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Not sure what you mean with the anti-client deal. What I am getting at is the ability to earned everything in the game that is offered in the market. Just like the new ATO's the devs could in fact provide alternate in game ways to earn these items. It is a quite simple concept that they already use and should now be extended to those outliers as they are not needed to sweeten the Supergamble Packs to stimulate sales.|
Originally Posted by OneFrigidWitch
Don't you think this is a very anti-client thing to say? When people burn tokens points and cash to get something you can get by _just doing the same thing_, why should they make it easier? The wolf is considered a bonus, not the main focus of the packs.
If you think it is so important to buy the wolf, it should be the cost of 19200 points. Thats 24 packs at 80 points * 10 (1 in 242 packs). I would feel this is appropriate, because it is the _only_ cost you can offer it without the superpack audience feeling ripped off, just like you feel ripped off when they buy SBEs. Door swings both ways. |
People are going to still buy the packs and allowing alternate means for earning the outliers is not going to hurt those massive sales.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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gratz
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Originally Posted by onefrigidwitch
this. Reward tokens are kind of precious. You never know what might show up. Points stuff; well, you can always buy points or just use free points.
Edit: I made 1.7 bil off merits/converters i got from my packs. I am happy. :d interestingly, i have hoarded my inf... First bil in 8 years of playing. |
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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Especially since folks are asking to be able to buy them off the market, so those sales are still going to go to the market.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Not sure what you mean with the anti-client deal. What I am getting at is the ability to earned everything in the game that is offered in the market. Just like the new ATO's the devs could in fact provide alternate in game ways to earn these items. It is a quite simple concept that they already use and should now be extended to those outliers as they are not needed to sweeten the Supergamble Packs to stimulate sales.
People are going to still buy the packs and allowing alternate means for earning the outliers is not going to hurt those massive sales. |
Blazara Aura LVL 50 Fire/Psi Dom (with 125% recharge)
Flameboxer Aura LVL 50 SS/Fire Brute
Ice 'Em Aura LVL 50 Ice Tank
Darq Widow Fortune LVL 50 Fortunata (200% rech/Night Widow 192.5% rech)--thanks issue 19!
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I'll add to the anecdotal numbers - I had all but the chest and shard cannon in my first 6 (? maybe 7, don't have the excel here) packs. I got both of those in the same pack over the weekend, my 16th (I bought the 24 pack special but have been spacing out opening them. Spreads out the fun, gives me something extra to look forward to. Usually open them in threes, I have six left.)
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Originally Posted by Lothic
Anecdotally speaking I got all but one of the Elemental Set parts in my first 11 packs. I got the last part in my 17th pack.
From what I understand that was fairly "typical" since they were pretty heavily weighted. I'll let Arcanaville worry about the numbers that'll likely corroborate that. |
Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
Was one of those that got super lucky, Black wolf pet in the very first pack of cards I ever opened 
, just been using whatever spare PP I have around for them, they're fun but I don't see them as worth the cash.
COH/CoV - Virtue
8 Ball - Lev 50 Kin/Energy Defender
The Canadian Fist - Lev 50 Ice/EM Blaster
Omega Ghost - Lev 50 Robo/Dark MM
Ghostfall - Lev 50 Arachnos Crab Soldier
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
The fact that you do this for fun is terrifying.
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Originally Posted by Texas Justice
The fact that she also makes it look easy is stupefying.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Math is easy:
 QED |
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
Dark_Respite's Farewell Video: "One Last Day"
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
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378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
I just bought them with rewards since there was nothing else to spend them on. THAT has got to inflate their total -- If people have all the costume sets they want, what ELSE are they going to do. Bank them HOPING eventually to have a new costume set ? Or go ahead and use them now?
Personally with all the reward merits I got, I'd suspect that the market saw a flush of recipes that otherwise it might not have gotten cashing those in on reward rolls.
Even if I keep 3 for Mecha costume sets, I've still got 2 or 3 left over now. And I still haven't gotten that elemental order chest piece... *sigh*
Running City of Heroes Panel - Dragon*Con 2012 MMORPG track
I would test this but considering I don't feel the need to spend money on points which I believe I should have gotten up front for a yearly purchase and having to wait there is nothing game breaking about the superpacks that I can't live without. The few I have opened have earned me the costume pieces, No blackwolf, in Beta it took 33 flips, I understand thats rare. I would consider it more worth while if i could get malstroms pistols recipe, that I would would spend points and rewards on.
