Who has accurate information about the Tyrant Fight?


Aggelakis

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Spectreblade View Post
Yeah, I have no clue why the Magisterium trial is the only one where we didn't get an official overview like we did for the others. Every single one of the previous trials had theirs posted before they went live, so why not this one?
Maybe to keep some mystique. I can see how not knowing what to do and not knowing "why" is infuriating people... but personally, I like that we're left to figure it out.




Thank you, Champion.

 

Posted

Does anyone understand how the lights are supposed to work? The way I understand it, killing the lights is supposed to give out a temporary level shift, so that you can get up to +9 like Tyrant is. I ran my third failed Magisterium trial tonight, but this was the first one where I was monitoring my level shift to see what it was doing. I had heard someone say the level shifts from the lights were team based, so I had 2 people on each team on light duty. They were doing a great job too. The lights would go down within just a couple of seconds of spawning. However I was almost never getting any level shifts from them dying. My level shift stayed pretty constant at +3 for the majority of the trial. Every once in a while (as in 4-5 times in the entire 20 minute fight) I saw it go up to +8 or +9 for a few seconds. The only pattern I could discern was that it seemed to go up most frequently when I had just come back from the hospital.

I don't know if it's a bug, or if there's just some mechanic to it that I'm missing. Anyone know more about them?


 

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Originally Posted by firespray View Post
I don't know if it's a bug, or if there's just some mechanic to it that I'm missing. Anyone know more about them?
I think the current assumption players (including me) have is that it is bugged or there is a simple error preventing the level shifts from affecting the whole league. It is, however, possible that the level shifts are purposely a random mechanic and putting the lights out only grants a chance for a level shift rather than a guarantee.

If it is supposed to be a chance, it has created some interesting scenarios. I have seen the 40 to 20 health dance quite frequently, and sometimes those twenty percent fly by in 30 seconds and other times it takes 2 minutes. That does create a bit of unpredictability which I have found engaging. If it is intended to be random, then there likely needs to be something in the UI declaring the level shifts in addition to the real numbers display, because that would allow for more tactical play.


Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

You want accurate information - I can only tell you what was told to me by a player who had, I presume, used Surveillance on Tyrant.

His base regen is 470 hp.

His regen debuff resistance is 80%.


For those that don't know - after you put the lights out, you are supposed to get a level shift for each light you have out.
You can monitor your level shift via combat attributes.

However, this hasn't worked as intended each and every time. When it does work - that rough patch when he's between 30-40%, lore pets and call to justice can really help -- and once he's down to like 18% or so, he's on his last legs and the well takes his favor away and you've pretty much won it.

Snow Globe, with one of his posts, shows how after 13 seconds that there are no lights, but there are no level shifts either.

Sadly, we are left to wonder if the level shifts only last for 10-12 seconds, or is the trial indeed bugged in some instances? We don't get to see the code, so we've no idea.

For the most part, I suggest trying it anyway - it's a short trial, and it is fun, dodging all that lightning.

Not sure if that helps anyone or not - but I suspect that they need to do some fine tuning - to make the shifts more consistent.

54+5 and some Olympians vs. a lot of 50+3's --well, I sure didn't have any problem with Cole's personal story.


"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese

@Ukase

 

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Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
I've also heard people say that each player-death heals him... but I don't know the veracity of that. But needless to say, death significantly lowers one's DPS, so, should be avoided. When a handful of people don't scatter at the "Air Crackles" warning and are hit with Lightning Columns, often stacked on each other... it's insta-death for them and a loss of DPS for the League. The death penalty is significant for this battle. Players really have never had to deal with significant death penalties before and have become too casual about being defeated.
I can't find anything to substantiate things I see said often in-game by leaders.
  • Dying heals Tyrant.
  • Being hit by lighting heals Tyrant.
Nothing in the detailed descriptions of his powers suggest either of these things is true. I strongly suspect that what is happening is that when people die or when they have to run away from his lightning, DPS drops, and if Tyrant is at low HP, his correspondingly high regen causes his HP to spike very soon after the DPS applied to him drops.

