Two powers that USED to be cool
I love spamming my AoE immob. Stops KB dead, and annoys control freaks.
OMG, THIS!!
Why do trollers DO this? Really, what possess them to spam AoE immobs? There are half dozen very good reasons NOT to use this except in select situations, and yet on every team, there seems to be an immob-happy troller totally oblivious to the fact that this is not helping any team past level 12. Aarrgh! Understand, I say this as one who loves to play Controllers most of all. Oops, that hit a nerve. Sorry for temporary thread derailment. /endrant |
--Rad
/whereami:
![](http://avatars.cohtitan.com/signatures/cgt/u74.png)
This may speak pretty badly of my personality...
But whenever I'm tanking and someone gets overzealous with their powers, I'll let them go at it, get insta-killed by the spawn, and THEN go about my normal tanking moves. :P Getting their rear handed to them typically helps them understand that they're doing something wrong. |
Then I boot the player that's been goofing off for being a lazy mooch instead of getting in there and participating with the rest of the team.
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
Elude is another good example. Most of my SR toons have defense in high 60's w/o ever needing elude. Shoot, I don't remember the last time I took a t9 armor click. I can build around almost all of them.
|
I'll agree on Granite Armour, and I'll extend this to the whole of Stone Armour. I hate the whole set. It's mediocre at best without Granite Armour, costing FAAAR too much to run for the protection it gives, while Granite Armour essentially makes three quarters of the set pointless to take. I dislike that this power disables the other toggles and I REALLY dislike that, at least on a Brute, it's essentially balanced by annoyance. Yeah, you'll be hard to kill, but good luck doing much of anything. Yes, the drawbacks can be overcome, but that just makes it all the more pointless to add drawbacks in the first place. You can't overcome the Unstoppable crash, you can just mitigate it somewhat, but if you're in a situation where you NEED Unstoppable (and I have been, quite often), then having most of your health and all of your endurance fly out the window is a pretty solid death sentence.
I guess it's better than it was before when Granite Armour used to kill your accuracy, instead of your rechange, but still.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
-------
Hew in drag baby
Yes, the drawbacks can be overcome, but that just makes it all the more pointless to add drawbacks in the first place. .
|
It is just easier to chew on inspirations than to use the t9. Moreover, since you can convert, it makes most sense to just autoconvert with a macro to get the inspirations your char needs most at any given time. As a result, the added defense, resist, damage, or other bits are all renedered useless by your ability to convert inspirations to what you need to survive.
The two exceptions to this are crashless nukes and self-rezes, both of which do not nuke your ability to continue fighting when the effect wears off.
-------
Hew in drag baby
Ice Slick really should have something extra though. It trades the -ToHit Earthquake has for a bit more slippyness. Some useful debuffage would be good (I think -damage as no Controller primary has that and it's a nice counter to the -toHit in quake). That or a Chance to Stun or something (something like Shadow Field but with Stuns)
|
Chance to Stun or -Damage or -Defense or ALL THREE would make a great deal of sense for Ice Slick. The other problem is that Ice Slick cannot take ANY IO sets. I Proc the heck out of Freezing Rain, which also has great debuffs in addition to the slippery stuff, but Ice Slick gets nada.
My first 50 is Ice/FF, who got to enjoy Multiple Jacks for 3 days before ED went active. I also have a 50 Ice/Storm and am leveling an Ice/Time, so I really concur that Ice Slick could use some love, because the Immobers are gonna Immob, so at least let Ice Slick debuff or something like Freezing Rain does.
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
This may speak pretty badly of my personality...
But whenever I'm tanking and someone gets overzealous with their powers, I'll let them go at it, get insta-killed by the spawn, and THEN go about my normal tanking moves. :P Getting their rear handed to them typically helps them understand that they're doing something wrong. |
I like the times when everyone can just go crazy with powers and have fun without needed any sort of tanking strategy.
I just go in and unload damage with everyone else and taunt when needed.
I play a character with tanking abilities to keep the team alive and control the situation when needed...not to be the center of attention.
Also..."getting their rear handed to them" typically means you're doing something wrong as a tank.
I disagree 100%. There are chars, like dark doms, which can leverage a very significant amount of control with their immob, including -tohit, -fly, -immob, and some damage to boot. While you complain as a tanker that you cant herd them, maybe you should consider there is no need for you to herd them, but simply taunt and engage, The game is not all about taunt-herd-kill. There are multiple ways to engage the foe, and the significant amount of control a dom under dom can leverage more than makes up for the inconvenience of you having to walk 3 feet from mob to mob. For sure, your taunt has an aoe, so they are all focused on you anyway.
|
there are multiple ways to engage the foe and the immobilize just ruined most of them
Wow, I don't remember this. It's funny to think on what has changed!
|
Oh, and Rooted used to literally root you to one spot. Self-immobilize with the exact same effect as Stone Cages. You think Granite Armour is bad now? Before it was even worse. You want status protection? Have at it. Now you can't move! Forget street curbs and low running speed, you couldn't move AT ALL.
