teleport needs redone
By
-Urchin-,
Posted on: 2012-05-02 10:31 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Not necessarily. There's nothing wrong with having an 'expert' power in a group which requires more effort but pays more dividends.
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Originally Posted by Dirges
Sorry if you have to try this hard, there is something wrong with TP.
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De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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Originally Posted by Tater Todd
Great Ideas in this thread! I think I only took Teleport on my Arch/Nrg Blaster because Boost Range + Teleport is Coconuts.
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That's an interesting synergy I had never thought of.
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Originally Posted by Memphis Bill
Er... no, it isn't. I don't know how you're slotting it, but it isn't slot hungry. Once you hit SOs, a single End reduction is typically fine.
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| Can't super speed vertically. |
I suppose you could say that Ninja Run mimics portions of Super Speed and that part I can agree with. If Ninja/Beast run were slottable powers they'd be heavy competition for me versus Super Speed. But I would also call Ninja/BeastRun generally better than Teleport even if they are unslottable.
Super Speed also destroys Teleport for moving around indoors, in pretty much any of the iTrials or Task Forces, or anywhere else where speed really matters. I suppose you could use Ninja Run to get around and Teleport for when you need it, but I've very rarely encountered enemy groups where this strategy isn't better than just running past them. Most of the ones who would spot you in Super Speed are likely to spot you when you try to teleport past them as well, and at least with SS you aren't stuck hanging around for an extra second or two, unable to move.
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1.) good for you|
Originally Posted by Vauluur
1.) TP is fine. I love it how it is, even in combat situations. Not that I'd be super upset about a faster cast time and lower end cost.
2.) If you don't like TP, don't take it. Personal distaste for a power is no reason to deny the possible uses that other people have found for it. 3.) If you like CO Teleport (not really sure why you bother with that game or it's teleport, but to each their own) then you can easily emulate it with Fly + Invisibility and leave my Teleport alone. |
2.) i don't like. and i don't take it. i'm not denying you anything. i'm stating my opinion. been playing and paying long enough to do so.
3.) that "emulate" option isn't worth it. 2 pool powers that still isn't as good. no thanks. and yeah, i tried champions online when it first dropped. me and many other CoH subscribers. didn't hate it, didn't it luv either. that's why i'm back playing CoH. but i did like some things about the game. it happens.
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Originally Posted by plainguy
As much as Teleport in C.O. is nice PvE it is very bad in PvP and by bad I mean very exploitable.
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I wouldn't call TP the expert travel power. Yes it takes more effort to use, but it does not pay more dividends. In missions I find ss or fly better alternatives for the extra control the give. If you give an expert player the use of all three, I can't see TP coming out on top for most of the game.|
Originally Posted by Bosstone
Not necessarily. There's nothing wrong with having an 'expert' power in a group which requires more effort but pays more dividends.
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Also look at what I was replying to, TwoHeadedBoy was clearly trying to make TP sound better then it is.
Dirges
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or you could jump attack into them which has a tp and knocks them down for additional protection and does damage
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Even regular TP is invaluable in combat scenarios.
1.) Teleport into mob>Drain Psyche. |
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1. Why are you using travel powers in missions? Yes, SS gives +stealth, but close quarters also makes it a giant pain in the patella to use. And there aren't many door missions where Fly is more useful than Hover or even Teleport; Teleport is useful both where Fly is useful and where it isn't.|
Originally Posted by Dirges
I wouldn't call TP the expert travel power. Yes it takes more effort to use, but it does not pay more dividends. In missions I find ss or fly better alternatives for the extra control the give.
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2. Teleport, once the effort has been made to utilize it properly (set up the keybind and put a couple slots in it) is the fastest travel power. That's not in question. It is objectively the fastest, by a long shot. The significance of that has been diluted these days with all the changes to zone travel (the train lines merger, Midnighter Club, Ouro, and RWZ), but even now, when most of my characters travel by temp power, SS, or SJ, I definitely feel the slowness when crossing a zone that has no other shortcuts.