AV
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by Star Ranger 4 WIN LOSE OR DRAW, WE WILL FIGHT. WE ARE HEROES This is what we DO! |
Decide that this will be another day in which you Walk The Talk.
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Sentinel Of Liberty SG
There's questions of whether something is useful, and then the question whether its useful enough to warrant buying it. For me, Super Packs aren't useful enough to warrant my spending extra on the random inclusion of things I don't really need. Are they useful? Sure. Useful enough? Not to me. (Note: I am referring only to myself, and making no claims whatever about how valuable Super Packs might be to other players.)
While I like the costume pieces, I'm not willing to spend points on them randomly, despite the high weighting towards getting them. If they make the costume sets in Super Packs available for direct purchase, I'll probably buy them, but don't want them badly enough to pay extra for the bundling with other goods and/or the chance of not getting a piece.
ATOs are available in-game, which I lobbied hard for, because the random factor involved in getting a set them was going to be a lot higher than that for costume pieces.
Store-bought Inspirations? Certainly nicer than standard ones, but I don't need them, as I literally have 50-100 of every T3 inspiration in the game socked away in a base. (Actually 100-200, since I have that on both Hero and Villain sides.)
Unslotters and Enhancement Boosters I do use, but again, I'd rather buy a quantity of them outright. I can also get a pretty good supply of them from Reward Tokens.
And Reward Merits... Well, I'm sure I could put them to some use, but here's a screenshot from a fairly representative example of my eleven level 50 characters.
(Bear in mind that an Astral Merit can buy many of the things a Reward Merit can, at a roughly 6.25:1 conversion ratio.)
Obviously, someone who plays less than I do, or who lacks the kind of access to high-merit-rate activities I enjoy access to (like multiple Hamidon Raids per week or lots of speed TFs) would get more use from bags of Reward Merits than I do.
Obviously, someone who plays less than I do, or who lacks the kind of access to high-merit-rate activities I enjoy access to (like multiple Hamidon Raids per week or lots of speed TFs) would get more use from bags of Reward Merits than I do.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Interesting stats for the 600,000.
I wonder if it would be worthwhile to figure out the average per-account purchace number? I seem to recall that CoH sits around 125,000 to 150,000 active accounts... but I might be massively (heh) misremembering that figure.
That would suggest a pretty small number of Packs per account, though - only 4 or 5 on average. As it seems from what people are saying in this thread, the actual number purchased (for those doing so) is substantially greater than that, we might be able to assume that a pretty fair percentage of the playerbase actually didn't buy these...
(For example, if the 'typical' purchaser bought 20 Packs, that would be approximately 30,000 buyers, or about 1/5 of the 150,000 accounts. Of course, this could all be vastly off.)
Can someone check either my numbers or my assumptions to see if I'm way off base here?
I'm neither knocking or cheering the Packs at this point (I've got one major gripe, which I've hashed over ad nauseum elsewhere), I'm just interested in the way the numbers seem to be landing.
"Strength of numbers is the delight of the timid. The valiant in spirit glory in fighting alone."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Still CoHzy after all these years...
Quote:
Yah....none of the 'repeatables' look like a good use of tokens to me.|
Originally Posted by SwellGuy
None of mine. I save the Reward Tokens for things I cannot get any other way.
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My rule 'don't waste merits on stuff you can buy with inf' applies here too- don't waste tokens on stuff you can buy with anything else.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
The original argument was that the superpack design was so problematic they would likely fail. Now the argument is going to be that since they are successful, its safe to tamper with their design?|
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
Great, cool, they are a resounding success, so it shouldn't hurt now to have a alternate way to get the costumes outside of them, since they clearly dont need the costumes pieces held hostage for their success. anything to report there zwill?
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I have always felt a little jealous about logical arguments that work no matter how many of their premises are negated, because I could never construct them myself.
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I do buy with Merits things I can't buy any other way, but I also buy things that Merits are the most per-unit efficient way to buy, and use the inf saved (or earned if I sell the item) to buy cheaper things.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Yah....none of the 'repeatables' look like a good use of tokens to me.