He does feed off of his Olympians. It does not look as if that heals him, however. It boosts toHit and damage, though, and his KB (heh). He stops summoning Olympians if he's brought below 40% of his max HP.

Other info about him:

His eyebeam sweep has several unusual debuffs, but only to the following:
  • Blasters
  • Scrappers
  • Brutes
  • Stalkers
  • Khelds
  • Soldiers of Arachnos
These ATs suffer -20% damage, -10% heal, and -10% def for 25s when hit by his beam sweep.

The flow lightning deals energy damage, but also applies stacking -resistance to energy damage. That's why standing in it is quite so bad.

Amusingly, when he is deflated and loses his connection to the well, all his normal powers are stripped from him and he's given [Brawl]. =D


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

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Originally Posted by StratoNexus View Post
Aren't you just a bundle of joy? For every silver lining...
Sure... I was with Kyle_Al_Mordu on the trials he was talking about. Literally a "night and day" difference between the two nights. Then again the second night had more people willing to listen to their leader (not me).




Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

 

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Originally Posted by The Grim Heaper View Post
I have a problem with the lightning beams in that they don't always all show up. I tend to inevitably get killed by an invisible one. I figure it might have to do with my particle count settings and just how many powers are going off on my screen just before they hit. :/
Look up.

Chances are, there was someone flying who got targeted by the lightning blast. And much like the patches of doom in other Incarnate missions (like Apex), the patch will "land" wherever the character's position was, but it's effect will go all the way up and down.


-STEELE =)


Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)

 

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Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
Sure... I was with Kyle_Al_Mordu on the trials he was talking about. Literally a "night and day" difference between the two nights. Then again the second night had more people willing to listen to their leader (not me).
The main difference is that I was there the second night...


Kyle Al'Mordu - Lvl 50 MA/SR Scrap
Fusion Force!
TRIUMPH

 

Posted

A few points:

1. Every kill Tyrant makes will allow the Favor of the Well to decrease and grant him a health boost. His health is inversely proportional to the Well, so having the well to a 100 is ideal to kill Tyrant.

2. The Lightning AoE attack of his covers a large area, and also targets random characters. Only way to escape is to either jump outside of the crater, or keep moving around.

3. Extinguishing the Lights of the Well will grant a level shift to a RANDOM character, not everyone will get it. Timing for putting them out has to be right, otherwise, putting out the last Well just as the timer resets them all back is a waste.

The thing with his regen is that his Favor of the Well doesn't just randomly grant him any extra for nothing, it's only if he shows he is worthy, i.e, kills anything or anyone. Avoid having MMs summon pets and avoid using Lores to ensure he gets nothing to kill cause EVERY KILL COUNTS, with the assumption that you WILL run when you see 'The air around Tyrant crackles!'. Completed it twice yesterday with no problems at all, it's so much fun to get him down to 10 and then watch the -8 kick in...A beautiful sight to see.


 

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Originally Posted by Synesence View Post
A few points:

1. Every kill Tyrant makes will allow the Favor of the Well to decrease and grant him a health boost. His health is inversely proportional to the Well, so having the well to a 100 is ideal to kill Tyrant.

2. The Lightning AoE attack of his covers a large area, and also targets random characters. Only way to escape is to either jump outside of the crater, or keep moving around.

3. Extinguishing the Lights of the Well will grant a level shift to a RANDOM character, not everyone will get it. Timing for putting them out has to be right, otherwise, putting out the last Well just as the timer resets them all back is a waste.

The thing with his regen is that his Favor of the Well doesn't just randomly grant him any extra for nothing, it's only if he shows he is worthy, i.e, kills anything or anyone. Avoid having MMs summon pets and avoid using Lores to ensure he gets nothing to kill cause EVERY KILL COUNTS, with the assumption that you WILL run when you see 'The air around Tyrant crackles!'. Completed it twice yesterday with no problems at all, it's so much fun to get him down to 10 and then watch the -8 kick in...A beautiful sight to see.
This makes SO much more sense than the popular opinion that 'going to hospital heals Tyrant', which I always found a bit dubious (if correct, what a stupid fight mechanic that would be).