De minimis non curat Lex Luthor.
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Originally Posted by Bosstone
1. Why are you using travel powers in missions? Yes, SS gives +stealth, but close quarters also makes it a giant pain in the patella to use. And there aren't many door missions where Fly is more useful than Hover or even Teleport; Teleport is useful both where Fly is useful and where it isn't.
2. Teleport, once the effort has been made to utilize it properly (set up the keybind and put a couple slots in it) is the fastest travel power. That's not in question. It is objectively the fastest, by a long shot. The significance of that has been diluted these days with all the changes to zone travel (the train lines merger, Midnighter Club, Ouro, and RWZ), but even now, when most of my characters travel by temp power, SS, or SJ, I definitely feel the slowness when crossing a zone that has no other shortcuts. |
1. How is SS hard to use in close quarters, especially compared to using TP in close quarters? Yes hover is better then fly in missions, but I was just commenting on actual travel powers, and if I was running it for the mission of course I would use hover. But comparing travel powers for vertical movement for the times you need it fly out does TP by miles. I have tried to TPing to get around caves it doesn't work neard as well as fly.
2. Just being fastest does not give TP enough dividends for its clunky nature. As you said the importance of being fastest is diminished, especially when the devs are selling a team mission tp that can be used every 30 minutes.
Dirges
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Teleport: One power pick. |
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
or you could jump attack into them which has a tp and knocks them down for additional protection and does damage
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Jump attack: Has two prerequisites.
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... really? I have several that never have any sort of flight capability. With travel powers at such a low level, there's zero reason to run the bank missions unless you like badges. And why should I be bothered adding yet another temp power to my long list and generally full trays?|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
No, but you can use a Jet Pack. No character really has a reason to not be flight-capable post level 15 or so.
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Also:
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| Most of the ones who would spot you in Super Speed are likely to spot you when you try to teleport past them as well, |
Teleport, you completely bypass the space between where you are and where you will be. I've used this to advantage fairly often. For instance, giving a mob essentially *zero* chance to attack me - it was busy chasing back and forth as I TP'd from one side of it to the other. Since I never passed within range, it couldn't attack. High perception mobs? I don't have stealth for them to see through. They don't see me because I'm *not there.*
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I'll give you the other three, but Invention sets should be cherries on top, not a reason the power itself is good. And calling TP a "godsend" to Stone Armor isn't fair because it's the only travel power they can use with their two powers on.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
2. The Teleportation pool takes 4 BOTZ sets, and provides 4 possible spots for a 20% Slow Resistance.
5. Teleport is a godsend for Stone Armor players. |
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Teleport: One power pick.
Jump attack: Has two prerequisites. |
I don't like the way teleport works now for several reasons:
1) Lengthy animation times. Seriously, this is a travel power. The fact that is can be used to deliver an attack vie porting into a mob is a side-effect, not some benefit there should be trade-offs paid for.
2) The End cost is horrendous. No other travel power can burn you OUT of End with typical use. Yes, it's faster but not THAT much faster.
3) The interface is clunky, keybinds and all. Btw if you need a special keybind to make a power work well then the power is flat-out badly designed. My primary problem with this is the fact that Teleport always takes you to the maximum range or to the target point but no place in between. If you could mid-air port with the use of the scroll wheel it would improve the power greatly IMHO.
The Teleport Pool has some good utility but truth be told I like most of the utility powers more than I like using Teleport itself.
"Comics, you're not a Mastermind...you're an Overlord!"
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If you run Positron part 2, you'll automatically be granted a jet pack temp power when you arrive at the Faultline dam mission. There's no need to specifically run a bank mission in order to get the early jet pack.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
... really? I have several that never have any sort of flight capability. With travel powers at such a low level, there's zero reason to run the bank missions unless you like badges. And why should I be bothered adding yet another temp power to my long list and generally full trays?