Granite Armour makes sense for Stone Armour as it was back in 2004. When your only status protection rooted you on the spot and you could only run one toggle at a time, then having this Tier 9 great power which gave you almost all protections AND status protection while allowing you to move, albeit slowly, was a great trade-off for most of your accuracy. You weren't supposed to run it all the time, but it was there when you got in situations with too many damage types and effects.
Now, though? Now the set is kind of weak without Granite Armour because the toggles aren't that strong AND being able to run four armour toggles plus Rooted PLUS Mud Pots just puts too much of an endurance strain for what it does, exactly because the set was not designed to have all shields run at the same time and nothing was ever done about it. Like Stone Armour, Dark Armour was designed with mutually-exclusive shields, but soon after they were made concurrent, Dark Armour shields were reduced in cost significantly. I believe down to 0.19 from 0.26. Sure, Cloak of Fear is still hideously expensive, but that's Cloak of Fear for you.
Yeah, this stops me from taking 90% of the tier9s. I just hate doing something doing something doing something and then getting flattened because I used a tier9 in a panic.
|
Now, yes, the crashes are harsh, but it's kind of to the tune of the powers - you get three minutes of extreme survivability, so you BETTER have killed what was threatening you by then. The game gave you a generous window of opportunity, so if you fail... Well, you have only yourself to blame. Besides, with power blinking, it's easy enough to tell when a T9 will drop. Unlike other click effects, T9s start blinking LONG ahead of time, I think at least 30 seconds early or some such.
Again, they're not ideal, but they give you a fair chance. Compare that to, say, Blaster Nukes which pretty much pull your pants down after you use them. If you don't kill everything, you're vulnerable, and there's no way in hell the game will let you kill everything in a single shot every time. Blaster Nukes are designed to be a gamble, and one that the game loads against you. God Mode powers are an opportunity, Nukes are a roll of the dice.
And that's NOW. Before, they used to stun you for five seconds after you used them.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Now, yes, the crashes are harsh, but it's kind of to the tune of the powers - you get three minutes of extreme survivability, so you BETTER have killed what was threatening you by then. The game gave you a generous window of opportunity, so if you fail... Well, you have only yourself to blame. Besides, with power blinking, it's easy enough to tell when a T9 will drop. Unlike other click effects, T9s start blinking LONG ahead of time, I think at least 30 seconds early or some such.
Again, they're not ideal, but they give you a fair chance. Compare that to, say, Blaster Nukes which pretty much pull your pants down after you use them. If you don't kill everything, you're vulnerable, and there's no way in hell the game will let you kill everything in a single shot every time. Blaster Nukes are designed to be a gamble, and one that the game loads against you. God Mode powers are an opportunity, Nukes are a roll of the dice. And that's NOW. Before, they used to stun you for five seconds after you used them. |
-------
Hew in drag baby
-------
Hew in drag baby
You know what power used to be really cool? Energy Transfer, then it got bludgeoned to death with a nerf bat from hell.
Virtue: @Santorican
![](http://i.imgur.com/dmfLZ.jpg)
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Ok, catch is, if you are in a vicious fight with an AV or giant monster, you may not whack it before your 3 minutes is up. I totally agree with the bit on nukes. You said it very precisely.
|
Take my fight with Marauder on my Titan/Inv Brute, for instance. Titan Weapons is all Smashing damage, and Marauder is highly resistant to Smashing damage, becoming damn near immune when he uses his Unstoppable. He hits pretty hard, so it was difficult for my Brute to just outlast the guy for the whole fight AND the three minutes it takes for his Unstoppable to crash... So I beat him at his own game. I stood my ground until Marauder fired up his Unstoppable, then I waited. Around a minute later, just when I was running out of inspirations, I fired up mine. For the next two minutes we kept hitting each other without any real progress. Then Marauder's Unstoppable dropped and drained all of his endurance. He still put up a fight, but I had over a minute left on mine, which was more than enough to beat his now non-resistent ***.
"God Modes" aren't really "I Win" buttons and they still come with their dangers, pitfalls and limitations. However, they're still a decent tool if you plan ahead for them. They may not be great, but they're not really bad as such. Not to everyone's tastes, sure. I can get behind that. But even despite the crash, there are still uses for them, and still situations where they help tremendously.
