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Calvin Scott was the contact for the Calvin Scott Task Force. He was standing next to Sister Psyche in IP. At the same time Malaise was the trainer for the zone.
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Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
Adding a new NPC isn't hard. Name one case of an NPC being removed or altered in a zone prior to Going Rogue.
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Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
Adding a new NPC isn't hard. Name one case of an NPC being removed or altered in a zone prior to Going Rogue.
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Calvin Scott from the Calvin Scott Tf from waaaaay back when....
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I think it's clear they mean dynamically as in NOT as a game patch.
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Originally Posted by Player D
Calvin Scott from the Calvin Scott Tf from waaaaay back when....
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This. Although, didn't they replace Calvin Scott with Sister Psyche in issue... 4? (I joined before it happened, but I wasn't in the level range yet.) I know they've removed characters and changed their location by changing the zone, but I can't think of a time where they've altered a contact's appearance/presence on a per character basis.
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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
I think it's clear they mean dynamically as in NOT as a game patch.
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Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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The phasing tech is in place where zones were built with it in place. Retrofitting it in is what would likely require redoing the zone.
@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
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It isn't the code of the zone:|
Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
Doesn't matter because the code now exists. An NPC is not tied to an entire zone, and even if it is they would never need to "rewrite the entire zone" just to add code to remove the NPC under certain circumstances.
....unless the code for zones is such a mess that NPCs are tied to the zone and they can't search for the proper place to put such a piece of code in all that mess. Ok, that seems believable. |
"Find every reference of X across all the story arcs of the game- any instance where user is sent to X as a mission, any instance where X is referred to in the text, and any instance where X gives dialogue options. Then modify them."
That sounds like a reasonable action on the surface, but history suggests otherwise:
Well over 4 years ago, when the devs realized their experiment with missions to "simultaneously disable bombs" (causing a minimum team need) was received badly, they relied more on their own memory and player /bug reports because they all but admitted they lacked the tools to reliably search through the missions for that mechanic. In another instance it came out that they couldn't use their existing upgraded toolset on some legacy content without breaking it, inferring that relatively minor changes were harder because of it.
From what I've seen in my tangential approach to the game industry, such statements aren't surprising nor unbelievable. Even in an MMO, there's not a good history of reverse-compatibility development time for in-house tools. Its all very forward-looking and budget lean.
So, while it might not be difficult via code, it can still be challenging to identify all legacy areas impacted reliably and modify them safely without investing even more into the tools or labor than is reasonable.
Interestingly, they're opening up quite a few new development tools in I24, so they might get the ability to phase older NPCs more easily.
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Ummm, we're only talking about turning her "tangible" in Croatoa.
She isn't really mentioned in much, but the stuff she is past that point is practically all new since Going Rogue where they should have, and still can, made her tangible in those instances without needing to change every other example.
Also, why can't they just "detoggle" or delete the power on her NPC in Croatoa that makes her intangible/transparent?
It it is now "canon" that she is solid again then they could just do that. You can explain her not looking like Serene by saying "she changed Serene's body to be her old look and they were identical people anyway".
There are easy things to do, but the devs do favor the complicated approach.
Also, anybody remember the episode of Star trek The Next Generation about the Dyson Sphere where they find "Scotty" in the teleporter of a wreck?
"Scotty" says something like "you need to embellish a little, son, if you want to have a reputation as a miracle-worker".
That seems to apply quite aptly to any developer comments about "we could do that but...". I bet they exaggerate to avoid getting hopes up and surprise players when they actually do the simple thing when it finally is high enough priority to take the 5 minutes(some things) it needs to be changed.
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Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
Ummm, we're only talking about turning her "tangible" in Croatoa.
She isn't really mentioned in much, but the stuff she is past that point is practically all new since Going Rogue where they should have, and still can, made her tangible in those instances without needing to change every other example. |
It could be that they'd perfer she remain intangible in one place to indicate a state in a "past" event. We've already seen that they consider Faultline to have occurred several years in the past, so why not Croatoa?
I'd prefer it if they did do it as phasing tech-- tangible if the teamleader completes first ward, intangible if not... but it isn't a big enough deal to warrant too much effort on it.
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Again, you're assuming too much, in particular, that this could be a power that makes her tangible/intangible. Most contacts are separate art assets with locked in appearances including, of all things, the yellow ring at their base. I recall several demorecord videos that showed them whenever the asset was used. There's no reason to expect that the alphaisn't similarly "baked in" to the asset. |
Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
Also, why can't they just "detoggle" or delete the power on her NPC in Croatoa that makes her intangible/transparent? It it is now "canon" that she is solid again then they could just do that. You can explain her not looking like Serene by saying "she changed Serene's body to be her old look and they were identical people anyway". There are easy things to do, but the devs do favor the complicated approach. |
Someone with demorecord could check that easily enough.
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Well, War Witch is different. She has two versions, both trainers, that are present using different emotes while one is tangible.|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
Again, you're assuming too much, in particular, that this could be a power that makes her tangible/intangible. Most contacts are separate art assets with locked in appearances including, of all things, the yellow ring at their base. I recall several demorecord videos that showed them whenever the asset was used. There's no reason to expect that the alphaisn't similarly "baked in" to the asset.
Someone with demorecord could check that easily enough. |
I don't presume to know how it really works, only how it seems to work and how it should.