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You don't need a special keybind. I drop teleport onto the same spot that I drop all my travel powers -- first slot on my second tray. My second tray has the keys Q-W-R-T-Y-U-I-O-P mapped to it, so using teleport is as simple as Q, click, Q, click. I actually prefer that to the shift keybind since you don't have to hold the key down in order to teleport.|
Originally Posted by Comicsluvr
3) The interface is clunky, keybinds and all. Btw if you need a special keybind to make a power work well then the power is flat-out badly designed.
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With the default key mappings, you could put it in the first slot of the first tray and use the '1' key to teleport, which is almost as convenient.
Teleport is only clunky if you try to use it by clicking on the icon, but it's hardly the only power that is clunky for clickers.
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Originally Posted by OneWhoBinds
This would be what I want in a teleport power, too. However, I am rather certain that the CoH game engine cannot support this kind of Teleport power. Heck, I'm not sure more advanced MMO game engines could support this kind of teleporting.
See, the true ideal for the power would be if the game slowed down to a crawl while the teleporter used the ability, giving them ample time to choose where they are going. But that can't work in an MMO - or at least, I can't see how that would work. The only way I can see to improve TP in the meantime is a faster cast time. (Really, that was what killed TP for me, more than anything else. I direct my next jump, but I still hit the ground before the teleport would activate. I don't want to have to take Hover on a 'Porter, dang it!) I'd also appreciate an animation that was less... bright... but that's a cosmetic issue, and up there with wanting alternate animations for the Pool Powers. |
Try using the Vorpal Incarnate Power. That power casues you to teleport to all targets in a cone in front of you and kick them all and then come back.
So as to the mechanics....this game already has it.....and if you want to see something even better...do the TPN trial with Mealstrom and be outside trying to stop the seers from hypnotizing the civilians.....I think thats pretty night crawler-esque
So as for advanced games...this game can do it...i dont think any others can though....since other game engines mostly stack 3d on top of the 2d thus the reason they dont allow flight everywhere and have flat ground areas with imposed trails....ie cannot go in a straight line to get where you want...they may give you a seamingly 3d experience of flying the dragon or bird or ferry over somehwere...but in truth that area around you isnt actualy the game world...as you cant interact with it in those games. Thus they dont really have cells on other cells...so they couldnt produce the effects at all.
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It only appears to do that. You never actually leave your location though. It does look cool and has that Teleporting feel, but it's no substitute for a power that actually moves you and attacks.
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Originally Posted by PsychicKitty
Try using the Vorpal Incarnate Power. That power casues you to teleport to all targets in a cone in front of you and kick them all and then come back.
So as to the mechanics....this game already has it.....and if you want to see something even better...do the TPN trial with Mealstrom and be outside trying to stop the seers from hypnotizing the civilians.....I think thats pretty night crawler-esque |
The dissenters in this thread seem to be putting forward the argument 'teleport has uses, and therefore should not (can not?) be improved'
I think the point is not that teleport is useful, it's that teleport in this game does not reach the level of fun and general utility that the other travel powers do as a result of a few potentially alterable characteristics:
The forced hover - a band-aid added in years ago to prevent people from falling in dangerous zones that makes you virtually immobile after you teleport (aside from teleporting again). This is a clunky fix that helps teleport for long distance zone travel, sometimes, on lowbies. The cost is not worth it in my mind as it makes teleport considerably less versatile indoors and hampers you when you try to fine tune your navigation.
The long animation time: compare to shield charge or spring attack - powers that teleport faster and better than teleport itself. Standing there, flexing your muscles for two seconds and then appearing somewhere else essentially unable to move is just less than a teleporting superhero should be capable of. At least in my opinion.
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What is your solution to this? The forced Hover is needed so you do not fall, it is possible the full stop is necessary to overcome the high momentum TP gives (not sure if that last is true). You can't just handwave it away, the Hover has to exist, so how would you make it work?|
Originally Posted by danomal
The forced hover - a band-aid added in years ago to prevent people from falling in dangerous zones that makes you virtually immobile after you teleport (aside from teleporting again). This is a clunky fix that helps teleport for long distance zone travel, sometimes, on lowbies. The cost is not worth it in my mind as it makes teleport considerably less versatile indoors and hampers you when you try to fine tune your navigation.