My rule 'don't waste merits on stuff you can buy with inf' applies here too- don't waste tokens on stuff you can buy with anything else. |
Similarly, I can buy things like Enhancement Boosters or Unslotters with Tokens or Paragon Points, but I can't buy powersets or most costume pieces with Reward Tokens. I also tend to consume points for new powersets and costume pieces faster than I consume them for "consumables". So I'm better off spending points on powersets and costumes and tokens on my occasional need for consumables.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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that was never my argument(nor, if i recall, true gents or snow globe's), in fact i had originally complained that the superpack concept had already been shown to be a solid financial earner in multiple eastern mmos but it also served to permanently lock away things of value from players who did not gamble. We knew it would make money, but in doing so it would lead to a loss for players who just want the costume set. this premise has not only not been negated but it has been given more weight because now we dont even talk about alternate means of buying the costumes, its just assumed that if its in the super-pack, its locked away behind the gamble.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
The original argument was that the superpack design was so problematic they would likely fail. Now the argument is going to be that since they are successful, its safe to tamper with their design?
I have always felt a little jealous about logical arguments that work no matter how many of their premises are negated, because I could never construct them myself. |
For those of us who just want the costume set and nothing but the costume set, something that in most other instances was 400 points, having one arbitrarily be held away from players in a system where one would possible have to pay out around 6 times that to get it was something a number of us did not want.
A hope was floated by zwill that alternate means to get thoes costume sets would be available in the future, since he was around, I figured i'd ask him about it.
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Well, actually my argument was that the Super Packs should be allowed to succeed or fail based on player reception of the mechanic, rather than using the crutch of much-desired exclusive costume pieces.|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
The original argument was that the superpack design was so problematic they would likely fail. Now the argument is going to be that since they are successful, its safe to tamper with their design?
I have always felt a little jealous about logical arguments that work no matter how many of their premises are negated, because I could never construct them myself. |
As this argument holds equally well regardless of the Pack's success, it's premises weren't negated.
To put it another way, given what we know, would the second Super Pack succeed substantially if it doesn't include exclusive costume items?
I don't know. And I don't think the Devs do either.
That means that they have the choice of putting exclusive content into the second (and each subsequent) offering, or risking their success. As I, personally, don't like exclusivity in costuming, this seems like a bad situation to be in.
Unless, of course, it was decided ahead of time that Super Packs Would Not Fail!
"Strength of numbers is the delight of the timid. The valiant in spirit glory in fighting alone."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Still CoHzy after all these years...
Quote:
So wait, you think they're cheating by adding stuff people want to a system that depends entirely on randomly awarding stuff people want?|
Originally Posted by Tetsuko_NA
Well, actually my argument was that the Super Packs should be allowed to succeed or fail based on player reception of the mechanic, rather than using the crutch of much-desired exclusive costume pieces.
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An interesting proposition!
Would that the devs were brave enough to play fair! =P
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| Unless, of course, it was decided ahead of time that Super Packs Would Not Fail! |
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I attribute my approach to the relative trouble I have earning merits (pre-Super Pack, anyway- I now find myself sitting on something of a stockpile!) vs the relative ease I have earning effectively infinite Inf.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
I do buy with Merits things I can't buy any other way, but I also buy things that Merits are the most per-unit efficient way to buy, and use the inf saved (or earned if I sell the item) to buy cheaper things.
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I guess I could boil it down to buy stuff with the most common currency you can efficiently earn...
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
That's like saying the content in this game should succeed or fail without the crutch of awarding XP.|
Originally Posted by Tetsuko_NA
Well, actually my argument was that the Super Packs should be allowed to succeed or fail based on player reception of the mechanic, rather than using the crutch of much-desired exclusive costume pieces.
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The Super Pack "mechanic" is its design, in totality, from the method of award to the details of its contents.
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Quote:
No, they are "cheating" by taking a specific thing that previously have been purchaseable at a set price and gating it behind a mechanism that forces them to pay several times more for the thing they want by randomly awarding other things that may or may not have value to the purchaser. For a not insubstantial number of players like myself, we want costume sets, and we have paid the price the market dictated several times now without complain..ok, its the internet, so there was tons of complaint and irrational hyperbole and threatened canceled accounts by people who have been "canceling their accounts" for years now, but still we paid for the goods. we now see goods that may be of use to us, but its locked behind a mechanism that is several times more costly. and that strikes us as arbitrarily punitive. I dont want atios, nor catylists, nor merits, nor a vanity pet, i just want the damn costume, why am i spending upwards of 30 bucks for it?
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
So wait, you think they're cheating by adding stuff people want to a system that depends entirely on randomly awarding stuff people want?
. |
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Then how did they survive the decision to allow alternate ways of getting atios? they already altered the design and the system did not die, if the system would fall apart if they began offering the exclusive costume set after a 3 month period of exclusivity, then the system must be horribly conceived.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
That's like saying the content in this game should succeed or fail without the crutch of awarding XP.
The Super Pack "mechanic" is its design, in totality, from the method of award to the details of its contents. |
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Not cheating but that they cost themselves both:|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
So wait, you think they're cheating by adding stuff people want to a system that depends entirely on randomly awarding stuff people want?
An interesting proposition! Would that the devs were brave enough to play fair! =P |
A) the chance to see of the playerbase would be interested in the Super Packs on their own merit (I suspect they would, but I dunno) as opposed to being interesting primarily due to content that cannot be accessed in any other manner - and that they specifically said (at the time) there were no plans to release in any other way (they may have reversed this position since then... which, of course, has the potential to open up a different can of worms).
...and...
B) the chance to sell the EO costume pieces seperately to players that wanted them without the other items in the Super Pack.
I'm not sure where you got some notion of 'cheating' from, though.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Yes, this is clearly the work of the Illuminati.
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Many other times they have gated content behind a single function, it has drawn the ire of the playerbase. I was hoping they'd avoid it this time.
"Strength of numbers is the delight of the timid. The valiant in spirit glory in fighting alone."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Still CoHzy after all these years...
Quote:
Well, taking a big picture view the answer is because you want the game to stay in business so you can keep playing it.|
Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
No, they are "cheating" by taking a specific thing that previously have been purchaseable at a set price and gating it behind a mechanism that forces them to pay several times more for the thing they want by randomly awarding other things that may or may not have value to the purchaser. For a not insubstantial number of players like myself, we want costume sets, and we have paid the price the market dictated several times now without complain..ok, its the internet, so there was tons of complaint and irrational hyperbole and threatened canceled accounts by people who have been "canceling their accounts" for years now, but still we paid for the goods. we now see goods that may be of use to us, but its locked behind a mechanism that is several times more costly. and that strikes us as arbitrarily punitive. I dont want atios, nor catylists, nor merits, nor a vanity pet, i just want the damn costume, why am i spending upwards of 30 bucks for it?
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This is why, back in the day, I'd buy whatever booster packs they cooked up, even if they were lame (looking at YOU, Party Pack!)
The little picture view is because CAPITALISM.
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My City Was Gone
Quote:
This statement is totally nonsensical.|
Originally Posted by Tetsuko_NA
Not cheating but that they cost themselves both:
A) the chance to see of the playerbase would be interested in the Super Packs on their own merit (I suspect they would, but I dunno) as opposed to being interesting primarily due to content that cannot be accessed in any other manner - and that they specifically said (at the time) there were no plans to release in any other way (they may have reversed this position since then... which, of course, has the potential to open up a different can of worms). |
Their "own merit" is THE STUFF IN THE PACKS.
It's as simple as
Stuff People Want In Packs = Winning
Stuff People Hate In Packs = Losing
Constructing the most super-terrific delivery mechanism ever invented would be a complete waste of time and resources unless they seeded the system with a bunch of super cool stuff players really wanted.
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| B) the chance to sell the EO costume pieces seperately to players that wanted them without the other items in the Super Pack. |
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| I'm not sure where you got some notion of 'cheating' from, though. |
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| Um, okay... I was just speculating that it's possible that whomever in the Dev team that was advocating the Super Packs (which might have been all of them, I have no idea), came up with the exclusive content as a way to help ensure that the Packs might sell even if the playerbase didn't like the actual mechanic. |
The entire point of the exercise is to encourage players to buy packs by including "exclusive content" as you put it.
I'm not sure why you insist on putting the cart before the horse.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
That is a non-sequitor.
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Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
Then how did they survive the decision to allow alternate ways of getting atios? they already altered the design and the system did not die, if the system would fall apart if they began offering the exclusive costume set after a 3 month period of exclusivity, then the system must be horribly conceived.
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If you think it is so important to buy the wolf, it should be the cost of 19200 points. Thats 24 packs at 80 points * 10 (1 in 242 packs). I would feel this is appropriate, because it is the _only_ cost you can offer it without the superpack audience feeling ripped off, just like you feel ripped off when they buy SBEs. Door swings both ways.
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Hew in drag baby