It just looks like War Witch may be the easiest NPC to change due to her having two versions already.
I think the first "true merging" we'll see is when the spirit of Pendragon merges with the Honoree to finally cure him of being Riktified.And that's only IF the developers are deciding to go that way.Everthing else, as was explained by other posters, isn't exactly "merging." It's either hijacking or an assumption of a role. Desdemona is still Desdemona, she just has a mask now that psychically links her to the Carnival of Light and maybe gives her some of Praetorian DeVore's powers. War Witch stole Sorceress Serene's body (there's irony there, too; WAR Witch is the friendly, good-natured heroine, Sorceress SERENE is the evil, vindictive psychopath).
I'm still wondering what happened with Praetorian Infernal. I get the feeling there was a plot opportunity that was missed there.
My Stories
Look at that. A full-grown woman pulling off pigtails. Her crazy is off the charts.
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I'll test tonight when I roll up the game, but given how they do other contacts, I wouldn't be surprised to see the alpha baked into one asset and not the other.|
Originally Posted by T_Immortalus
Well, War Witch is different. She has two versions, both trainers, that are present using different emotes while one is tangible.
I don't presume to know how it really works, only how it seems to work and how it should. It just looks like War Witch may be the easiest NPC to change due to her having two versions already. |
To be honest, I wrote my initial explanation of the challenges in swapping assets without even looking at the 'who are we talking about."-- thinking along the lines of swapping out, say... Back Alley Brawler for miss liberty in Atlas. War Witch v1 with war witch v2 would be much easier.
However, note that the existence of the Pocket D war witch for so long kinda works against the argument for changing Croatoa's contact. The disconnect existed this long, after all. It's even hinted that her appearance/presence in Pocket D is a result of the unexplained. Heck It can be argued that War Witch is alive only AFTER Night Ward is complete, and the events Croatoa are meant to occur prior to this (it IS older content AND it is at a (very slighly) lower level range), so it would be OK to portray her as such... at least until phasing tech could be used to alternate the contact appearance.
...I might've missed it, but are people calling for an update of Faultline's Penny Yin to look more like the Penny Yin Task Force? Its a similar timeline-disconnect issue that we handwave away...
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Origin of Power (Percy Winkley) has you talk to War Witch to get info on magic origins. It poses the same issue as swapping Ms. Liberty for Babs in Atlas, so it's not as easy as T might think.
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Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
To be honest, I wrote my initial explanation of the challenges in swapping assets without even looking at the 'who are we talking about."-- thinking along the lines of swapping out, say... Back Alley Brawler for miss liberty in Atlas. War Witch v1 with war witch v2 would be much easier.
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Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Would be that complicated just update the model with the non transparent look of Sorceress Serene?
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It IS several years in the past, at least according to some of the mission dialogue. One of the contacts references the first appearance of some of the critters in the zone "last Halloween", which makes the entire Croatoa arc take place in 2005, when the zone was created, and after the first Halloween event.|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
It could be that they'd perfer she remain intangible in one place to indicate a state in a "past" event. We've already seen that they consider Faultline to have occurred several years in the past, so why not Croatoa?
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Of course, Faultline takes place later, despite being a lower level range, and don't even get me started on Admiral Sutter and the new Atlas arcs...
...I forgot what experience means.
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Perhaps our characters should all get 'entrusted with the secret' badge and ouroboros access just for logging in? Its about the only way to make sense of it all...
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Originally Posted by SpaceNut
It IS several years in the past, at least according to some of the mission dialogue. One of the contacts references the first appearance of some of the critters in the zone "last Halloween", which makes the entire Croatoa arc take place in 2005, when the zone was created, and after the first Halloween event.
Of course, Faultline takes place later, despite being a lower level range, and don't even get me started on Admiral Sutter and the new Atlas arcs... |
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I'd actually be more inclined to ask for TF Penny to be changed to the Faultline model.|
Originally Posted by Chase_Arcanum
...I might've missed it, but are people calling for an update of Faultline's Penny Yin to look more like the Penny Yin Task Force? Its a similar timeline-disconnect issue that we handwave away...
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The Penny TF happens WITHIN the level range of the Faultline arcs, not after. You can literally finish the story arc with Child Penny in Faultline, pop over to IP and do Adult Penny's TF, then go back to Faultline to do Agent G's arc and run into Child Penny again.
It's a chronological clusterfrag.
Add to that, LGTF version of Penny should be replaced with her Adult version, and her dialog modified to fit in needed.
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
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Fixed. No "child" has um... assets like that.
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Originally Posted by Oathbound
I'd actually be more inclined to ask for TF Penny to be changed to the Faultline model.
The Penny TF happens WITHIN the level range of the Faultline arcs, not after. You can literally finish the story arc with Teen Penny in Faultline, pop over to IP and do Adult Penny's TF, then go back to Faultline to do Agent G's arc and run into Teen Penny again. It's a chronological clusterfrag. |
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They used it for the Laura Lockheart arc in Steel Canyon, and I don't recall them rebuilding that zone as part of Issue 22.
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Originally Posted by bpphantom
The phasing tech is in place where zones were built with it in place. Retrofitting it in is what would likely require redoing the zone.
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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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....unless the code for zones is such a mess that NPCs are tied to the zone and they can't search for the proper place to put such a piece of code in all that mess.
Ok, that seems believable.