They key, then, becomes simple: DON'T DIE!


- Xyzor, Lightning.Rod, Kagyx - Rubber Mulch / Wholesale Candy - Freedom Server

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synesence View Post

3. Extinguishing the Lights of the Well will grant a level shift to a RANDOM character, not everyone will get it. Timing for putting them out has to be right, otherwise, putting out the last Well just as the timer resets them all back is a waste.
Anecdotal as it is, I just experienced odd behaviour. When all the lights were out, and I was near Tyrant, I was +9. I jumped out of range, and was immediately +3. I jumped back near Tyrant and immediately granted +9.

The next time, I tried the same... but stayed within range for a few seconds. I maintained +8. I jumped out, and was +3. I remained there, and maintained +3. Then jumped back in and was +8. No lights were lit.

This doesn't dispute the "random" thing, just sort of throws an odd twist to it.

Every other time the lights were out that followed that, I remained +3, regardless of where I was or how many lights were unlit.


For two runs prior to that, myself and another player did not receive any shift boost, which supports the "random" aspect, but it seems unlikely that neither of us would receive a shift at all. Though not everybody reported their shift status, we were seemingly the only two that did not receive a single shift. The league leader reported shifting twice for both runs.




Thank you, Champion.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_Al_Mordu View Post
The main difference is that I was there the second night...
Actually the main difference is that a good portion of the group was composed of Fusion Force (including yourself). Fusion Force, in my experience, is a solid group of players that pay attention and listen to the leader of the trial. I'm always happy when teaming with members of Fusion Force because of that.




Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synesence View Post
Every kill Tyrant makes will allow the Favor of the Well to decrease and grant him a health boost. His health is inversely proportional to the Well, so having the well to a 100 is ideal to kill Tyrant.
I see no evidence of this at all. Do we have any dev statement to this effect?

He has no power listed which does this. His Regen is very explicitly only a function of his HP, and this in particular is not speculation.

I have also seen him defeat several people and not had his health spike in any way not explained by his high regen. So I very much question this description.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bramphousian View Post
Anecdotal as it is, I just experienced odd behaviour. When all the lights were out, and I was near Tyrant, I was +9. I jumped out of range, and was immediately +3. I jumped back near Tyrant and immediately granted +9.

The next time, I tried the same... but stayed within range for a few seconds. I maintained +8. I jumped out, and was +3. I remained there, and maintained +3. Then jumped back in and was +8. No lights were lit.

This doesn't dispute the "random" thing, just sort of throws an odd twist to it.

Tried this again with the same character. Jumping in and out of melee range was modifying my shifts. First, when in melee range, I was getting +9, and then +3 as I jumped out. This happened twice in a row.

Then, the opposite happened. I got +3 when near Tyrant, and +9 when away. This happened twice in a row. Every time I jumped in and out of melee range, the shift was changing.


The next time the lights were out, I maintained +3. After that, +9.

Then the swinging dependent on my proximity to Tyrant happened again, for at least three times the lights were out. These were all +9 in melee range, and +3 away.




Thank you, Champion.

 

Posted

Switched to farming for the ixp.

Not bothering with Tyrant anymore.


Ignoring anyone is a mistake. You might miss something viral to your cause.

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
I see no evidence of this at all. Do we have any dev statement to this effect?

He has no power listed which does this. His Regen is very explicitly only a function of his HP, and this in particular is not speculation.

I have also seen him defeat several people and not had his health spike in any way not explained by his high regen. So I very much question this description.
Last night while we were running the trial, I did notice that when we brought his health down to 24, the Favor of the Well was at around 40, and at that time, he accomplished multiple kills on pets and lores, and with that, the Favor of the Well immediately decreased, and Tyrant's Health went up. This isn't something from the devs, it's from personal observation, plus the hints given out, especially the one that says something like: 'The Well shall favor the stronger opponent', and everytime he kills someone, I've seen his health just go back up. It doesn't matter how much DPS you're putting out, because as long as you give him something easy to kill such as summons or pets, the Favor of the Well will nullify it with a regen boost, and you'll end up with a failed mission.

