I don't know what the original design intent was, but the SSOOCSS eventually became the Invention system.
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we have no idea what that system would've been, it was scrapped in favor of the Invention system we currently have
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Originally Posted by Kirsten
I'm curious on two specific points:
1.) At one point I learned that Emmert was working on a skill system that was referred to the Super Secret Out Of Combat System. What would this system have entailed? and 2.) Would anybody want to use such a system? |
On Justice
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We have no information on it, really. The Universities were first put in because of it - we'd go there to "learn" it or some such. It was scrapped without even getting to a closed player beta (or at least a very wide one) because, as I recall the explanation, "It just wasn't very fun." |
Originally Posted by Kirsten
I'm curious on two specific points:
1.) At one point I learned that Emmert was working on a skill system that was referred to the Super Secret Out Of Combat System. What would this system have entailed? and 2.) Would anybody want to use such a system? |
So, yeah. We got inventions later.
What the system would have been - no idea. Would people have used it? Yes. Would others have found it useless/unfun/pointless? Yes. How can I say that for sure? Simple - look at *every other* system in the game. *shrug*
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If there were badges for it...|
Originally Posted by Kirsten
2.) Would anybody want to use such a system?
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I mean, Day Jobs...
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I think the SSOOCS was eventually displaced by the invention system, but I don't think it morphed into the invention system directly.
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
I don't know what the original design intent was, but the SSOOCSS eventually became the Invention system.
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From what I've gleaned, it actually sounded like a great RP tool, and an interesting way to have alternate "win" conditions for missions. (We need info on the 5th column. Beat up mooks, hack computers, have a little birdie tell you, I don't care. Just make sure it's solid.)
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If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.
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I love how it says "developers deemed it wasn't fun" in that link. The Inventions System. isn't fun, and the Incarnate System isn't fun ether :P They are both grinds.|
Originally Posted by Kirsten
I'm curious on two specific points:
1.) At one point I learned that Emmert was working on a skill system that was referred to the Super Secret Out Of Combat System. What would this system have entailed? and 2.) Would anybody want to use such a system? |
I would like to know what the SSOOC is.
I think there were even inspirations dealing with them.
They obviously never got used, but people have found icons.
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If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.
From what I understand, it was going to be the CoH equivalent to crafting, only more cumbersome and with fewer benefits than the invention system.
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I don't think it was meant to be an equivalent, but an "answer" to crafting.
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Originally Posted by DLancer
From what I understand, it was going to be the CoH equivalent to crafting, only more cumbersome and with fewer benefits than the invention system.
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If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.
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They're both great |
Originally Posted by Power_NA
The Inventions System. isn't fun, and the Incarnate System isn't fun ether
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Anyone have a December 04 issue of Computer Gaming World? Supposedly it was released with some exclusive info about the SSOOCS right before it was scrapped for "not being fun."
EDIT:
I haven't found the article, but from what I found of people recapping it:
- Four skill trees: Detective, Science, Communication, or Scholarship. As you advanced, it more specialized branches appear (Detective breaks into "Forensics" and "security.
- Wisdom. Skills can provide temporary buffs something "wisdom" at a university. Wisdom then leads to permanent skill buffs.
I would imagine it followed the same general idea that Origins were originally supposed to have, IE what you picked had a bearing on how you played. That origin idea got scrapped for what we have now. Might have suffered from "We need to hurry up and get this to Beta so we can hit a deadline."
It would have been nice to see a system outside of combat that directly affects your character besides what they look like (costume editor), but it probably wasn't low-hanging fruit.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
The CGW Museum has PDFs of most issues of the magazine. December 2004's issue says this about Issue 3 and the skill system:
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Originally Posted by Computer Gaming World, Issue 245
You'll have to wait for 2005's City of Villains expansion for more new archetypes, but Issue 3 has one other major addition to tide you over: the skill system.
