. Is it proven that a Brute who is just attacking an AV will steal the agro from a Tanker who is attacking and taunting (with enhanced Taunt) said AV? |
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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That's understandable...if the Brute is built for tanking (having Taunt enhanced and using it...while also being able to survive agro) then that's fine in my opinion.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Not proven, no. But it can happen. It depends on a lot of factors, but the chance of that happening are low. However, given similar slotting and playstyle (meaning if both the Brute and Tanker are taunting and attacking), then the Brute can definitely steal aggro if they've got a bunch of Fury. As soon as the Brute is doing twice the damage of the Tanker + 1 damage, the Brute will steal the aggro.
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Tankers who have a problem with losing agro to the "Brute built for tanking" are just players who choose the Tanker AT to be the center of attention. (my opinion of course)
A Tanker who choose that AT to protect his team shouldn't have a problem with someone who can handle the agro they generate. If there is no need to protect that player...there is no need to protect that player...and you should be happy.
However, if a Tanker who is attacking and taunting an AV (with enhanced taunt) and they lose agro of said AV to a Brute who is doing nothing but attacking...then we are looking at a scenario where the power Taunt needs to be buffed itself for both the Tanker and the Brute.
I think Taunt should be "The Tanking Power".
A Tanker who uses Taunt should only lose the agro of the taunted enemies to a character using that same Taunt while also dealing more damage. (which would be a Tanker or Brute using Taunt and dealing more damage)
This is why I think Tankers Taunt should have it's max targets and radius buffed.
That way...a "Brute built for tanking" could still potentially take agro from Tanker...but that Tanker can protect the players who need protection much more efficiently than any Brute.
(All this being said...I also believe Tankers need their damage cap raised)
Well, I will admit that I think that if a Brute built for Tanking can steal aggro from a Tanker built for Tanking, then we have a problem. However, that situation is fairly rare in actual play. But I do still think that it is an issue. Raising the Tanker's taunt durations across the board (attacks, auras, Taunt power) by a second would largely eliminate this problem. But I don't think that is all that is necessary, or that even that should be done.
Quite honestly, I'd want to know exactly what was the problem before discussing a solution. I mean, even in my consolidated Tanker improvements thread, people are all over the place with their suggestions. Tankers should have better survivability. Tankers should have more aggro control. Tankers should have more debuffs. Tankers should have more offense. Tankers should be easier on the endurance.
If the Devs ar going to look to "fix" Tankers, it would help to have an actual issue to fix. I think that several people (including Johnny) have some good ideas that will fix A problem. I just don't know if it will fix THE problem. Or whether there is a problem at all. If the Tanker community is so disjointed in how they want to fix the issue, it may be that there is no issue at all.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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The potential problem I see with that...is Brutes built for tanking no longer wanting to team with Tankers...with Fury and all that.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Well, I will admit that I think that if a Brute built for Tanking can steal aggro from a Tanker built for Tanking, then we have a problem. However, that situation is fairly rare in actual play. But I do still think that it is an issue. Raising the Tanker's taunt durations across the board (attacks, auras, Taunt power) by a second would largely eliminate this problem. But I don't think that is all that is necessary, or that even that should be done.
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It almost brings up a situation where bringing in a Tanker on the same team with a Brute built for tanking would lower the efficiency of the team...by way of lowering said Brutes damage output.
Going back to my idea of buffing the max targets and radius of Tankers Taunt...
...this would potentially make any team more efficient.
Imagine the idea of the Tanker grabbing max cap agro in 1.67s (using mids time)...allowing certain players to unleash their aoes right away without any worry of getting agro. (assuming that some players wait till most of the agro is accounted for before using aoe's) This would also allow the Tanker itself to focus more on doing damage...indirectly increasing their damage output.
This way...said Tanker would still "share" some of the agro with a Brute built for tanking...but that Brute would never be able to grab the initial agro the way a Tanker can.
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90/85/75 is where it should be. |
Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
Ah I got the scrapper cap wrong
I think they 'should' be 90/80/75 but 90/85/75 is the best compromise. |
I'd prefer 90/85/80, but I doubt that will happen (80 for scrappers and stalkers)
90/80/75 would be a little unfair when you consider that a perma Light Form Peacebringer would suddenly be tougher than most brutes without even really trying that hard. They're already tougher than a Scrapper, and Perma Light Form isn't that hard to do.
Light Form can cap all damage resistance all by itself, and EAT resistance caps are 85%.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Actually, people are just taking for granted that they are.|
Originally Posted by Grae Knight
So I hear tankers are getting buffed.
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The only thing the devs said was that Tankers would be the next AT "looked at".
That doesn't necessarily mean they're looking at them to buff or improve them.