Fallacy. Most AOEs have a diamater sufficient to handle grouping of a 0/8 spawn, excluding some pbaoes. However, many pbaoes even have a diamater sufficient to tag all mobs in a 0/8 spawn anyway without them moving. If you disagree, then I suggest you do some testing.
|
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
there is an invention diversification, being a cap on the number of times a set bonus applies.
otherwise you'd probably see some really wacky builds (like actually applying slots to Brawl) designed to reach S/L defense cap on every AT just using IO bonuses. Probably already possible, actually, with the right amount of cash.
otherwise you'd probably see some really wacky builds designed to reach S/L defense cap on every AT just using IO bonuses. Probably already possible, actually, with the right amount of cash.
|
I have an Invulnerability/Ice Melee tank that hits the Smashing/Lethal defense softcap without using any toggles. Though, I didn't slot brawl to accomplish it.
there is an invention diversification, being a cap on the number of times a set bonus applies.
otherwise you'd probably see some really wacky builds (like actually applying slots to Brawl) designed to reach S/L defense cap on every AT just using IO bonuses. Probably already possible, actually, with the right amount of cash. |
Both ED and the GDN came about because of pretty much the same reason - people were reaching their caps for various stats by themselves, making both T9 God Mode powers and, more importantly, DEFENDERS pointless. There were a couple of arguments at the time asking "Why would you need a Controller to hold stuff when you could get a Blaster to just kill stuff outright?" (City of Blasters) and what you needed a Defender for when his or her buffs did nothing for you.
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
I understand containment. However, past the mid-20's, any decent troller should have ample tools from which to select that a) set up containment, and b) actually do something useful.
|
![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
![Big Grin](images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
There were a couple of arguments at the time asking "Why would you need a Controller to hold stuff when you could get a Blaster to just kill stuff outright?" (City of Blasters) and what you needed a Defender for when his or her buffs did nothing for you.
|
![Frown](images/smilies/frown.gif)
I have since rolled Blasters to 50 who probably would have killed everything outright, but I never got to enjoy Blaster Godhood Back In The Day. I did get a pretty cool screenshot of about 200 of Chimera's ninjas chasing a tank as I hovered above, though, before those days, too, passed into history.
And yet I don't really feel I was cheated, since I have never conceived of my heroes as being all-powerful Superman types, but rather more like Spider-man: very formidable, but hardly all-powerful. And I also enjoy teaming and figuring out how to interact with the other heroes on the team to solve particular problems. Usually the team is happy to let me Wormhole the Nems out of the Multi-Platform Room of Death into the hallway with my Grav Controller, unless Leeroy Jenkins is playing. Leeroy just is not happy unless he can rush in willy-nilly and bludgeon everything without a second's thought and always walk away smiling.
Not me. That is why I am fond of Ice Slick and Freezing Rain and my Elec/Time Controller who can slow the baddies down and/or put them to sleep while draining them of all their power. It is not always 100% effective, and that is the challenge. How do I solve the problem if solo, or how do we leverage the team's abilities to solve the problem? That is a big reason I am still here 7 years later.
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Taunt.
When I first got it...it was very cool...being able to control the agro like that...keeping all the enemies attention.
Then, after many missions, arcs, TFs, etc...it became the single most boring power.
I still use it...as it is still extremely useful (mechanically)...but I absolutely hate it. It's such a ridiculous power...terribly immersion breaking...but unfortunately a necessary evil for those wanting to tank.
Fallacy. Most AOEs have a diamater sufficient to handle grouping of a 0/8 spawn, excluding some pbaoes. However, many pbaoes even have a diamater sufficient to tag all mobs in a 0/8 spawn anyway without them moving. If you disagree, then I suggest you do some testing.
|
sands of mu
umbral torrent
many if not most cones have a hard time getting a lot of foes in the area if they are spread out.
if my most you mean fireball and rain powers, then use
but pbaoe's and cones - no
Why do trollers DO this? Really, what possess them to spam AoE immobs? There are half dozen very good reasons NOT to use this except in select situations, and yet on every team, there seems to be an immob-happy troller totally oblivious to the fact that this is not helping any team past level 12. Aarrgh!
Understand, I say this as one who loves to play Controllers most of all.
Oops, that hit a nerve. Sorry for temporary thread derailment. /endrant
If I'm on a team with an Ice or an Earth I move it though (unless I'm on my plant because Plant can't help it anyway, Creepers and Flytrap also have AOE immobs, plus Plants does decent damage). I have a few Ice Dominators so I understand what a pain in the **** it is to have someone Fire Cage your Patch. Most depressing is when it's an Earth Control person doing it : "You should know better! *sob*"
Ice Slick really should have something extra though. It trades the -ToHit Earthquake has for a bit more slippyness. Some useful debuffage would be good (I think -damage as no Controller primary has that and it's a nice counter to the -toHit in quake). That or a Chance to Stun or something (something like Shadow Field but with Stuns)