Skills are City of Heroes' answer to the ubiquitous MMO crafting system -- except they're totally different. Characters will be able to specialize in one of four different skill trees: Detective, Science, Communication and Scholarship. They can further specialize in various areas of expertise, such as Forensics or Security for the Detective tree. Skills are level-independent and wholly optional; your character will be able to interact with myriad objects during the game, at which point he can attempt a series of skill checks. Success brings new objectives or perhaps some extra experience. For example, succeeding at a Security check in a bomb-infested building might reveal the explosives on your map. Skills are learned and improved by studying at universities throughout Paragon City. You'll earn temporary, expandable skill boosts during missions; these are somewhat similar to inspirations but can also be converted into wisdom, which is used to add permanent skill boosts at the aforementioned universities. As with enhancements, you'll find generic skill improvements as well as stronger, more focused upgrades along the lines of dual- and single-origin enhancements. The only skill you'll need for now, though, is the patience to hold out for all this good stuff. |
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Thanks, Ned.
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Originally Posted by Creole Ned
The CGW Museum has PDFs of most issues of the magazine. December 2004's issue says this about Issue 3 and the skill system:
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No problem! And now I've gotten sucked into an afternoon of reading old issues of CGW. |
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
Thanks, Ned.
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That same issue has a two-page ad for the CoH DVD Edition. It came with an exclusive Heroclix figure of some character named Statesman, whoever that is!
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except Gladiators.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
What the system would have been - no idea. Would people have used it? Yes. Would others have found it useless/unfun/pointless? Yes. How can I say that for sure? Simple - look at *every other* system in the game. *shrug*
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=P
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Somebody finds them fun.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
except Gladiators.
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I thought we were dealing with statistically significant figures (which I'd say pretty much every other system (even pvp) can muster), not one guy living in a coldwater flat still using AOL.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Somebody finds them fun.
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Carry on!
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Am I not statistically significant? 8(
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I thought we were dealing with statistically significant figures (which I'd say pretty much every other system (even pvp) can muster), not one guy living in a coldwater flat still using AOL.
Carry on! |
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If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.
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I would have more fun with the Incarnate System if I could do it alone, so I could read what they were saying, and because I like playing with myself :P.
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
They're both great
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One person?|
Originally Posted by Kirsten
Am I not statistically significant? 8(
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Nope.
Well, unless they're a dev.
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My City Was Gone
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The methods of accruing them aren't fun, but the Inventions themselves are okay, and some of the Incarnate powers are excellent.
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Originally Posted by Power_NA
I love how it says "developers deemed it wasn't fun" in that link. The Inventions System. isn't fun, and the Incarnate System isn't fun ether :P They are both grinds.
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Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
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Hmm, that sounds very interesting, actually. If it was even partially as cool as KotOR where skills in demolition, security, robotics and the like had varying effects on missions, I'd say that it'd be a success.|
Originally Posted by Creole Ned
The CGW Museum has PDFs of most issues of the magazine. December 2004's issue says this about Issue 3 and the skill system:
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Although I probably would have added another branch called Search & Rescue which probably would pertain to aiding NPCs, providing Aid to injured civilians, calming them so they can speak with you clearly (and tell you where the other hostages are before rushing off) and so forth.
Actually, I don't see why this system *still* couldn't be introduced in our current game along with the inventions system. It can even be usable by freemium players with some limits on the system:
-Free players can only specialize in 1 branch to which any extra branches will be choosable but not usable without respeccing your skills.
-Premium players can specialize in 1 branch but use other skills within a category.
-VIP would be able to specialize in 3 branches of any category and use basic skills of any other category they dip into.
So a Free player may only be able to specialize in forensics and only forensics, all detective skills would need to involve forensics in some way otherwise their skill won't work.
Premium may specialize in security but still be able to use any basic detective skill checks against other detective-type situations even if not specifically security based.
VIP may specialize in detective > security, search&rescue > counsel and scholarship > occult knowledge and use their skill checks that don't directly involve their specialty (getting a chance to use their detective skills to possibly solve a forensics issue or some such).
This would just require retrofitting missions with extra stuff...
And beyond that, what would villains' skills look like? The same, but reversed? Using their forensics skills to cover their tracks?
I'm curious on two specific points:
1.) At one point I learned that Emmert was working on a skill system that was referred to the Super Secret Out Of Combat System. What would this system have entailed?
and
2.) Would anybody want to use such a system?
Open Archetype Suggestion thread!, Kirsten's Epic Weapon Pools, Feudal Japan, Etc., Alignment specific Rularuu iTrials!
If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.