Key to beating him is having a team ready to extinguish the lights and avoid any summons of any sort. Stop the Well from decreasing by avoiding death as often as possible, and Tyrant will not gain insane regen and avoid defeat. Give it a try.


 

Posted

So... load a league up with high-defense twitchy types, and avoid squishies who can't move quickly out of the AoE Lightning or (actually worse) Hammer attack?

That might be more successful. And also more irritating to the squishies.

I do like the trial, overall. My main complaints are in the severe LACK of CLUES, where other trials have explained even briefly the general things you're supposed to be doing to succeed, and the potentially-bugged level shift mechanic.

Difficulty through obscurity is not good design. When you have a trial that most people prefer to farm instead of actual run full-out? That's a fail.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by UberGuy View Post
I see no evidence of this at all. Do we have any dev statement to this effect?

He has no power listed which does this. His Regen is very explicitly only a function of his HP, and this in particular is not speculation.

I have also seen him defeat several people and not had his health spike in any way not explained by his high regen. So I very much question this description.
I agree with you, I haven't seen evidence of this either only a rumor. I have purposely suicided during the final fight to see if it did anything and it did not.

I have a theory (that needs to be tested), what if his Favor of the Well was proportional to the DAMAGE TYRANT DEALS? So if he does an AOE and it hits lots of people, he gains more favor. Likewise, the players get favor as they deal damage.


 

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Originally Posted by Zombie Man View Post
Notice of the Well is a spherical effect with radius of 5,000 feet. It has a 16 target cap.
*lightbulb*
And of course, pets/Lores will count against that cap. I bet the devs were thinking a 16 target cap is fine since you only have 16 players in the trial, and forgot about pets stealing the buffs. Someone file a bug report!


Champion 50s (blueside): Marc Bridge, Nicole Bridge, Fred Blaze, Colleen Storms, Sun's Chariot, Moon's Huntress, Point of Pride
Guardian 50s (redside): Connie Mand
AE arc: Spirit Plane Invasion, #29282, @Honbrid

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honbrid View Post
*lightbulb*
And of course, pets/Lores will count against that cap. I bet the devs were thinking a 16 target cap is fine since you only have 16 players in the trial, and forgot about pets stealing the buffs. Someone file a bug report!
Probably not -- Magi is for 12-24 players.


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Posted

I haven't read all the posts in the thread, but one stated that you should Hosp immediately. This runs contrary to the impression I was under based on a recent Dev diary-type article on Massively. Since Tyrant is empowered via Tartarus during the final battle he essentially controls your Soul. This is why you have to fight your way out of the hosp.

Mechanically, once Tyrant is below 50% the amount of Favor gives him +Regen. His Favor is buffed by those folks who choose to Hosp. So, a far better way than rushing to Hosp, would be to have a couple folks with Barrier or Howling Twilight rezzing people so they can avoid buffing Favor by using the Hosp.



 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Synesence View Post
Last night while we were running the trial, I did notice that when we brought his health down to 24, the Favor of the Well was at around 40, and at that time, he accomplished multiple kills on pets and lores, and with that, the Favor of the Well immediately decreased, and Tyrant's Health went up.
The problem with this observation is that it does not clearly suggest what you're saying it does. If he is at any given health level that's below 50% of his max health, his regen increases. If he kills a bunch of stuff, the DPS on him drops. If the DPS on him drops, his regen gets to raise his HP faster. If his HP level goes up, his favor decreases, because it's related to how far below 50% of max his HP is.

I honestly don't think killing people directly affects his favor at all. I don't think people going to the hospital affects you at all.

Quote:
Key to beating him is having a team ready to extinguish the lights and avoid any summons of any sort. Stop the Well from decreasing by avoiding death as often as possible, and Tyrant will not gain insane regen and avoid defeat. Give it a try.
Uh, no offense, but I've been running this a lot. There's no version of this trial where his regen does not become very high, because it's directly related to how low you get his HP. Again, this is not speculation.


Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA