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It's not just Brutes. On average, we're just more powerful now than we used to be. Teams steamroll though mobs, and there's not a lot of reason have a dedicated tank AT.|
Originally Posted by Redoptic
So late last year Synapse indicated interest in looking at Tankers, which despite being fairly balanced as is have had their role muddled with the crossover of brutes.
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And when you try to force it, like the BAF and Keyes encouraging a "puller", it just comes off stupid and contrived.
The role itself is very forced and artificial. It's an artifact of bad AI and it's not terribly interesting or demanding. It's also very silly and illogical. Think back to the Avengers. Nobody was the "tank". 'Tank and spank' with one person being attacked while his buddies sit on the sidelines and do the damage just isn't how fights work.
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| But after player summits, interviews and the usual beta leaks over production intentions, I haven't read a whisper of any movement. Granted minute changes to any AT take extended time, but have I missed anything, aside for Aett Thorns thread in the tanker section has their been a hint dropped? |
IIRC, he was asked about it on a uStream and he was non-committal at best. He said he had "some concerns" about Tankers. What those concerns were, if he still has them almost a year later and if they're strong enough to do anything about was not said.
Considering that nothing ever came of it and there has been no word since, I wouldn't hold my breath on anything happening. And personally, if something did happen, I don't expect anything good to come of it based on the devs typical handling of Tankers.
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Team 1 with a tank - Damz gets bored quickly as usually too easy then.
Team 2 without a tank but with a brute - Damz enjoys trying to out-brute a brute on my scrapper.
Team 3 without a tank or a brute - Oh its scrapper time! 
scrappy scrappy doooooo!
I like having tanks/brutes on a team for the safety blanket they usually give, however i have a lot more fun without them. Does that make me tankerist? 
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
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I don't believe anything has been mentioned that we've been made aware of.
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Originally Posted by Redoptic
So late last year Synapse indicated interest in looking at Tankers, which despite being fairly balanced as is have had their role muddled with the crossover of brutes.
But after player summits, interviews and the usual beta leaks over production intentions, I haven't read a whisper of any movement. Granted minute changes to any AT take extended time, but have I missed anything, aside for Aett Thorns thread in the tanker section has their been a hint dropped? |
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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You just gotta play with the right tanks boss.
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Originally Posted by EU_Damz
Team 1 with a tank - Damz gets bored quickly as usually too easy then.
Team 2 without a tank but with a brute - Damz enjoys trying to out-brute a brute on my scrapper. Team 3 without a tank or a brute - Oh its scrapper time! scrappy scrappy doooooo! I like having tanks/brutes on a team for the safety blanket they usually give, however i have a lot more fun without them. Does that make me tankerist? |
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
Be VERY careful of what you wish for.|
Originally Posted by Redoptic
So late last year Synapse indicated interest in looking at Tankers, which despite being fairly balanced as is have had their role muddled with the crossover of brutes.
But after player summits, interviews and the usual beta leaks over production intentions, I haven't read a whisper of any movement. Granted minute changes to any AT take extended time, but have I missed anything, aside for Aett Thorns thread in the tanker section has their been a hint dropped? |
Given the love Tankers got when Archetypes went global, I am extremely leery of wandering eyes. The only change I can possibly foresee to our archetype is a nerf.
Raid Leader of Task Force Vendetta "Steel 70", who defeated the first nine Drop Ships in the Second Rikti War.
70 Heroes, 9 Drop Ships, 7 Minutes. The Aliens never knew what hit them.
Now soloing: GM-Class enemy Adamaster, with a Tanker!
It is likely that the dev's haven't figured out a good tanker change yet. Can't announce what isn't there to announce.
TPN trial guide video / MoM trial guide video / DD trial guide video / BAF trial guide video
/ Lambda trial guide video / Keyes trial guide video / Magisterium trial guide video / Underground trial guide
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A nerf to Super Strength, maybe. Then have the rest of the AT fixed.
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Originally Posted by Sylph_Knight
Be VERY careful of what you wish for.
Given the love Tankers got when Archetypes went global, I am extremely leery of wandering eyes. The only change I can possibly foresee to our archetype is a nerf. |
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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And that would be for what, the laughable piece of crap that is Hand Clap?|
Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
A nerf to Super Strength, maybe. Then have the rest of the AT fixed.
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Or the stunningly mediocre Jab, Punch and Haymaker trio?
Or the joke that is Hurl, which outside of PvP is a waste of a pick except for flavour.
Two-thirds of the set is mediocre or skippable. It has literally three good powers and one of those (Rage) has taken a big hit with recent +Dam buffing powers added to the game making stacking it rather pointless.
I'd be so bold to say Super Strength fails as a set:
It doesn't let you pick up, throw or utilize heavy things or demonstrate in any meaningful way that you are, you know, super strong.
It's performance is propped up by three good powers and the rest of the set is forgettable and also has what is generally thought of as the least useful power in the game, Hand Clap. The set is made up of mostly recycled animations, most being over eight years old at this point. Two of the set's powers needlessly force you do be on the ground, restricting you from using Fly or Hover in combat (Castle confirmed this was not for any balance reasons, just because it was easier to not fix than to do anything about and it should be noted that no melee attacks sets added since SS have had such a silly restriction).
SS is a poorly executed, outdated power set that gets by only on Rage+Foot Stomp and being iconic. And it's only iconic if you don't look at other superhero games that do super strength more justice; at this point that's pretty much all of them that feature it, including the two other competing super hero MMOs.
Yes, even Cel-shading Online's Might powerset puts our SS to shame.
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Eh....I like SS/WP on my Brute. He's actually the only Brute I can like, so far.
And I also love my Invul/Energy Tank to bits. What's that, an army of Romans, Talons and Monsters? Pfft, you lot wait here and make some more pottery, I've got this...
*Sound of slow but steady and painful carnage from the Valley*
Still, I wouldn't be adverse to any buffs they can give Tanks.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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I like playing my tank on big teams. The point of team tanking, as I see it, is to gather mobs into a tight package to maximize AoE damage.
"I accidently killed Synapse, do we need to restart the mission?" - The Oldest One on Lord Recluses Strike Force
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And Psionic Assault had three powers other than dart worth taking - Mind Probe, Drain Psyche, and Psychic shockwave. They nerfed PSW, buffed the rest of the set and buffed the Dominator AT as a whole.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Two-thirds of the set is mediocre or skippable. It has literally three good powers and one of those (Rage) has taken a big hit with recent +Dam buffing powers added to the game making stacking it rather pointless.
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Your situation is NOT unique in the grand history of the game.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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The Tier 9 from Titan Weapons requires you to be on the ground.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
<snip>(Castle confirmed this was not for any balance reasons, just because it was easier to not fix than to do anything about and it should be noted that no melee attacks sets added since SS have had such a silly restriction).
</snip> |
Just sayin...
[ @Zombie Fryer ][ @Zombie Smasher ]
| Home Server: Virtue |
Twitter: @ZFLikesNachos Save City of Heroes (Titan Network) [Successful "The Really Hard Way" runs: 4] [Click ^]
| Home Server: Virtue |
Twitter: @ZFLikesNachos Save City of Heroes (Titan Network) [Successful "The Really Hard Way" runs: 4] [Click ^]
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Pretty sure it didn't when I tried the set in Beta. And it just goes to show how arbitrary it is, considering Eye of the Storm and Burst look just as stupid in the air. I'd rather they let me choose, rather than the devs deciding what "looks right" and slapping me with unnecessary restrictions because they don't want to do an animation.|
Originally Posted by SolarSentai
The Tier 9 from Titan Weapons requires you to be on the ground.
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And still, that's one attack compared to two in SS, and Arc of Destruction isn't the only AoE attack in its set like Foot Stomp is.
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Not to look crazy or anything, I kind of agree. Titan Weapons is a better version of Super Strength imo. |
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
And that would be for what, the laughable piece of crap that is Hand Clap?
Or the stunningly mediocre Jab, Punch and Haymaker trio? Or the joke that is Hurl, which outside of PvP is a waste of a pick except for flavour. Two-thirds of the set is mediocre or skippable. It has literally three good powers and one of those (Rage) has taken a big hit with recent +Dam buffing powers added to the game making stacking it rather pointless. I'd be so bold to say Super Strength fails as a set: It doesn't let you pick up, throw or utilize heavy things or demonstrate in any meaningful way that you are, you know, super strong. It's performance is propped up by three good powers and the rest of the set is forgettable and also has what is generally thought of as the least useful power in the game, Hand Clap. The set is made up of mostly recycled animations, most being over eight years old at this point. Two of the set's powers needlessly force you do be on the ground, restricting you from using Fly or Hover in combat (Castle confirmed this was not for any balance reasons, just because it was easier to not fix than to do anything about and it should be noted that no melee attacks sets added since SS have had such a silly restriction). SS is a poorly executed, outdated power set that gets by only on Rage+Foot Stomp and being iconic. And it's only iconic if you don't look at other superhero games that do super strength more justice; at this point that's pretty much all of them that feature it, including the two other competing super hero MMOs. Yes, even Cel-shading Online's Might powerset puts our SS to shame. . |
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
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Point me towards these others, can't be the two I was in from alpha on if they did power sets and animations better I'd be there, and maybe their servers wouldn't be relative ghost towns.|
And it's only iconic if you don't look at other superhero games that do super strength more justice; at this point that's pretty much all of them that feature it, including the two other competing super hero MMOs. Yes, even Cel-shading Online's Might powerset puts our SS to shame. |
Tanks are the most beloved archetype in this games history despite what a few Debbie Downers may opine, or steer us to any other AT with it's own event that's approaching 100 consecutive months. Yee haw.
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The only fix tankers need is for Butane's client to just create a brute when he selects tanker and not tell him.
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I say this a lot..mostly because its true, but you are insane. I play all 3 superhero mmos, and there is not one that does the hurling and weaponizing thing in a smooth and organic fashion. It is at best an inferior alpha mechanic to any of the charged shots in the competition online(or a laughably slow melee attack that rarely even uses an appropriate animation for the weaponized environment detail) or an incredibly gimmicky thing that is of limited use, limited and arbitrary application, and is terrible to try and use in a fight unless an npc or teammate is taking the aggro as in our direct competition online. There is no good representation of a weaponized environment system in mmos right now, coh is just too old to have tried it, and the others tried and failed terribly.
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Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
SS is a poorly executed, outdated power set that gets by only on Rage+Foot Stomp and being iconic. And it's only iconic if you don't look at other superhero games that do super strength more justice; at this point that's pretty much all of them that feature it, including the two other competing super hero MMOs. Yes, even Cel-shading Online's Might powerset puts our SS to shame. . |
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Always happy to stick my neck out for someone to prod.
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Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
A nerf to Super Strength, maybe. Then have the rest of the AT fixed.
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Raid Leader of Task Force Vendetta "Steel 70", who defeated the first nine Drop Ships in the Second Rikti War.
70 Heroes, 9 Drop Ships, 7 Minutes. The Aliens never knew what hit them.
Now soloing: GM-Class enemy Adamaster, with a Tanker!
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But they have it. Period.|
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
I play all 3 superhero mmos, and there is not one that does the hurling and weaponizing thing in a smooth and organic fashion.
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CoH doesn't, never will and the devs probably wouldn't add it if they could because throwing cars isn't found in DnD.
I agree with you nobody has done it very well yet, but we don't even try. The End.
Beyond environmental interaction and object weaponization, there are other aspects of SS that put ours to shame. Without naming names:
-A cone attack that 'sweeps the room', knocking enemies to the horizon and killing them is better than our Jab, Punch or Haymaker any day.
-If our Hand Clap disoriented enemies and dealt damage to them, it wouldn't be such garbage.
-I wouldn't mind for one second if KO Blow was a straight punch that actually looked powerful and wasn't a slow animating Popeye punch. Kind of like here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...YYzJwCA#t=144s. That clip is how KO Blow should look and behave like, not like something from a 1930's rubber hose cartoon.
-Not to mention CoH has a complete lack of a backhand attack in SS.
Lastly, our combat is slow in general, and SS can feel especially so. You'd notice this if you play all the games like you say. We don't have the proper effects or animation to convey power, and if you're not a Brute, you don't have the damage to convey it either. I'd take the SS of the other two any day over CoH's eight year old plodding dinosaur. Drop either of them into this game and I wouldn't look back. Considering our SS only has 3 decent powers in it, there wouldn't be much to miss.
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Hurl, Hurl Boulder, and Propel. CoH has it. It may not be smooth and organic, but it is a lie to say it doesn't exist. Period.|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
But they have it. Period.
CoH doesn't, never will and the devs probably wouldn't add it if they could because throwing cars isn't found in DnD. |
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Maybe an increase to how many a Tanker can Taunt? As well as a absorb bonus for taunting a group of baddies beyond the old aggro cap?
Maybe they'll restore Tanker RES cap back to 99%, pre-Statesman nerfage. Brutes are muddy since they have Tanker resist caps but scrapper damage--best of both worlds!
Remember when they could pull 1/3 of Brickstown onto themselves and then stand there whistling while the whole zone Mapserver'd due to that many mobs being defeated at once by their blaster teammates all nova'ing together? lol, the good old days.
That or give tanker Taunts -RES or -DEF in addition to that 1st secondary attack swing debuffing a single target?
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It's muddier than that. Scrappers and Brutes can be tough enough to get by just fine and do more damage. If you have three ATs, all of them can survive most of the time, why would you play the one that has the least damage by far?|
Originally Posted by Iannis
Maybe they'll restore Tanker RES cap back to 99%, pre-Statesman nerfage. Brutes are muddy since they have Tanker resist caps but scrapper damage--best of both worlds!
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Most content doesn't require Tanker level toughness. If it did, Scrappers and Brutes wouldn't be the best soloing ATs in the game. Well built Scrappers and Brutes can get enough survivability to do pretty much whatever they want AND have better damage on top of that. The fact that Tankers get more survivability than that is is largely irrelevant if the other two don't die either.
The facts of the matter:
-There are more survival improving buffs, temp powers, Incarnate abilities, level shifts, performance amplifiers and inspirations in the game now than ever before. Capped defense on even squishies isn't uncommon. Everybody got tougher, but nobody really sacrificed any damage for it.
-Everyone being tougher means tanking isn't as much of a necessity as it used to be, especially when you now have four ATs (that can now be on the same side) intended,at least partially and in theory, to share tanking duties.
-Tankers do sacrifice damage and damage potential to survive, but everyone is allowed to survive better than ever without really being forced to take a damage hit, including Scrappers and Brutes.
-Brutes have the same survival potential as Tankers, but much more damage potential. Brute resistance and defense caps are identical to Tankers, and they only have 10% less Max HP. But their damage cap is much higher. Tankers at their damage cap don't do 90% of Brute damage at their cap, for either ST or AoE.
-Even though Scrappers have lower Resistance and Max HP caps than Brutes and Tankers, they're not exactly fragile when well built or buffed. Upcomming stuff like Hybrid Melee just makes them even tougher.
Making Tankers tougher won't change any of these things. They're already the toughest and it really doesn't afford them any real advantage since Scrappers and Brutes aren't exactly dropping like flies.
What needs to be done is Tankers have to have their damage cap increased and brought in line with Brutes.
OR Scrappers and Brutes need to take a sizable survivability hit.
I don't expect any nerfing for Scrappers and Brutes since that will only P.O. a large number of players. It's easier for the devs just to ignore that there's a double standard that screws over Tankers. From the looks of things that's just what the devs have been doing and plan to continue doing.
Hell, if they did do something, I wouldn't be surprised if it was idiotic like give Tankers inherent Absorb to "distance them" from Brutes; completely ignoring the fact that both ATs can already be made nigh unkillable while Tanker damage would still be crap even if they were literally unkillable. Go on, completely flag the Tanker to ignore 100% of all damage for all the good it would do. It really wouldn't matter because survival is not what's kneecapping them.
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I don't think a nerf to brutes or scrappers or damage increase that overshadows brutes or scrappers is enough. I think we need some mechanics thrown in for flavor much like what lannis said maybe Taunt or Gauntlet can give off a -RES Aura? That would encourage players to play Tankers.
I personally avoid them because I find them boring and the survival pay off isn't as dramatic as it should be. The -Res Aura and Aggro Cap would make a lot of people want to Play Tanks be it solo or teamed. It kind of reminds me of the Stalker issue...but Stalkers needed love all the way around lol.
I personally think that Tankers are fine but I wouldn't object to some changes in there to help out my fellow players who love Tankers...heck maybe even I woudl roll one .
So late last year Synapse indicated interest in looking at Tankers, which despite being fairly balanced as is have had their role muddled with the crossover of brutes.
But after player summits, interviews and the usual beta leaks over production intentions, I haven't read a whisper of any movement. Granted minute changes to any AT take extended time, but have I missed anything, aside for Aett Thorns thread in the tanker section has their been a hint dropped?