Considering the AT's track record, I wouldn't be surprised if some mechanic they cook up doesn't find it's way to Scrappers or a brand new AT instead, a la Fury.
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A Brute can Tank for a team but shouldn't be as good as a Tanker. |
Originally Posted by Vitality
Tank is a playstyle...it's even shown that way in the new character creation screen.
A Brute can be a Tank. Being a Tanker does not make you a Tank. Is it proven that a Brute who is just attacking an AV will steal the agro from a Tanker who is attacking and taunting (with enhanced Taunt) said AV? |
And it is proveable that a Brute who is attacking an AV can hold aggro off of a Tanker that is taunting and attacking same AV. It's proveable in different ways. The threat formula is made up of many parts which determine an outcome, there is also attack rate, there is also the AVs particular abilities.
I just think we can make the game a bit less shoot fish in a barrel for a team following a Brute doing the Tanking. I tank with my Brutes, I'd tank with my Scrappers who all have confront. I'd do it from an early stage with AVs as low as we can go. It's not an issue for me to make other ATs tank but it is better if the difference between different ATs tanking for a team widens. People should be less safe with a Brute upfront even though they've buffed it to high heaven. Game is good with a chance for more anarchy and the Tanker AT sticks out more.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I'll believe a fix is in the works when a developer says its happening. I would encourage others to do the same.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Actually, people are just taking for granted that they are.
The only thing the devs said was that Tankers would be the next AT "looked at". That doesn't necessarily mean they're looking at them to buff or improve them. Considering the AT's track record, I wouldn't be surprised if some mechanic they cook up doesn't find it's way to Scrappers or a brand new AT instead, a la Fury. . |
-Captain_Aegis aka @Captain Valiant EU
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I think tanks can cause the shoot fish in the barrel effect well enough, other players in teams usually don't want to shoot fish in a barrel anyway so when I say well enough I am saying I don't want to see that made any easier and it should be more noticeable with Brute that they can't offer that boring way to play so easily.|
Originally Posted by Vitality
The potential problem I see with that...is Brutes built for tanking no longer wanting to team with Tankers...with Fury and all that.
It almost brings up a situation where bringing in a Tanker on the same team with a Brute built for tanking would lower the efficiency of the team...by way of lowering said Brutes damage output. Going back to my idea of buffing the max targets and radius of Tankers Taunt... ...this would potentially make any team more efficient. Imagine the idea of the Tanker grabbing max cap agro in 1.67s (using mids time)...allowing certain players to unleash their aoes right away without any worry of getting agro. (assuming that some players wait till most of the agro is accounted for before using aoe's) This would also allow the Tanker itself to focus more on doing damage...indirectly increasing their damage output. This way...said Tanker would still "share" some of the agro with a Brute built for tanking...but that Brute would never be able to grab the initial agro the way a Tanker can. |
Brutes don't need alot to fuel fury. An alpha is good enough which is somewhat befitting as real life Brutes tend to be fearless and believe me I would love to see the Brute AT naturally resistant to fear effects. After the alpha, a Tank can drop in share aggro perhaps. The Brute can then use attackss to maintain fury.
As a Brute myself I tend to shoot off and herd the next group ready. The tanker takes over then at the right moment I will go off and herd the next group and so on and the tanker looks after the team. However some Brutes merely herd and don't attack which is bad cos they do more damage, sometimes they herd mobs too quickly for teams to process and when bringing too many mobs to the Tanker who is already aggro capped, aggro is lost to other people. An aggro capped tanker can't always help them. So I do believe in not just constantly herding for teams as a Brute but to do some damage. I would set up herdpoints elsewhere for other players and contribute damage till they come. I'll only be so far ahead in terms of time as I would have only x amount of secs to survive before the team arrive.
Often some tanks do not know what they are doing, pointing enemy aoes directly onto the more vulnerable (which is alright as its means an exciting learning phase) but I believe that when you have experience, a little bit passed seeing team wipes you'd want do things like direct aoes elsewhere just to get the job done. It's nice as a Brute to be able to do that when teamed with a inexperienced/feckless Tanker but I would rather see Tankers who think like Tankers have the advantage over feckless Brutes. I think it pointless if Tankers can't dominate the situation by dictating the battlefield because if that is the case then Tanks have no real position in any given team, only some given teams instead.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I heard they were getting a lube, oil and filter change. |
Originally Posted by Grae Knight
So I hear tankers are getting buffed.
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And a run through the wash. Definitely, a run through the wash.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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I think a simple and great change would be for Tankers Taunt to get an increase in max targets and radius.
To be honest...the more I think about it...it should be buffed to the agro cap in terms of number of targets (17)...with a radius buff TBD.
This would allow the Tanker to get all the agro as soon as they use Taunt. They would still "share" agro with tanking Brutes...but they would no doubt be the best tanking AT inherently.