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Originally Posted by danomal
The long animation time: compare to shield charge or spring attack - powers that teleport faster and better than teleport itself. Standing there, flexing your muscles for two seconds and then appearing somewhere else essentially unable to move is just less than a teleporting superhero should be capable of. At least in my opinion.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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1) make the hover function at actual hoverspeed or run speed instead of essentially the speed floor .|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
What is your solution to this?
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2) provide +stealth instead of +fly
3) make the hover optional. TP was not impossible to use by any stretch when it did not include the hover. The average COH user likely has a much faster connection than s/he did in 2004 and lag is probably not the problem it used to be. I know it rarely happens to me and I play on high population servers.
4) make it shorter - less time immobilized would help. It is longer than it needs to be. I realize this is an opinion. Some people are not fast at executing powers.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Now you are just being silly. Neither of those powers will continuously TP you anywhere, therefore they are NOT faster and better than TP. They have slightly shorter animations, which is a very different thing. I'd still be happy if they reduced TPs cast time, but making ridiculous statements isn't likely to help the cause.
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Their animations are not only 'slightly shorter' (25% apparently) they do not root you in place after you teleport. These are not insignificant advantages when mobility and flexibility are necessary.
Please don't call my ideas silly. I know this is the internet and all but you know, this is a good, friendly game with a good, friendly community.
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Oh you mean like the 5th power from the super jump pool or lightning rod or maybe the shield power set one.|
Originally Posted by ketch
It only appears to do that. You never actually leave your location though. It does look cool and has that Teleporting feel, but it's no substitute for a power that actually moves you and attacks.
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All of those are teleport attacks.
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Yes, all of those powers move you from point X to point Y. With Vorpal judgement, you activate it at point X and end at point X.
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Originally Posted by PsychicKitty
Oh you mean like the 5th power from the super jump pool or lightning rod or maybe the shield power set one.
All of those are teleport attacks. |
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If I drive to Tokyo and then back, I moved but I end up where I started. Is Vorpal like that, there and back, or do you actually not move? The power description suggests that you move, but haven't actually tried it.
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Originally Posted by ketch
Yes, all of those powers move you from point X to point Y. With Vorpal judgement, you activate it at point X and end at point X.
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This, so much of this! I hate that hover when i Teleport using my Black/White Dwarf form on my Kheldians. It feels so awkward when my HUGE dwarf is hovering for a second...He's a dwarf, He's not supposed to fly. He's supposed to stomp and rampage.
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Originally Posted by Codewalker
If the animation were sped up, and there were a way to break out of the hover -- or disable it altogether by talking to Null the Gull even -- I would be a very happy camper.
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Vorpal is just a cone attack that uses yourself as the target. It doesn't actually teleport you anywhere.
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Originally Posted by Beelzy
If I drive to Tokyo and then back, I moved but I end up where I started. Is Vorpal like that, there and back, or do you actually not move? The power description suggests that you move, but haven't actually tried it.
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It is as CW says. Shield Charge, Lightning Rod, and Spring attacks all have a mag 1 Teleport as part of the power (the same as Teleport itself). Vorpal has no teleport mechanism. If you have Hasten and watch closely, you'll see that the glowing buff on you hands never leaves your location when you use Vorpal. You just become invisible for an instant.
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Originally Posted by Codewalker
Vorpal is just a cone attack that uses yourself as the target. It doesn't actually teleport you anywhere.
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1.) TP is fine. I love it how it is, even in combat situations. Not that I'd be super upset about a faster cast time and lower end cost.
2.) If you don't like TP, don't take it. Personal distaste for a power is no reason to deny the possible uses that other people have found for it.
3.) If you like CO Teleport (not really sure why you bother with that game or it's teleport, but to each their own) then you can easily emulate it with Fly + Invisibility and leave my Teleport alone.
@Rorn ---- Blue Baron ---- Guardian